Syncroniq said:
Greets!
Not without doing the math or reconstructing Ed's sim, though if he doesn't mind, he can post the impulse response if he still has it, but I don't need to know it as long as it's < ~0.7 (T/S max flat) and I don't see much in the way of vent generated HF 'hash' in the response. Not that even these are apparently much of an issue based on how 'fast'/'tight' folks claim the Onken alignments.
Not that there's anything wrong with comparing step responses to help find the 'fastest'/'tightest' sounding systems, but horns typically claim this 'title', yet have some of the worst looking step response plots imaginable if not full size 'ideal' alignments that best even a 0.5 Qtc sealed alignment, so pardon me for not being much interested in them in my considerations.
Of course the room and where the speakers are located in it will ultimately determine whether it still sounds 'tight' due to what the summed response is, but either vent damping and/or a lower tuning can solve any LF 'bloom' and raising Fb may be desirable if there's not enough room gain to fill in any 'thinness' in the lowest octaves.
As always though, YMMV.
GM
I hope these provide the information requested in a usable form. These are from the speaker "as built". The response here is a little different. I chose to dial the response back on the low end. I get a little more SPL in exchange for less low bass response. This simulation includes a total of 0.267 pounds of stuffing. I built it with a lining of 1" fiberglass, knowing I could add stuffing if needed. I haven't chosen to yet.
Johnnz, If you are interested in Scottmoose's or my alignment I think the biggest difference is port size. Mine is larger diameter and longer. I chose that combination to avoid port noise as much as possible.
Syncroniq, I think it would be revealing to subject one of your BR's to evaluation using Martin's worksheets.
Yeah, it's a 2in diameter, but air velocity in the vent is still well below the mach, so it shouldn't be an issue. You can use a wider / longer vent for it of course; 3in x 6in should do the job.
"You've lost me. What has the distance of the tweeter from the top of Zaph's original box got to do with the TL I did?"
Nothing. I stand corrected. As I said,I was confused.
😉
Scott,I have one more question about the TL you did. What is the Septum length?
Thanks 🙂
Nothing. I stand corrected. As I said,I was confused.
😉
Scott,I have one more question about the TL you did. What is the Septum length?
Thanks 🙂
I have purchased the speakers and plywood. Still waiting on the septum length for Scott's TL v .2. To begin construction.😎
As in the length of the sloping internal baffle? Terminates 6.625in from the internal base, in the middle of the cabinet, naturally, which will put each face the same 6.625in distance from the internal face of the front & rear cabinet walls. Don't forget the 2.5in deep gap in the top of the rear baffle that serves as the open terminus of the line BTW, as per the rough drawing above. And if you wanted to mount the tweeter centre 10.25in down from the internal top BTW, like in Zaph's cabinets, feel free. It's only a minor change & won't audibly affect the response.
Let us know how you get on. I reckon this should be a rather nice speaker, all things considered.
Let us know how you get on. I reckon this should be a rather nice speaker, all things considered.
Johnnz,
You could do much worse than to begin with Martin J King's 2-way OB with Eminence Alpha15A and Fostex FE103E documented here: http://www.quarter-wave.com/OBs/OB_Design.pdf . I think it would prove much more high-end than you and others perhaps think. 😉
/Erling
You could do much worse than to begin with Martin J King's 2-way OB with Eminence Alpha15A and Fostex FE103E documented here: http://www.quarter-wave.com/OBs/OB_Design.pdf . I think it would prove much more high-end than you and others perhaps think. 😉
/Erling
Blast. Correction to above. Just noticed a typo; it's 6.25in, not 6.625in. That said, it's nothing to panic about as it won't make an audible difference, but I wanted to correct it when I noticed.
Well, it seems that the topic disappeared. Probably because of your uninterest, Johnnz. And in fact I don't blame you. Advice were intriguingly difficult to sort out. Just have a look at the Thread.
/Erling
/Erling
And who are you to criticise? Quite a few people here spent a goodly amount of time (considerably more than you did) trying to assist John with different ideas that might suit his needs for a nice, simple, effective, floorstanding loudspeaker project based on well proven design principles. If you're complaining that there were lots of possible designs in the thread, why did you introduce another yourself?
Look at the different suggestions made, any of which would likely suit John's specified requirements:
1) TJL
2) NatalieP MTM
3) A Seas Thor (though it was noted that this cabinet isn't ideal -there are several other designs for the drivers + XO that an interested party could easy find with a search)
At this point, John was advised to avoid a poor design he was contemplating.
4) BAMTL.
There then followed a brief discussion about different drivers, as John appeared to contemplate designing his own XO, rather than building a proven design.
5) I then went to the trouble, since TLs were under discussion, of designing a TL cabinet for the aforementioned BAMTM that would suit the stated requirements, and avoid the need to design an XO or try to mix & match / adapt an existing one.
John changed his mind at this point, worried by myth he'd heard from other sources that TLs are ~hit & miss & seemed to be contemplating a hybrid box using a mix of drivers & XO.
6) Synchroniq offered an alternative BR box that might suit.
7) Ed & I also offered further alternative box suggestions.
8) You suggest an OB.
That's plenty of choice, any of which would suit his requirements (one notable exception), along with good advice to avoid a couple of poor design, along with other useful tips, and information, so John has certainly benefited from it. And as a pair of the TL cabinets I designed for the Zaph Audio BAMTM are currently under construction, I venture to suggest that Cambe (& any other future builders of this cab. that the thread inspired) will too.
Look at the different suggestions made, any of which would likely suit John's specified requirements:
1) TJL
2) NatalieP MTM
3) A Seas Thor (though it was noted that this cabinet isn't ideal -there are several other designs for the drivers + XO that an interested party could easy find with a search)
At this point, John was advised to avoid a poor design he was contemplating.
4) BAMTL.
There then followed a brief discussion about different drivers, as John appeared to contemplate designing his own XO, rather than building a proven design.
5) I then went to the trouble, since TLs were under discussion, of designing a TL cabinet for the aforementioned BAMTM that would suit the stated requirements, and avoid the need to design an XO or try to mix & match / adapt an existing one.
John changed his mind at this point, worried by myth he'd heard from other sources that TLs are ~hit & miss & seemed to be contemplating a hybrid box using a mix of drivers & XO.
6) Synchroniq offered an alternative BR box that might suit.
7) Ed & I also offered further alternative box suggestions.
8) You suggest an OB.
That's plenty of choice, any of which would suit his requirements (one notable exception), along with good advice to avoid a couple of poor design, along with other useful tips, and information, so John has certainly benefited from it. And as a pair of the TL cabinets I designed for the Zaph Audio BAMTM are currently under construction, I venture to suggest that Cambe (& any other future builders of this cab. that the thread inspired) will too.
scottmoose,
Frankly, You are both right and wrong and you know !
OK ! Otherwise I know when I see an elk and that's quite another story.
/Erling
Frankly, You are both right and wrong and you know !
OK ! Otherwise I know when I see an elk and that's quite another story.
/Erling
What are you talking about? What do I apparantly 'know?' I'm a naval historian, actor & speaker designer, not a mind-reader.
Sigh. John posted asking for suggestions. He then recieved lots of them, with a lot of good advice, information & guidance too. Ergo, I fail to see what you're moaning about, especially given the undeniable fact that you contributed precisely nothing yourself, other than to make a suggestion of your own rather late on for an OB, which, excellent design though it is, was at best something of a wildcard given that it hardly falls under what most people would define as a floorstanding speaker, except in the broadest sense. So again I ask, what are you complaining about? Some people like sreten & myself went to considerable trouble to discuss different options & provide accurate information; I even went to the lengths of designing a new TL cabinet as a possible candidate. If you didn't like it, why didn't you join in before, and give John the benefit of your knowledge, nay, wisdom, & direct him to the dunlit upland of peace, prosperity, and audio nirvana?
BTW, do me a favour & spare me the implications of your being a go-forth Scandinavian, wiping out a branch of the moose family. I can't honestly say I'm impressed. Guess what: I'm Norwegian myself.
Sigh. John posted asking for suggestions. He then recieved lots of them, with a lot of good advice, information & guidance too. Ergo, I fail to see what you're moaning about, especially given the undeniable fact that you contributed precisely nothing yourself, other than to make a suggestion of your own rather late on for an OB, which, excellent design though it is, was at best something of a wildcard given that it hardly falls under what most people would define as a floorstanding speaker, except in the broadest sense. So again I ask, what are you complaining about? Some people like sreten & myself went to considerable trouble to discuss different options & provide accurate information; I even went to the lengths of designing a new TL cabinet as a possible candidate. If you didn't like it, why didn't you join in before, and give John the benefit of your knowledge, nay, wisdom, & direct him to the dunlit upland of peace, prosperity, and audio nirvana?
BTW, do me a favour & spare me the implications of your being a go-forth Scandinavian, wiping out a branch of the moose family. I can't honestly say I'm impressed. Guess what: I'm Norwegian myself.
Hi Scottmoose,
For once I may have given a bit cryptical answer. I will justify this by noting that Johnnz lives in New Zeeland and may have a difficulty obtaining the elements talked about regarding the different suggestions put forward. But I agree, really a Smörgåsbord. There might also be a difficulty obtaining the Eminence Alpha but i suppose Fostex would be no problem.
As for the quality of advice I am not the man to judge, but I'll absolutely stand up for my recommendation.
/Erling
For once I may have given a bit cryptical answer. I will justify this by noting that Johnnz lives in New Zeeland and may have a difficulty obtaining the elements talked about regarding the different suggestions put forward. But I agree, really a Smörgåsbord. There might also be a difficulty obtaining the Eminence Alpha but i suppose Fostex would be no problem.
As for the quality of advice I am not the man to judge, but I'll absolutely stand up for my recommendation.
/Erling
Ah, now I get you. 🙂
Yes, there were a lot of different possibilities raised weren't there. Then again, I reckon it's better to have too much than too little. 😉 FWIW, with the exception of the Seas Thor (with the standard cabinet), & based on my own experience, I'd say all the different cabinet options were good, & IMO at any rate, the advice was also sound, although perhaps it would need a little sifting.
Yes, so would I. Martin & I get on well & his OB project are excellent performers, especially considering their modest price. 🙂 I note with interest that in the UK audio circles I travel in, they're rapidly becoming a bit of a favourite, in a variety of forms.
Yes, there were a lot of different possibilities raised weren't there. Then again, I reckon it's better to have too much than too little. 😉 FWIW, with the exception of the Seas Thor (with the standard cabinet), & based on my own experience, I'd say all the different cabinet options were good, & IMO at any rate, the advice was also sound, although perhaps it would need a little sifting.
Yes, so would I. Martin & I get on well & his OB project
Hi,
TBH I cannot see the point of suggesting MJK's open baffle project
to someone who does not seem to have any real interest in it.
FWIW such posts are pointless, do not build this, build my favourite.
🙂/sreten.
TBH I cannot see the point of suggesting MJK's open baffle project
to someone who does not seem to have any real interest in it.
FWIW such posts are pointless, do not build this, build my favourite.
🙂/sreten.
Well, I am finally getting around to build the TL version of the BAMTM's. A locate cabinet shop has quoted a ball park figure of $353.00 to supply the BB
and cut it. That is pretty expensive to me. Even thought about MDF!
😎
and cut it. That is pretty expensive to me. Even thought about MDF!
😎
Gee whiz! I feel guilty not to have checked up on this thread I started since my last post. Thanks for all your suggestions and considered advice. I have not lost interest in pursuing this project (sheesh! Nearly two years now since I first posted), but spent my limited budget for audio projects on rebuilding an old computer into an audio source with solid wood cabinet I made at my work. (see here. pictures near last page). This project involved a lot less cost and is nearly finished now and from there I plan to start making some speakers.
Now, I am pretty sure I will have enough funds in the next few months to order drivers and crossover components and am still looking at the options mentioned here: namely, the Nat. P. or the dearer though rather alluring TL design Seas Thor.
Rather felicitously, New Zealand now has a company selling quality speaker parts for the DIY enthusiast (Hasaudio Speaker Components - Suppliers of Speaker Components, parts and Speaker Kits.), as I just found out from their advertisment on this website a couple of days ago. They can supply parts for either of the two projects on my shortlist (above). The price of the Thor is however twice that of the Nat. P. (I will make my own cabinets.)
There is definitly something particularly appealing about making a TL design since they are rather uncommon and 'special' in that regard.
I have gathered that the original Seas Thor has been redesigned. Not sure if this is just the XO, drivers, or cabinet dimensions, or a combination of these, but would much appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction (link to official website/thread) of the "best yet" Thor design - or "best value for money" Thor design. (not sure how many variations are out there now.
Thanks again for all the help, sorry I didn't check back in till now.😱
Now, I am pretty sure I will have enough funds in the next few months to order drivers and crossover components and am still looking at the options mentioned here: namely, the Nat. P. or the dearer though rather alluring TL design Seas Thor.
Rather felicitously, New Zealand now has a company selling quality speaker parts for the DIY enthusiast (Hasaudio Speaker Components - Suppliers of Speaker Components, parts and Speaker Kits.), as I just found out from their advertisment on this website a couple of days ago. They can supply parts for either of the two projects on my shortlist (above). The price of the Thor is however twice that of the Nat. P. (I will make my own cabinets.)
There is definitly something particularly appealing about making a TL design since they are rather uncommon and 'special' in that regard.
I have gathered that the original Seas Thor has been redesigned. Not sure if this is just the XO, drivers, or cabinet dimensions, or a combination of these, but would much appreciate if someone could point me in the right direction (link to official website/thread) of the "best yet" Thor design - or "best value for money" Thor design. (not sure how many variations are out there now.
Thanks again for all the help, sorry I didn't check back in till now.😱
Try this project from Peerless drivers designed by,
PEERLESS-NOMEX-164
get the drivers from this site:
Europe Audio - Home page
drivers are far cheaper than those sold in Australia, 4 mid woofers and 2 tweeters about $450 plus postage plus xover and cabinet.
Cheers happy building.
PEERLESS-NOMEX-164
get the drivers from this site:
Europe Audio - Home page
drivers are far cheaper than those sold in Australia, 4 mid woofers and 2 tweeters about $450 plus postage plus xover and cabinet.
Cheers happy building.
Holy Necromancer, I don't mean to dredge this conversation back up, but I currently own 4 dayton dc175's an have been wanting to design a TL line around the BAMTM... were there ever any mocked up plans or a physical / working model ever put together? If so, I'd very much like to hear about it...
Cheers,
ross
Blimey, this is one from the past.
No builds of the TL enclosure as far as I'm aware, but here's the plan + MathCAD plots. You'll probably need to adjust the damping, since not all Dacron stuffing is created equal, but trimming the line damping is not difficult & part of TL development anyway. If you want a bit more on the bottom end (at the expense of a bit more harmonic ripple), remove from the last 10in or so of the line & adjust from there.
As John points out, this system is limited by the power-handling ability of the bass drivers; RMS deflection is at the higher end of moderate so it's not one for high levels. Still, the TL keeps things smooth; FR, impedance, GD and impulse responses are what you'd expect. Keep the stuffing away from the drivers / give them a bit of breathing room or it may mass-load the diaphragm / suspension, causing some midband distortion.
I should stress: this box was done by me, not John; he has not endorsed it (and probably isn't aware of it) in any way, shape or form, so there is no support. It should be a nice enough box of its type, but there is only one way to know for sure.
No builds of the TL enclosure as far as I'm aware, but here's the plan + MathCAD plots. You'll probably need to adjust the damping, since not all Dacron stuffing is created equal, but trimming the line damping is not difficult & part of TL development anyway. If you want a bit more on the bottom end (at the expense of a bit more harmonic ripple), remove from the last 10in or so of the line & adjust from there.
As John points out, this system is limited by the power-handling ability of the bass drivers; RMS deflection is at the higher end of moderate so it's not one for high levels. Still, the TL keeps things smooth; FR, impedance, GD and impulse responses are what you'd expect. Keep the stuffing away from the drivers / give them a bit of breathing room or it may mass-load the diaphragm / suspension, causing some midband distortion.
I should stress: this box was done by me, not John; he has not endorsed it (and probably isn't aware of it) in any way, shape or form, so there is no support. It should be a nice enough box of its type, but there is only one way to know for sure.
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