Purely anecdotal, so of very limited value, but being an old fart I've run across a few instances of mental health issues, and some diagnosed individuals.
Young men, usually in their twenties, can start to manifest issues. One guy I knew, Senior Watch in his school (like a Prom King, or whatever you call it where you live), straight A student, athlete, the works. One day he paints all the walls in his rented apartment black. Ceilings too. His father reached out to me for some ideas to deal with him and his other symptoms.
Under medication today, perfectly normal citizen, a talented artist, in his late 40's or maybe even early 50's now. Not a problem for him or anyone else, actually.
An old girlfriend, her brother was diagnosed Bipolar. Died in his sleep at 46 during a depressive state (he usually had 3 days of manic and a week or two of depressive). Under medication but a difficult case to manage. Saw his states many times.
Another girlfriend, only this time it's her. Strong woman, good job, kids at home still. One day she starts stuttering. A few weeks later she's skipping consonants and vowels, and a little more she's skipping the words too. Essentially it came to the point where she couldn't talk, although she would try, it was just unintelligible.
Got some meds (good job paid for leave) and got better, today she is very high up in her organization, no further episodes, no meds anymore.
Sister of my boss, comes up to the lake for a visit. Stands at the end of the dock, staring down into the water, for hours at a time. Like, eight hours if anyone let her. Drove her brother half mad with worry. I went down and talked to her a few times, she wasn't actually acting strange other than this water thing, but we all feared she would just jump and we might not get there in time.
Got some meds, she's fine now, apparently.
Now, the way our minds work, if you believe something you will always act as if it were fact, regardless of the actual situation. So people with issues are scary. We had one guy here in Canada who started beheading people on a Greyhound bus. Bipolar.
Got some meds (in what is essentially a prison psychiatric facility) and they say he's fine as long as he takes them. People don't like that he's getting day passes and unescorted absences after something like six years in custody, but his doctors say it's OK.
So there is a political aspect, a safety aspect, and a treatment aspect to that one, but the point being if you get in the news, you will be followed, which can be a problem.
I grew up during the "cocaine era" where all of a sudden it became easy to source. Some people I know could have at it recreationally and that would be that. No effect in their day-to-day lives, or long term health.
But, and you could never tell beforehand who these people would be, every once in a while someone would try and that would be it. Business gone, houses gone, you name it. And still that would not get them to stop, even after everything was gone.
Same with pot, only less common. Some people could not carry on without it, and used it multiple times a day, while others could take it or leave it.
So, recreational drugs can be dangerous. I really doubt some of the stories (I've never seen it) whereby people have life-altering mental issues because of it. It's always been in my experience something that already existed and would have come out one way or another, their lifestyle simply being a reflection of their personality (perhaps risk-taking behaviour) which put them in situations where some recreational drug was available to them.
I don't believe any issues they may have had beyond a dependency were induced by smoking this or that.
Anyone could be a victim of a mental health issue. Claims that triggers induced it in cases where it otherwise would never have arisen I find suspicious and an attempt to evade personal responsibility for the condition.
Of course catastrophic trauma or abuse, especially during formative years (before age 25) definitely can be a huge contributing factor, but in my experience (anecdotal, again, let's not forget) it's just a normal part of human psyche and should be seen as such, not blamed on some convenient demonized object or voluntary (trauma-free) experimental drug use.
Regardless, the takeaway is, help is out there. At least where I live it is.
Young men, usually in their twenties, can start to manifest issues. One guy I knew, Senior Watch in his school (like a Prom King, or whatever you call it where you live), straight A student, athlete, the works. One day he paints all the walls in his rented apartment black. Ceilings too. His father reached out to me for some ideas to deal with him and his other symptoms.
Under medication today, perfectly normal citizen, a talented artist, in his late 40's or maybe even early 50's now. Not a problem for him or anyone else, actually.
An old girlfriend, her brother was diagnosed Bipolar. Died in his sleep at 46 during a depressive state (he usually had 3 days of manic and a week or two of depressive). Under medication but a difficult case to manage. Saw his states many times.
Another girlfriend, only this time it's her. Strong woman, good job, kids at home still. One day she starts stuttering. A few weeks later she's skipping consonants and vowels, and a little more she's skipping the words too. Essentially it came to the point where she couldn't talk, although she would try, it was just unintelligible.
Got some meds (good job paid for leave) and got better, today she is very high up in her organization, no further episodes, no meds anymore.
Sister of my boss, comes up to the lake for a visit. Stands at the end of the dock, staring down into the water, for hours at a time. Like, eight hours if anyone let her. Drove her brother half mad with worry. I went down and talked to her a few times, she wasn't actually acting strange other than this water thing, but we all feared she would just jump and we might not get there in time.
Got some meds, she's fine now, apparently.
Now, the way our minds work, if you believe something you will always act as if it were fact, regardless of the actual situation. So people with issues are scary. We had one guy here in Canada who started beheading people on a Greyhound bus. Bipolar.
Got some meds (in what is essentially a prison psychiatric facility) and they say he's fine as long as he takes them. People don't like that he's getting day passes and unescorted absences after something like six years in custody, but his doctors say it's OK.
So there is a political aspect, a safety aspect, and a treatment aspect to that one, but the point being if you get in the news, you will be followed, which can be a problem.
I grew up during the "cocaine era" where all of a sudden it became easy to source. Some people I know could have at it recreationally and that would be that. No effect in their day-to-day lives, or long term health.
But, and you could never tell beforehand who these people would be, every once in a while someone would try and that would be it. Business gone, houses gone, you name it. And still that would not get them to stop, even after everything was gone.
Same with pot, only less common. Some people could not carry on without it, and used it multiple times a day, while others could take it or leave it.
So, recreational drugs can be dangerous. I really doubt some of the stories (I've never seen it) whereby people have life-altering mental issues because of it. It's always been in my experience something that already existed and would have come out one way or another, their lifestyle simply being a reflection of their personality (perhaps risk-taking behaviour) which put them in situations where some recreational drug was available to them.
I don't believe any issues they may have had beyond a dependency were induced by smoking this or that.
Anyone could be a victim of a mental health issue. Claims that triggers induced it in cases where it otherwise would never have arisen I find suspicious and an attempt to evade personal responsibility for the condition.
Of course catastrophic trauma or abuse, especially during formative years (before age 25) definitely can be a huge contributing factor, but in my experience (anecdotal, again, let's not forget) it's just a normal part of human psyche and should be seen as such, not blamed on some convenient demonized object or voluntary (trauma-free) experimental drug use.
Regardless, the takeaway is, help is out there. At least where I live it is.
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I'm sensitised to the synthetic drugs doctors peddle.
Which makes life interesting as I suffer from depression and social phobia.
My 'cure' is a very healthy diet, extreme sports and mental control learnt through martial arts.
BACK on Topic.
Some one posted about getting a flattie to comment on this thread.
A good friend of mine fits the bill (snow globe 'world', gravity and friction are a myth etc etc) so I asked him.
"Oh no, I'm not going to do that, whats the point in trying to convert people who live the lie so deeply."
LOL.
Well, at least he understands "preaching to the converted".
Diet is critical to health, mental or physical. Marshal Arts are excellent therapy, not just exercise. Good for you. I have trained but don't now. Maybe if things continue to improve I can take it up again.
When I wake, I take 11 meds. A few more during the day. These are for physical health. I know what you mean by sensitivity to one or another, my meds are now doing a great job (I have no working pancreas, my thyroid is barely functioning, and there are a couple of others that affect day-to-day, including one mystery condition that still needs to be figured out) but it took about four years to get that settled.
Thank the Good Lord I live where I do, in a province that has the best health care in Canada. My "bill", which is covered, is well beyond $800K. Note to Americans: Canada does not have a national health care system. Each province is free to provide the Health Care it feels appropriate. If they follow the Canada Health Act (Federal) a province gets a cheque for about 15% of a province's health care costs.
The Canada Health Act says basically a medical provider is either in the system or out, but you can't be both (public and private). If you're in the system you accept the payment schedule (negotiated with doctors regularly) in full, without charging extra. If you're out, have at 'er, bill whatever you want, but the patient or his insurance has to pay it, no public money can be made available.
So there are private clinics, even hospitals, but most people use the public system. If a province so chose, they could offer zero Health Care if they wanted, and the cost would be that 15% cheque wouldn't show up in the mailbox. Which they wouldn't need anyway, since the cost to the taxpayer would be zero.
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I consumed weed and many other substances almost daily for 20 years, age 17 to 37. They were the most productive and creative years of my life. I have suffered from what we now call ADD or ADHD all of my life, and still deal with it. Weed offered a 1 to 4 hour period of "focus" where I could actually think about or do something for more than 5 minutes before my mind darted off into another direction.
My parents tried the usual medical treatments available in 1960, but most were worse than the disease. At age 10 I was removed from public school and sent to a special school for misfits......that just taught me how to be a better misfit. That ended when another misfit whacked me in the head with a baseball bat. After a hospital stay it was back to (a different) public school.
I do believe that some people have adverse reactions to weed. There was a girl at work who tried it for the first time at one of the big parties thrown by some co-workers. She went into a hysterical fit that took a couple of hours to resolve. She was never the same, afraid of everyone and everything. She quit the job a few months later and we never heard anything else. Was it the weed, or was it the weed combined with the unusual circumstances. Some of those parties got way out of hand, and eventually ended with a death......the lifeguard hired to manage the drunks and druggies in the swimming pool drowned! Seems that he took some Quaaludes and dove into the shallow end, breaking his neck.
My parents tried the usual medical treatments available in 1960, but most were worse than the disease. At age 10 I was removed from public school and sent to a special school for misfits......that just taught me how to be a better misfit. That ended when another misfit whacked me in the head with a baseball bat. After a hospital stay it was back to (a different) public school.
I do believe that some people have adverse reactions to weed. There was a girl at work who tried it for the first time at one of the big parties thrown by some co-workers. She went into a hysterical fit that took a couple of hours to resolve. She was never the same, afraid of everyone and everything. She quit the job a few months later and we never heard anything else. Was it the weed, or was it the weed combined with the unusual circumstances. Some of those parties got way out of hand, and eventually ended with a death......the lifeguard hired to manage the drunks and druggies in the swimming pool drowned! Seems that he took some Quaaludes and dove into the shallow end, breaking his neck.
From the little I know and it is very little you can retrain the brain to give you back your identity. I was wrongly treated for Parkinsons, our most expensive scanner in Oxford ( 4.5 tesla I think, general types 1.5 tesla ) and a radioactive substance costing the same as a nice motorcar proved the problem is in the wrong place to be Parkinsons. I receive no treatment now and can drive my car again. I can relate to what you say. It was the need for money that brought me back to near enough where I was. Each day is now a joy. I do have a Parkinsons like tremor that makes soldering fun. It should be impossible, somehow I manage. I even did a small SMD multipin the other day, mind over matter I would say. At the pub I take one drink at a time to friends, sometimes two on a good day. I can get half way and an uncontoled side to side motion starts. Again I seem to be able to control it if I really try. After 5 years I can even write a little by hand. One day it was the best writing of my life! If only that was every time. I'm 61 and mostly very happy. I even have been doing building work. Somehow I can force myself if I must and feel over the Moon at the smallest thing. Because I plan better I even do it as quick or quicker these days. Also I seem to be able to switch off when a hammer or hand saw.
Could you maybe get a lab equipment mount for the soldering iron and make up some kind of press (like a drill press) mechanism which pushes the iron down onto the board? then point it downwards and then hold the board in place with a home made vice.
Just a thought 🙂
Great idea as I have a very nice made in the USA Delta press. I have a standard 6 x 8 foot shed that is for all the World a lab and workshop. I made some chokes this week as it's task.
Funny you should say about that. On YouTube is Bigclive. He was using a similar idea to get it right. This is not his usual output. Try Poundland LED lamps for Clive at his best.
YouTube
By the way. It was no real action on my part to get well except the need for money. I remember at the time when I couldn't drive to get my friend to teach me the basic function of a transistor again. The group thought I was being dramatic. I had built a simple current limiter and found it didn't work, it was an Internet standard circuit ( shorting the base ). On reflection the ones we usually see don't really work as well as we hope. I was very surprised to see a Quad 303 power amp has an even more simple circuit and surprisingly it works fine. In relearning I think I have learnt how things really work. Sometimes when I am driving a question that has been bugging me pops in my head. It's never a danger as somehow I can hold the idea. It's like having a key to a door, I don't need the whole building.
If you drop into my usual thought prosess Flat Earth is something I think about and then ask myself could it work. I have very little worry if it is right or wrong. I just like pulling it apart. From the word go Flat Earth is hyper complex and can not be made to work. A ball of hot rocks cools down in a near OK sphere and grabs some water etc. Yes, that looks possible.
One odd thing is before joining DIY I had never written as much in my previous whole life as I did the first week. Whilst it is not easy I keep trying. I am the first to realise I make it hard for the reader. It's the best I can do. I would liken it to good enough if woodwork for the garage, but not for the house.
There was one Flat Earth time when someone proved the impossible. The impossible being that Electronics World would allow the subjective sound of capacitors to move forward to something that could be defined by science. Like the Higgs particle we moved forward.
http://www.waynekirkwood.com/images...an_Understanding_Capcitors_EW_August_1998.pdf
Funny you should say about that. On YouTube is Bigclive. He was using a similar idea to get it right. This is not his usual output. Try Poundland LED lamps for Clive at his best.
YouTube
By the way. It was no real action on my part to get well except the need for money. I remember at the time when I couldn't drive to get my friend to teach me the basic function of a transistor again. The group thought I was being dramatic. I had built a simple current limiter and found it didn't work, it was an Internet standard circuit ( shorting the base ). On reflection the ones we usually see don't really work as well as we hope. I was very surprised to see a Quad 303 power amp has an even more simple circuit and surprisingly it works fine. In relearning I think I have learnt how things really work. Sometimes when I am driving a question that has been bugging me pops in my head. It's never a danger as somehow I can hold the idea. It's like having a key to a door, I don't need the whole building.
If you drop into my usual thought prosess Flat Earth is something I think about and then ask myself could it work. I have very little worry if it is right or wrong. I just like pulling it apart. From the word go Flat Earth is hyper complex and can not be made to work. A ball of hot rocks cools down in a near OK sphere and grabs some water etc. Yes, that looks possible.
One odd thing is before joining DIY I had never written as much in my previous whole life as I did the first week. Whilst it is not easy I keep trying. I am the first to realise I make it hard for the reader. It's the best I can do. I would liken it to good enough if woodwork for the garage, but not for the house.
There was one Flat Earth time when someone proved the impossible. The impossible being that Electronics World would allow the subjective sound of capacitors to move forward to something that could be defined by science. Like the Higgs particle we moved forward.
http://www.waynekirkwood.com/images...an_Understanding_Capcitors_EW_August_1998.pdf
I understand that such allergies/sensitivities and consequent neurological/behavioural effects are rather more common than what you give credit for.
I also understand that gut microbiota is key in mental/physical health conditions good or adverse.....there is much research reinforcing this including research indicating gut bacteria flora modification/restoration can reverse autism symptoms in mice.
Antibiotics have much to answer for in respect of destroying health giving gut bacteria allowing adverse bacteria to dominate and continue.
Pesticides, most certainly Glyphosate are spectacularly guilty in causing deleterious modification of gut bacteria and a wide range of consequential effects.
I know this from personal experience and have had to go to much effort in order to ag chemical detox and progressively restore my gut health...still a work in progress but an interesting one never the less.
Dan.
Dan. I think I read some autistic people lack an enzyme that causes some foods to give alcohol like reactions. I speculate that they may only be autistic due to this. Diabetic people can seem to be drunk which might be a simialr thing, they may well die if left that way.
My ex went to a Japanese doctor. I did a bit of research. All he really was doing was telling her to eat what any Japanese person would. He was a quack although I did like the food. Most food fads are often placebo type things.
My ex went to a Japanese doctor. I did a bit of research. All he really was doing was telling her to eat what any Japanese person would. He was a quack although I did like the food. Most food fads are often placebo type things.
I do wonder if the splurge in popularity of conspiracy theories, at best, and downright falsehoods at worst correlates with the qualities of American education. Causation and the proliferation of youtube (internet in general) aside, to me it appears that falsehoods like the "flat earth" hypothesis demands a wider stage than its merit justify. And somehow I have the impression it's americans that are behind much of it.
Conspiracy theories can be entertaining reading; a good portion of this thread has been quite amusing. The flat earth notion is entertaining in the sense that it is, to my knowledge, one that is easier to hold to a scientific standard with ample opportunities to test the hypothesis -and its alternate form -through the scientific method.
The crux of my abhorrence is the disregard for the scientific method in some areas while using the fruits of the same methodology to undermine established knowledge. Where would the smartphone, tablets and computers of this world be if not for the accumulated knowledge acquired through the centuries?
It would be damn hard to connect around the globe to prophesy the world as flat when you have to shout to be heard and traverse the ground on foot to get in range. I guess some people should just be protected against themselves.
ikek.
Conspiracy theories can be entertaining reading; a good portion of this thread has been quite amusing. The flat earth notion is entertaining in the sense that it is, to my knowledge, one that is easier to hold to a scientific standard with ample opportunities to test the hypothesis -and its alternate form -through the scientific method.
The crux of my abhorrence is the disregard for the scientific method in some areas while using the fruits of the same methodology to undermine established knowledge. Where would the smartphone, tablets and computers of this world be if not for the accumulated knowledge acquired through the centuries?
It would be damn hard to connect around the globe to prophesy the world as flat when you have to shout to be heard and traverse the ground on foot to get in range. I guess some people should just be protected against themselves.
ikek.
One very good engineer I know of is said to be able to clear a pub in five minutes. He has very clear reasoning and a rather unusual manner. Given a free choice most people would rather he just went away. I could well believe if not fictional the man who walked on water would have been very similar. Repecting wise men is like a casino, it seems if the person proves his point the ones who matter will follow the ideas. The rest are like rather dangerous sheep.
Flat Earth is basically a "troll" version of a real conspiracy theory. In the, lets say facebook groups, there are 98% trolls. 1% is dumb enough to believe it. 1% are the "victims", that come in to tell everyone they are stupid.
The trolls then try to convince the person with facts.
I have joined the fray for a week, but then it got quite boring. Even made some Photoshop "proof".
Flat Earth Insanity: Flat Earth Follies: Magic Fish-Eye Holes in Airplane Windows
Thats my - I only posted in ONE FB group. It sort of ... "accelerated" to "truth" real quick.
Even one percent of people believing something as simple as a sphere earth to be false is mind boggling. Then again if intellect is distributed (normal?) or similar type distribution then some are bound to be in the lower folds of intellect. Further, how does mental disturbances play into the fold. The motivations for the proliferation of such conspiracies is worthy a sociological study or ten.
It is not a positive accomplishment that the internet economy enables peddling of such theories for a monetary gain. Is it perhaps fair to say the Googles of this world has its fair share of the blame whilst making a dime on it.
A quick google search lead to a Time list of 10 of the worlds most enduring conspiracy theories. On the list at least five are directly related to the USA; I do wonder if that is a coincidence or not.
ikek.
OTOH, I would think that it was worse a few centuries ago. People believed all kinds of things that could not be proven at all. Witch trials anyone?
So it might be a human condition to believe things on the strength of a good story and a trusted person (religion anyone?).
If that is the case, why would the internet and free factual information change any of this?
After all, the scientific method is very unnatural to most people. Trying to proof yourself wrong as a test of facts? Really?
Jan
So it might be a human condition to believe things on the strength of a good story and a trusted person (religion anyone?).
If that is the case, why would the internet and free factual information change any of this?
After all, the scientific method is very unnatural to most people. Trying to proof yourself wrong as a test of facts? Really?
Jan
No joke, the education level plays a huge role. 80% (pulled out of my ***) of problems in our lovely country would disappear if we would put real money into education.
Conspiracy theories can exist in a culture like America, because the "double speak" and propaganda methoda are abound.
Citizens of the United States are "free" - at least that is what they parrot. In reality, most people are in a state of "non-relaxation". Constantly worrying about job security, medical insurance, money for college, social security.
This state means people are not "comfortable" in their own country.
Powerless to change events from the news, powerless to influence anything.
People feel powerless. Once this sets in, simply answers to complex problems become very attractive. They lift people into a position of power. They are important. Being important, dropping names, pretending to be "someone". All cultural problems that play into it.
One agent changes / explains world events, even unrelated ones, simply by talking.
Thing is, through this propaganda and "news", a picture is painted that the USA really is the "guy that does whatever". As long as this belief exists, conspiracy theories "can" be true.
A benefit is that people will actually do positive things too, simply create things / products / services that are innovative and new. Because we can.
In some other (Europe) countries, with most problems of security taken away, means they also won't take chances with innovation. It could endanger their security, taking chances is a uncalculatable risk.
If you have nothing to loose, you WILL innovate or DO something.
+1
The book, The Righteous Mind, by Jonathan Haidt is a pretty good summary of research about some aspects of human nature as a product of natural selection. Also, there is an extensive bibliography and author notes section for readers wishing to dig down deeper. Hadit sees it a lot like Jan has outlined.
Daniel Kahneman's book, Thinking Fast and Slow, also talks a lot about the power of stories and the property of coherence that makes people feel confident the stories must be correct.
There are many other well-researched books and articles as well that similarly summarize the scientific evidence in this area.
Unfortunately, there are also some books and articles that are mostly made-up stories to cash in on popular interest in the subject. My opinion, of course.
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The accumulated knowledge at the time and a general lack of education severely limited people's position to challenge established doctrine. When some of history's greatest scientific accomplishments came about they diverged vastly from what was preached at the time. If the church, or other learned institutions, preached the earth flat, tellus the centre of the universe with the sun rotating around it or for that matter that it is 6k years old. The average person would have no credible means of challenging such views if so was desired. And I think it is fair to characterise as quite the uphill battle for those revolutionary thinkers.
If somebody today attempts to assert a hypothesis that the earth is flat, 6k old etc. the avg. man has the tools at his/her disposal to fact check such positions. The internet is one such tool. An unfortunate side effect would be that like minded people gather in open or closed fora where they preach to the choir. This echo chamber should perhaps not be underestimated. As for new great scientific discoveries the application of sound research methodology and peer review should be good enough. Infallible, perhaps not, but good enough in layman's terms.
How often do people interact or apply the scientific method in their daily life? People reap the benefits of the wealth of knowledge received through its application but rarely, I would claim, use it?
ikek.
Well, its a result of the mechanics of unchecked capitalism. And you are in the UK. You all probably invemted it. 🙂
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