A smaller board (like Peter Daniel had) might be more practical:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/103535-f3-pcb-buy-3.html#post1256218
and those who want fets farther can wire them to the board.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/103535-f3-pcb-buy-3.html#post1256218
and those who want fets farther can wire them to the board.
This mostly depends of heatsink base thickness and thermal conductivity, thermal interface/grease and desired/acceptable loop sizes.
Taking in account acessibility of AlN thermal pads and copper power bus we could design a small PCB with neglible loops and easy thermal mode.
Anyway i'll prefer to remove huge output film capacitor from PCB. This will save pcb area and cost.
there is nothing with wrong with replacing a few traces with nice thick wires.
those skiny long boards prevent builds like this one:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/201281-burning-amp-ba-3b-balanced-57.html#post4794952
in which the amp warms up much faster to the optimal operating temperature; and Noctua fans cannot be heard even from a foot distance.
as we are talking already, it might be worthwhile to remind folks about a few distinct characteristics of F3: it has a lowish input impedance and low gain (so a preamp is called upon), and for the best result it calls for using a distortion analyzer to find the circuit's "sweet spot". Else, it has always been regarded as a less analytical a.k.a very forgiving amp to use with forward sounding setups like those with compression drivers and horns. Just thought I should mention..
those skiny long boards prevent builds like this one:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/201281-burning-amp-ba-3b-balanced-57.html#post4794952
in which the amp warms up much faster to the optimal operating temperature; and Noctua fans cannot be heard even from a foot distance.
as we are talking already, it might be worthwhile to remind folks about a few distinct characteristics of F3: it has a lowish input impedance and low gain (so a preamp is called upon), and for the best result it calls for using a distortion analyzer to find the circuit's "sweet spot". Else, it has always been regarded as a less analytical a.k.a very forgiving amp to use with forward sounding setups like those with compression drivers and horns. Just thought I should mention..
Koja and Bespav there are different ways to skin a cat. But not all of them can not be the best way.
There are tube amps that are wired from point to point and are silent and there are ones humming like crazy.
So I don't prefer to wire components to boards as much as possible , which deceits the purpose of PCB in first place.
About the heatsink and thermal islands yes it depends on heatsink but most of us don't want to invest in anything more expensive on a chassis than DIYaudio store one.
Nothing against Perer Daniel as his purpose of making those boards fits your ideology. Smallest foot print , easy to ship. But half of the people who bought F2 boards from me were using those boards. They told me it had humm issues and PCB degraded quickly in 2-3 years, possibly from thermal stress.
Why do you think Papa make them in long boards just to fit those big chassis , you guys think?
One can always come up with complex solutions to a simple problem. But I like to follow what Papa advocates , simplicity in design and implementation. It worked for me.
So thanks for your suggestions , I would still leave the designing part to someone one who know what they are doing,access to proper tools and limit myself to soldering components .
If there is enough supporters in 1-2 weeks I will proceed with my idea. If not someone can arrange for a group buy for your design and I will make it for myself. But expensive but I know it will work well.
There are tube amps that are wired from point to point and are silent and there are ones humming like crazy.
So I don't prefer to wire components to boards as much as possible , which deceits the purpose of PCB in first place.
About the heatsink and thermal islands yes it depends on heatsink but most of us don't want to invest in anything more expensive on a chassis than DIYaudio store one.
Nothing against Perer Daniel as his purpose of making those boards fits your ideology. Smallest foot print , easy to ship. But half of the people who bought F2 boards from me were using those boards. They told me it had humm issues and PCB degraded quickly in 2-3 years, possibly from thermal stress.
Why do you think Papa make them in long boards just to fit those big chassis , you guys think?
One can always come up with complex solutions to a simple problem. But I like to follow what Papa advocates , simplicity in design and implementation. It worked for me.
So thanks for your suggestions , I would still leave the designing part to someone one who know what they are doing,access to proper tools and limit myself to soldering components .
If there is enough supporters in 1-2 weeks I will proceed with my idea. If not someone can arrange for a group buy for your design and I will make it for myself. But expensive but I know it will work well.
none of PD's boards suffer from any ground loops (I have three different amps made with those and they are all silent). most of those issues come from improperly wired grounds outside the board.
running pcb traces to fets has no advantage whatsoever over running a twisted wire from the board.
Papa only makes those narrow long boards for a neat layout targeting a passive cooled amp with wide heat sinks. That may very well suit your plans for a layout as well, but there is no other advantage to it.
don't take me wrong. I have no particular interest in swaying your decision to suit my layouts since I am accustomed to making my own boards. I am not in the market for an F3 right now as I am awaiting the release of M2ish ACA later this year. I would only buy a pcb set if it was done in volume and to a smaller footprint.
Good Luck.
running pcb traces to fets has no advantage whatsoever over running a twisted wire from the board.
Papa only makes those narrow long boards for a neat layout targeting a passive cooled amp with wide heat sinks. That may very well suit your plans for a layout as well, but there is no other advantage to it.
don't take me wrong. I have no particular interest in swaying your decision to suit my layouts since I am accustomed to making my own boards. I am not in the market for an F3 right now as I am awaiting the release of M2ish ACA later this year. I would only buy a pcb set if it was done in volume and to a smaller footprint.
Good Luck.
Sure you can have your beliefs Koja,and let me have mine.
I just repeated what others have told me and I don't want to experiment. I don't have a reason to believe or disbelieve either parties.
I don't want to run twisted three wires to the Fet as you suggest as it does not fit the basics I know.
And my aim is same as Papa's ,a passively cooled chassis with even heat dissipation. Papa may make them just because that is the only chassis he has but they are much more capable and pricey. But like you mentioned warming up the amp is not something I am ready to accept as science.
I don't know how to design pcbs so I give that job to someone who does. May be your boards work well too and hence you may start a new thread, perhaps discussing why it is better over my long pcbs.
There are other PCBs everyone waiting on to be released . These are F3 ,nothing wrong with them. At the end this is just a hobby and I may like F1 better than your J2.
So let people who wants to make them do it, and you may keep waiting on M2ish ACA.
I just repeated what others have told me and I don't want to experiment. I don't have a reason to believe or disbelieve either parties.
I don't want to run twisted three wires to the Fet as you suggest as it does not fit the basics I know.
And my aim is same as Papa's ,a passively cooled chassis with even heat dissipation. Papa may make them just because that is the only chassis he has but they are much more capable and pricey. But like you mentioned warming up the amp is not something I am ready to accept as science.
I don't know how to design pcbs so I give that job to someone who does. May be your boards work well too and hence you may start a new thread, perhaps discussing why it is better over my long pcbs.
There are other PCBs everyone waiting on to be released . These are F3 ,nothing wrong with them. At the end this is just a hobby and I may like F1 better than your J2.
So let people who wants to make them do it, and you may keep waiting on M2ish ACA.
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Yes of course, but I think Germany should not be the first country for "landing" of the pcb.
Last impressions of the customs in Berlin (not the parcel from kinku) was that I had to pay tax not only for my pcb, I had to pay for all sets + shipping.
Here in Germany you pay for the amount off all plus the shipping costs (round 20%). Payed sum for pcb and shipping 100€ and then you pay at the custom another 20€ tax!
Last impressions of the customs in Berlin (not the parcel from kinku) was that I had to pay tax not only for my pcb, I had to pay for all sets + shipping.
Here in Germany you pay for the amount off all plus the shipping costs (round 20%). Payed sum for pcb and shipping 100€ and then you pay at the custom another 20€ tax!
