Hence my suggestion of using the same thickness and bracing it. More effective based on our experience than the brute force method of doubling the baffle thickness (more work thou).
dave
That's a pretty good price for marine.
For physical properties, it should be very similar to the marine - both are hardwood, same glue type, same strength rating.
But I'd only save the $80 if there is no downside - if, on inspection, it seems just as well made, and if you're sure your veneer will stick to it.
Dave is probably right, that bracing is better than laminating. But why not do both? Will you have any other use for the ~1/2 a sheet of ply left over?
With one full-size sheet of plywood, you could make several panels double-thick, and still have plenty of offcuts left over for bracing - sketch it out and see. The whole sheet of plywood will weigh ~35kg, so even if you use every scrap, the resulting cabinet will not be too heavy.
If you do use more than a single thickness for your front baffle, be sure to leave lots of space around the woofer, like "E" in the link.
chamfering driver holes
That's fairly expensive - is it spectacular? Link?
Depending on the look you want, you may not need to veneer the whole box.
If you veneer just the front (or use pre-veneered ply for the front panel)
and stain the rest (assuming the rest = marine ply), you could have a result like the attached images.
I personally prefer this 2-tone effect, with exposed ply edges, rather than full veneering, but everyone has their own opinions on what looks best.
My main speakers use a double layer of hardwood ply with exposed edges (and I also used plenty of bracing). My opinion is completely biased 🙂
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Damn those look very nice. What kind of veneer is that?.
This is where I can get veneer locally.
Timber Veneer Sheeting | Bunker Plywood Hobart Tasmania
Any tips on veneering.
This is where I can get veneer locally.
Timber Veneer Sheeting | Bunker Plywood Hobart Tasmania
Any tips on veneering.
DeVore Fidelity Orangutan O/96 Loudspeaker Review: Part 1
The review is full of waffle; I used CNT+F to discover that it is "fiddleback mahogany veneer". Some strand woven bamboo panels have a similar look.
I don't do veneering / have any veneering tips, but there's plenty of info on it - in other threads here, and elsewhere: DIY audio secrets blog | Tips and hints for DIY audio enthusiasts, from beginners to masters
Veneer doesn't cost a lot to ship, if you want a wider range, e.g:
Top Veneer – The Australian Online Veneer Shop
"We currently offer a stunningly low flat shipping rate of $9.95 to anywhere Australia and New Zealand"
The review is full of waffle; I used CNT+F to discover that it is "fiddleback mahogany veneer". Some strand woven bamboo panels have a similar look.
I don't do veneering / have any veneering tips, but there's plenty of info on it - in other threads here, and elsewhere: DIY audio secrets blog | Tips and hints for DIY audio enthusiasts, from beginners to masters
Veneer doesn't cost a lot to ship, if you want a wider range, e.g:
Top Veneer – The Australian Online Veneer Shop
"We currently offer a stunningly low flat shipping rate of $9.95 to anywhere Australia and New Zealand"
I'm actually I little scared when It comes to veneering.
I may get the more expensive russian birch ply and then stain that to bring out its natural grain, instead of going the more complicated route of veneering.
Alternatively, I may veneer the front baffle/panel only, while staining the rest of the birch ply cabinet.
I haven't got a quote for getting this CNC cut yet, but is there anyone who has CNC cut a similar project of a similar scale.
I may get the more expensive russian birch ply and then stain that to bring out its natural grain, instead of going the more complicated route of veneering.
Alternatively, I may veneer the front baffle/panel only, while staining the rest of the birch ply cabinet.
I haven't got a quote for getting this CNC cut yet, but is there anyone who has CNC cut a similar project of a similar scale.
I have used Baltic Birch ply which I sanded with very fine paper then used grain filler then polish, I got a very nice finish. I didn't want to change the colour and this worked well. Some BB ply is available with a better face side
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As Scott alludes, "BB" plywood can be had in a range of qualities from "shop" grade which will be very random within a lift, and can include small pin-hole knots, larger "Dutchman" patches, filled open seams between face veneer flitches, etc., to Architectural grade with select veneer species. The former can take a natural clear coat very well, but are notoriously variable in how uniformly they accept darker stains, while many of the latter are intended to be clear coated only.
Post veneering - particularly to emulate the DeVores' look is quite simply not that complicated. The DIY iron-on glue method is pretty straightforward, and it should be easy to find numerous accounts of, and even photos or videos of the process. I've been doing it for at least 15yrs, and any failures have always been due to insufficient surface preparation resulting in telegraphing of defects / joints, inadequate adhesive applied to either surface, or waiting past the "dry tack" time window.
Post veneering - particularly to emulate the DeVores' look is quite simply not that complicated. The DIY iron-on glue method is pretty straightforward, and it should be easy to find numerous accounts of, and even photos or videos of the process. I've been doing it for at least 15yrs, and any failures have always been due to insufficient surface preparation resulting in telegraphing of defects / joints, inadequate adhesive applied to either surface, or waiting past the "dry tack" time window.
The Russian Birch Ply I have access to has a A/C grade, with a A bond glue type.
Not really sure how I want to finish the Birch Plywood.
I look the look of something like Amber Shellac, but since I have so more plywood than I need, I guess I can always experiment a bit.
Another Thing, With regards to the construction of the Cabinet, Would It be better to have one of the panels (like the back), screwed In so it can be removed if needed?.
Not really sure how I want to finish the Birch Plywood.
I look the look of something like Amber Shellac, but since I have so more plywood than I need, I guess I can always experiment a bit.
Another Thing, With regards to the construction of the Cabinet, Would It be better to have one of the panels (like the back), screwed In so it can be removed if needed?.
If the opportunity is there for the damping adhesive, it works well if both are the same thickness. This damping is not a replacement for bracing, both are important.
Ken - the removable back (and even front as well) is often employed by folks like Harbeth, older Klipschs etc - sometimes for the convenience of access / rear mounting of drivers or adjusting fill levels of sound absorbent materials, other times as a stratagem in the pursuit of reducing / controlling cabinet resonance / critical panel damping.
I've done this with several builds of Scott Lindgren's Pensils, and it certainly helps with adjusting fibre fill.
I've done this with several builds of Scott Lindgren's Pensils, and it certainly helps with adjusting fibre fill.
Yes, good idea, make a removeable back and have a listen, I could be your first step on the journey to doing away with boxes entirely......
If you want to use the surface of the birch ply as your cosmetic layer, be very careful when cutting, and keep work surfaces very clean.
I tried this only once (reasonably fancy exterior grade hardwood ply with a tropical veneer). When I shifted the speaker on a benchtop that had a fleck of grit on it, it left an ugly gouge in the veneer ...so it ended up as a painted speaker.
With your small cabinets, you could easily access the interior simply by reaching through the woofer cutout, so it is hard to see what benefit a removable panel would give.
The downsides are:
- you won't be able to glue a brace to that panel
- it will be slightly weaker than a fully screwed-and glued box
- there will be a break in the veneer / a visible seam
- you might struggle to make it airtight, which is needed for a ported design
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Have you ever done this using thin panels (2-5mm) rather than a true veneer?
I'm looking speculatively at this:
Beech Laserply (1200 x 1200mm) – Plyco
and avidly at this:
Bamboo Strand Woven – Plyco
They seem like a good price, relative to veneer (under $50 per square metre).
They'd mask the defects / joints in the underlying cabinet a lot better than a 0.6mm veneer, which appeals to me 🙂
Stranded bamboo ply is a stellar material for building speakers. Not available here in anywhere as many thicknesses. We can get a veneer, 3mm IIRC. A buddy in Calgary is going to (or has) use his 10-ton press to make a plywood out of it. It should be spectacular. The regular bamboo ply is a veneer samdwhiching a block core.
dave
dave
I think their supplier is Leto Bamboo (also local) who have "a range of thicknesses from 0.6mm up to 40mm thick". They have free sample boxes; I should get one. Of possible interest to the OP: Leto Bamboo have resellers in a couple of locations in Tasmania.
The 5mm stuff is single layer, like a veneer. I guess it'd typically get laminated onto chipboard, for flooring.
They also have a 5-ply 2.5mm panel, which is $31 for a small sheet (1200*600mm). This size would be (just) enough to clad one of the OP's boxes.
If you take a closer look at the stranded bamboo ply I think you'll find the cores are still mostly stick/block core - that was certainly the case in the enclsoures I built a few years ago.
Makes for a gorgeous cabinet, but can be a bit fiddly to layout and yield can be poor if you're anal about contiguous grain / pattern wrapping around the perimeter of a large or awkward shaped enclosure.
Not to be argumentative, but re the downsides listed above by hollowboy with regards to removable back / front panels:
- You can always screw the back panel into any bracing members;
- Just how strong does the box need to be? There are several very well respected British builders who've long championed light / stiff / critically damped boxes in which removable front and back panels are integral to the design strategy. With appropriate cleating and resilient foam sealing, they can be as strong and airtight as needed;
- The visible seams / break in veneer grain can be used as aesthetic design feature;
- Re airtightness - as noted above, with full perimeter cleats and closed cell foam weather-stripping tape, the box can be sealed as much as required.
Take a look at the Harbeth line.
Makes for a gorgeous cabinet, but can be a bit fiddly to layout and yield can be poor if you're anal about contiguous grain / pattern wrapping around the perimeter of a large or awkward shaped enclosure.
Not to be argumentative, but re the downsides listed above by hollowboy with regards to removable back / front panels:
- You can always screw the back panel into any bracing members;
- Just how strong does the box need to be? There are several very well respected British builders who've long championed light / stiff / critically damped boxes in which removable front and back panels are integral to the design strategy. With appropriate cleating and resilient foam sealing, they can be as strong and airtight as needed;
- The visible seams / break in veneer grain can be used as aesthetic design feature;
- Re airtightness - as noted above, with full perimeter cleats and closed cell foam weather-stripping tape, the box can be sealed as much as required.
Take a look at the Harbeth line.
Normally Australia is a wasteland for getting good plywood, but this makes me jealous!!!
dave
Is this just for aesthetics / appearance of the end grain?
For what it is worth, I think the edge grain on these (pictured - these are yours, yes?) = a great feature.
Professor Wiki tells me: "In bending, the maximum stress occurs in the outermost layers", so I thought the inner layers didn't matter much.
e.g. surfboards have a hard shell over a relatively weak core.
?? I was asking about using 2-5mm panels as an (easier?) alternative to 0.6mm veneer. These don't have a block core.
The cross sections are shown about 1/2 way down the page:
LETObamboo – Now It’s Up To You!
The OP's project is neither, unless he changes it up dramatically.
Can you post a pic or link to the project you are describing? Totes off topic, but it sounds interesting.
Those are all fine points. I can see some merit to this style.
But you're citing a very different type of cabinet construction to the Selah Audio Tempesta that the OP is ~cloning.
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No. It should create a much stiffer board than just using them as surface layers on a block core.
Yes, Chris’ 1st build with Bamvboo and he did a superb job, and you can see where his mention of the joinery being a bit fiddly. What looks like marquetry is exposing ½ of the end grain of the board.
\\dave
This being my first build I want to keep things as simple as possible, while not making to many compromises. I'll stick with the birch plywood since I can get it locally and try and work with that.
I like what this guy did with birch ply. Photobucket
If I end up using Horizontal Braces, that would probably rule out the use of a removable back right, Since the Horizontal Brace runs the length of the interior cabinet, attaching to the front baffle and rear panel.
Also when It comes to the construction of the Speaker, Should I glue the damping material (e.g bitchumen pads) to the inside of cabinet panels before they are assembled together. It sounds kinda difficult to me, having to install the crossover and cabinet stuffing material through the woofer cutout.
I like what this guy did with birch ply. Photobucket
If I end up using Horizontal Braces, that would probably rule out the use of a removable back right, Since the Horizontal Brace runs the length of the interior cabinet, attaching to the front baffle and rear panel.
Also when It comes to the construction of the Speaker, Should I glue the damping material (e.g bitchumen pads) to the inside of cabinet panels before they are assembled together. It sounds kinda difficult to me, having to install the crossover and cabinet stuffing material through the woofer cutout.
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