Do you mean carpet the outside?
I'm realizing that the ply here in Aus for 18mm is $150+ a sheet!!! But I really don't like the look of MDF, and I wanted to avoid painting the boxes (aesthetic reasons). Maybe carpet on MDF is an option.
Anyone else have experience with this?
Paisley speaker boxes! Ohhh yeahhh. (Probably disgusting in most eyes, but that's of no concern to me)
I'm realizing that the ply here in Aus for 18mm is $150+ a sheet!!! But I really don't like the look of MDF, and I wanted to avoid painting the boxes (aesthetic reasons). Maybe carpet on MDF is an option.
Anyone else have experience with this?
Paisley speaker boxes! Ohhh yeahhh. (Probably disgusting in most eyes, but that's of no concern to me)
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I just carpet the sides. I staple the carpet to the plywood.
I paint the front black.
The back I just leave as uncovered plywood.
I have used veneered chipboard before.
I have also used chipboard and covered it in vinyl.
Here is my dual cabinet, not quite finished off here, needed carpet finishing stapled down.
I paint the front black.
The back I just leave as uncovered plywood.
I have used veneered chipboard before.
I have also used chipboard and covered it in vinyl.
Here is my dual cabinet, not quite finished off here, needed carpet finishing stapled down.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Veneer an expensive process? I was thinking maybe stained timber ply front. Carpet sides and top. Painted rear. On MDF? Aluminum edging on front edges to hide carpet edge.
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I don't know what veneered chipboard costs these days.
The last one I did was in 1980 !
Have a chat with your local DIY store.
The last one I did was in 1980 !
Have a chat with your local DIY store.
The cheapest in the UK is about £35 for a 8' by 4' sheet.
My local B&Q sells it and they cut it up for me for free.
Two places quoted the same. I did specify that I wanted void free ply or close to. So that may be a factor.
I think I'm going to source timber seperatly. Currently these are prices quoted from cabinet makers.
I've yet to wander around to hardware stores.
Cheaper options.
MDF $50 a sheet. :S
Ide rather not use MDF. But I will if I absolutely have to.
I've used various types of ply for different projects.
Baltic Birch is by far the best choice, IMO. Worth the extra cost (although I can get a 5'x5' sheet for around $60 CAD, compared to about $40 for a 4'x8' sheet of "Grade A").
Speakers I have made out of Grade A look good and feel/sound like they are made out of plywood - not bad.
Speakers I have made out of Baltic Birch look fantastic and feel/sound like they are made out of concrete 😀
Baltic Birch is by far the best choice, IMO. Worth the extra cost (although I can get a 5'x5' sheet for around $60 CAD, compared to about $40 for a 4'x8' sheet of "Grade A").
Speakers I have made out of Grade A look good and feel/sound like they are made out of plywood - not bad.
Speakers I have made out of Baltic Birch look fantastic and feel/sound like they are made out of concrete 😀
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if you use mdf you might want look into Krylon Speckle Stone or Duratex for a finish coat, on the cheap i've used truck bed liner coatings (Rockguard) but i can't say that these would be available where you are.
Is that last bit taken from XRK's assertion that all of measures but one matched the factory data? I did the hard work to check it out. Properly scaled graphs show that none of XRK's graphs match any of the factory's. Once the MA data is smoothed to a similar degree as the rest, XRK measure is as different to it as all the rest (the PRV may be a bit closer).
I asked before whether you had heard the TC9. No answer from you. What about the A10p? I did not comment on the VIFA until i had heard them. I was dissapointed after all the hype over them. It is what it purports to be, a $13 TV speaker. It has no detail (low DDR). It has no bass. They don't image. They are listless.
The A10p i have spent lots of time. They are quite good.
With respect to the OP's original inquiry, the TC9 is instantly eliminated from consideration. First it has no bass. And you can't get any out of it. Qt is too high. Fs is too high. As long as the box is past a certain amount of bigness that is as good as it gets. The driver is really an OB mid-tweeter. The 2nd reason it does not meet consideration is that it is 83.5 dB. The A10p at just under 90 dB is at the bottom edge of what should work (in the field people with Alpairs are getting away with less power than conventional wisdom would say is needed).
To say that the TC9 is flat requires one to believe that XRK's measures showit is flat )the factory data isn't), and that a measure that only covers the top 1/2 of the 10 octave spectum is adequate to show that something is flat.
It turns out Toole says that off-axis response is at least as important as the on-axis.
Also BTW Toole also doesn't put any cred in a measure outside of an anechoic chamber for his measure to preference connection.
Turns out the TC9 is a single instance one would need tp repudiates the premise* you have made in the last quote
*(in other threads is the context that this same measure allows one to quantitively judge the performance of a loudspeaker)
dave
nice retort P10
but "bigness" size or volume ok but "bigness" is a term to describe butts or other portions of the female anatomy.
more on topic the box design works i've played around enough with cardboard mock ups and far less worthy drivers to come to the conclusion that it's worth my time and money to go the full monty on it. as of yet i've not had the good fortune to hear the drivers myself but have no doubts they're worthy.
but "bigness" size or volume ok but "bigness" is a term to describe butts or other portions of the female anatomy.
more on topic the box design works i've played around enough with cardboard mock ups and far less worthy drivers to come to the conclusion that it's worth my time and money to go the full monty on it. as of yet i've not had the good fortune to hear the drivers myself but have no doubts they're worthy.
I have not read the whole thread.
One of the very best FR drivers I ever heard was the A12P in rthe Superpensil box. Awesome. Reasonable bass but perhaps still not enough.
For good, well defined bass in reasonable enclosures, I was impressed by the smooth and warm sounding Fostex FF225WK, even in the simple, relatively compact factory cabinet. A caveat of this speaker is that it really needs a supertweeter, without it the high treble is largely absent. But since it is so smooth listening, I think you can connect it unfiltered and use a simple tweeter filtered high.
The FF225WK offers one of the best bass options from a (semi) fullranger without complex cabinetry.And the overal tonality is relaxed and smooth. I think it might well be one of the best choices for your use case.
One of the very best FR drivers I ever heard was the A12P in rthe Superpensil box. Awesome. Reasonable bass but perhaps still not enough.
For good, well defined bass in reasonable enclosures, I was impressed by the smooth and warm sounding Fostex FF225WK, even in the simple, relatively compact factory cabinet. A caveat of this speaker is that it really needs a supertweeter, without it the high treble is largely absent. But since it is so smooth listening, I think you can connect it unfiltered and use a simple tweeter filtered high.
The FF225WK offers one of the best bass options from a (semi) fullranger without complex cabinetry.And the overal tonality is relaxed and smooth. I think it might well be one of the best choices for your use case.
In this case anything over about 4 litres is big enuff. We put them in 5.5 litre.
dave
They are a bit disappointing. On the desktop, they are OK, but still not that great. In the main rig, they are just lifeless. They are pretty poor on the top end, I think my 12p's have a better top end. That's sad from such a small driver. There's detail, and some imaging going on, but there's just no "life" to them. Probably the first time I've listened to Bob Marley, and didn't tap my foot along with the song.🙁
They don't dig as deep as the FHXL's, but they are still impressive, considering how simple the box is.
jeff
No, I have not heard the Alp10. I owned A12s once and still own A6s. I didn't hear what the fuss is about. They have problems, just like other full range drivers. And they are quite pricey and plasticky. You make correct points about the Vifa needing help down below. I suggested adding subs. You can never really get satisfactory bass out of full range drivers anyway. Doppler distortion also kicks in at some point, but it is likely not a big factor.
My point is, there is no need to hear the drivers. Given all the research, it is easy to determine what can sound good and what will not. I like the fact that I don't have to subscribe to Stereophile to know what something is going to sound like. I don't have to listen to Dave's opinion, or Scott's. I can judge for myself. Just show me the measurements and I can tell if I am going to like it or not. It is quite liberating. I have tested and verified this in practice. Improve the crossover, it sounds good. Use drivers with fewer resonances, it sounds better. Eliminate response aberrations through EQ, it sounds better. So, what the research shows works in practice. I like the fact that I'm not stumbling in the dark, not knowing what is going to improve the sound, relying on somebody else's personal opinion. Thanks to light shone by Toole, Olive and others, I can see the path.
For the first few years, I tried following others subjective opinions, reading diyaudio, reading the popular audio rags, scouring the internet for information. Everybody has an opinion, everybody has their favorites, but does that lead to better sound? After gaining the knowledge of what actually matters in sound reproduction, things became so much clearer and easy. I can easily add a resonance to give more detail to female voices. Some people might like that. They may like a driver that has that resonance. But the same resonance could make violins sound shrieky. I like to leave those decisions to the mastering engineer. I want to enjoy the art. I don't want to add layers of coloration on top of what the mastering engineer intended for a particular recording.
So, this is a long winded way of saying to LemonFuzzy that gain the knowledge first. Know what matters in audio reproduction. There is nothing magical about the Alpair10 or the Vifa TC9. What makes them sound good or bad is well known, well published and well understood.
My point is, there is no need to hear the drivers. Given all the research, it is easy to determine what can sound good and what will not. I like the fact that I don't have to subscribe to Stereophile to know what something is going to sound like. I don't have to listen to Dave's opinion, or Scott's. I can judge for myself. Just show me the measurements and I can tell if I am going to like it or not. It is quite liberating. I have tested and verified this in practice. Improve the crossover, it sounds good. Use drivers with fewer resonances, it sounds better. Eliminate response aberrations through EQ, it sounds better. So, what the research shows works in practice. I like the fact that I'm not stumbling in the dark, not knowing what is going to improve the sound, relying on somebody else's personal opinion. Thanks to light shone by Toole, Olive and others, I can see the path.
For the first few years, I tried following others subjective opinions, reading diyaudio, reading the popular audio rags, scouring the internet for information. Everybody has an opinion, everybody has their favorites, but does that lead to better sound? After gaining the knowledge of what actually matters in sound reproduction, things became so much clearer and easy. I can easily add a resonance to give more detail to female voices. Some people might like that. They may like a driver that has that resonance. But the same resonance could make violins sound shrieky. I like to leave those decisions to the mastering engineer. I want to enjoy the art. I don't want to add layers of coloration on top of what the mastering engineer intended for a particular recording.
So, this is a long winded way of saying to LemonFuzzy that gain the knowledge first. Know what matters in audio reproduction. There is nothing magical about the Alpair10 or the Vifa TC9. What makes them sound good or bad is well known, well published and well understood.
I'm in agreement with all the above. I have had FF225WK in something fairly close to the factory box, ~28L @ 39Hz. With 4dB of BSC, bass was tight and dry, perhaps a tad more than I like it to be, but it was enjoyable. I was shooting for 44Hz tuning initially. I still have the drivers on shelves and really like the "simulated" looks of the transfer function for 44L @ 44Hz with 1ohm of amplifier impedance.
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