yup
forced break in is hard to do as well.
some of us consider that there is a simple time aspect of break in of these banana pulp cone drivers - on the 1-2 year realm. it is hard to speed that up and I feel that the most profound break in comes from that simple time passing, having them installed and playing regularly for that long. it is fun to hear the musical instrument develop.
in my mad science, I amm considering experimenting with humidification/dehumidification, stressing, destressing (via b+ applied to terminals in certain amounts) etc, etc. even sunlight, etc.
no doubt I would destroy a few. cryoing works too, half the time....
Clark
forced break in is hard to do as well.
some of us consider that there is a simple time aspect of break in of these banana pulp cone drivers - on the 1-2 year realm. it is hard to speed that up and I feel that the most profound break in comes from that simple time passing, having them installed and playing regularly for that long. it is fun to hear the musical instrument develop.
in my mad science, I amm considering experimenting with humidification/dehumidification, stressing, destressing (via b+ applied to terminals in certain amounts) etc, etc. even sunlight, etc.
no doubt I would destroy a few. cryoing works too, half the time....
Clark
Thee spider (and to a lesser extent the surround) needs good old fashion *signal related* excursion. The same for the glue between the diaphram and the surround.
The diaphram needs increased levels of oxygen. Oxidation makes the bannana fiber more compliant and turns the color a bit more brown. (..my 166esrs are much darker than when I recieved them - and the response is smoother and less "chalky".)
The diaphram needs increased levels of oxygen. Oxidation makes the bannana fiber more compliant and turns the color a bit more brown. (..my 166esrs are much darker than when I recieved them - and the response is smoother and less "chalky".)
wow wow wow
I have had the es-rs in small sealed test cabinets for a few days now. been playing with the t90aex. I have a .47mfd on them.
these things are just so pleasing. I like the tone so much more than the 1666es-r. the 166 is very nice and all. totally incredible in fact, but i must admit that it was never involving enough for me. too tame. the 206 es-r have far better vocals to my taste. everything is very involving. there does seem to be a small hole somewhere in the midrange. I hesitate to talk much about it because of te test cabinet. just listening to the speed of these drivers though, I am very pleased. best big cone full ranger i have ever heard. there seem to be so many benefits of the big drivers, except cost, size, and the shoutyness, which these do not have.
they necessitate the use of highly refined low power tube amps. just no two ways about it.
they allow you to peer into the soul of your amp. few will be happy with what they find.
well,
see yas
Starting construction on monday.
Clark
I have had the es-rs in small sealed test cabinets for a few days now. been playing with the t90aex. I have a .47mfd on them.
these things are just so pleasing. I like the tone so much more than the 1666es-r. the 166 is very nice and all. totally incredible in fact, but i must admit that it was never involving enough for me. too tame. the 206 es-r have far better vocals to my taste. everything is very involving. there does seem to be a small hole somewhere in the midrange. I hesitate to talk much about it because of te test cabinet. just listening to the speed of these drivers though, I am very pleased. best big cone full ranger i have ever heard. there seem to be so many benefits of the big drivers, except cost, size, and the shoutyness, which these do not have.
they necessitate the use of highly refined low power tube amps. just no two ways about it.
they allow you to peer into the soul of your amp. few will be happy with what they find.
well,
see yas
Starting construction on monday.
Clark
Bluemenco, are you using an attenuator on the T90AES? I want to incorporate a pair but I am trying to avoid a pot or transformer. I had used the T90A`s with just a .33 mfd cap and that seemed OK, it was definately not bright, and a .47 mfd cap seemed to sizzle a little more than I care for. I`m having a hard time justifying the $, and you opinion is of value to me. Thanks, NOXO.
DaveCan, if you read the whole thread, you know I was frustrated the 1st few weeks with the sound. I got some good advice from a few inmates here, on stuffing and damping the horns. Kloss and Bluemenco were especially helpful with the right way to tune them. Been listening to them a few months now, without feeling the need for further adjustment. I use them more as a wide band driver, augmented with T90AEX and a sealed sub. Currently I am very happy with the sound and feel these will be my main speakers for a long time. They`re detailed, and have a natural soundstage. On piano, acoustic guitar, and vocals they are more convincing than anything else I`ve ever had in my home. For almost 20 years I was a LS3/5a, and Proac 1sc owner and fullrange sound has changed everything. Anyway, after some judicial stuffing and lots of break in, I now love the FE206ESR in the Fostex recommended horn. YMMV
I've had my 206esr's for about 8 months now and it seems like they just keep getting better every time I listen.
The only changes made are the addition of planet10 phase plugs and removing more than half of the stuffing from the CC. They sounded great with the chamber nearly full of stuffing at first but as they wear in they became "restricted" sounding. All thats left is a pad of poly fill about 8"X8"X2" right behind the driver.
The phase plugs were a big step (cutting the dust cap off a $225 speaker
) but well worth the the blood that was sweated out doing it! IMHO (it was'nt that bad)
I'm using fostex recomended 208 sigma cab's with no tweeter or sub and I dont feel a need for either one.
People that hear them ALWAYS ask where the sub is and have a hard time believing there is'nt one!
"That much bass can't be coming from just a pair of 8" drivers!"
The only changes made are the addition of planet10 phase plugs and removing more than half of the stuffing from the CC. They sounded great with the chamber nearly full of stuffing at first but as they wear in they became "restricted" sounding. All thats left is a pad of poly fill about 8"X8"X2" right behind the driver.
The phase plugs were a big step (cutting the dust cap off a $225 speaker
) but well worth the the blood that was sweated out doing it! IMHO (it was'nt that bad)I'm using fostex recomended 208 sigma cab's with no tweeter or sub and I dont feel a need for either one.
People that hear them ALWAYS ask where the sub is and have a hard time believing there is'nt one!
"That much bass can't be coming from just a pair of 8" drivers!"
I hear you on the dustcapectomy that could be nerve racking on a driver like that. How do the mids and highs compare to the fe108's if you've heard them? Nice to see you enjoy them solo without any augmentation as that's how I would want to use them if I can get a pair. Hmmm I wonder how they would sound in a BIB cab.. Dave
recommended horns.
I have mine in the acoustic guise that I will leave them.
decent solid core wire
t90aex - .33mfd cap fostex cs series
inch thick pad of crimped fiberous poly type damping behind driver and bottom of cc. it is one continuous piece.
these speakers will certainly stand the test of time. I am consistently amazed by their overall balanced character for a large 8 inch BLH. they seem to choose the right compromises and amaze in the right ways. they have a very intense and involving sound. they can totally disappear with the right amps. yes, perhaps the 208es-r will be fun to play with in its own right. the 206es-r is a great speaker though, and will be reserved a special place in my heart for a long long time. the resonance tone especially of the horn has developed into a beautiful or even sarcastic tone. amazing and subtly expressful of the bass notes. they have a range of super low bass that is jaw droppingly impressive for anyone to hear, yet beautiful at the same time. as many of us know, it is frequent for a speaker to be rated down to 30hz. it is rare for it to have any sort of musical expression down there. most speakers I would rather have tuned higher and keep the dynamics. but these things deliver and sing at that realm. even though, they seem to have a monitor's tone for the most part. the recommended enclosure at least. but strangely there is a little something more - I love all the sublte color from them as well. it is realistic and artistic at the same time. they are musical instruments of a high level of refinement. needless to say, I am not dissappointed here. I have learned alot from their construction and implimentation. they are hyper efficient and allow our tubes to sing forthright and be strong of character. as far as amp tone is concerned, they provide a neautral environment within which to work. by neutral, I am using the word distinctly differently from that of the commercial audio realm. it is concerning their efficiency and inherent tone. amplifiers sound as they are - too dry, too sweet, whatever their problems, they come out obviously. as well, their merits too. this quality being different from certain other high efficiency types, which end up needing an amp of certain tone quality - not the neutral one (either sweetened or dried)- to sound good at all. these horns, by my estimation, like a relatively neutral toned amp for greatest musical performance. they also sound good with alot of different tonal styles depending on one's preferences. it affords an interesting potential for diversity in this realm.
what am I using? a well tuned and built sex amp. jensen coupling caps, alps pot. building paramourII then converting them to emissions lab mesh plate 45s, foreplayIII. source is the echo mona digital audio interface (hard drives - no jitter) studio aesthetic - neutral tone - affords playing around from there and knowing what you are dealing with...I have wanted to play with 45s for some time. this is my much anticipated opportunity. yay!!!!
well, it is good to hear these long term impressions of the horns from other people too. to me, in the BLH realm, they are the only impressions that matter. yes, no doy, blh are hard to refine and to have patience with but in the end are worth every minute of waiting for the wood to destress and for your tone to develop in 2+months. they are almost pointless to tweak with till that time comes. an instrument builder is patient with every step of the process. constantly keeping an open mind when trying a new design. that is what I have learned to do through these horns.
well, see y'all
Clark
I have mine in the acoustic guise that I will leave them.
decent solid core wire
t90aex - .33mfd cap fostex cs series
inch thick pad of crimped fiberous poly type damping behind driver and bottom of cc. it is one continuous piece.
these speakers will certainly stand the test of time. I am consistently amazed by their overall balanced character for a large 8 inch BLH. they seem to choose the right compromises and amaze in the right ways. they have a very intense and involving sound. they can totally disappear with the right amps. yes, perhaps the 208es-r will be fun to play with in its own right. the 206es-r is a great speaker though, and will be reserved a special place in my heart for a long long time. the resonance tone especially of the horn has developed into a beautiful or even sarcastic tone. amazing and subtly expressful of the bass notes. they have a range of super low bass that is jaw droppingly impressive for anyone to hear, yet beautiful at the same time. as many of us know, it is frequent for a speaker to be rated down to 30hz. it is rare for it to have any sort of musical expression down there. most speakers I would rather have tuned higher and keep the dynamics. but these things deliver and sing at that realm. even though, they seem to have a monitor's tone for the most part. the recommended enclosure at least. but strangely there is a little something more - I love all the sublte color from them as well. it is realistic and artistic at the same time. they are musical instruments of a high level of refinement. needless to say, I am not dissappointed here. I have learned alot from their construction and implimentation. they are hyper efficient and allow our tubes to sing forthright and be strong of character. as far as amp tone is concerned, they provide a neautral environment within which to work. by neutral, I am using the word distinctly differently from that of the commercial audio realm. it is concerning their efficiency and inherent tone. amplifiers sound as they are - too dry, too sweet, whatever their problems, they come out obviously. as well, their merits too. this quality being different from certain other high efficiency types, which end up needing an amp of certain tone quality - not the neutral one (either sweetened or dried)- to sound good at all. these horns, by my estimation, like a relatively neutral toned amp for greatest musical performance. they also sound good with alot of different tonal styles depending on one's preferences. it affords an interesting potential for diversity in this realm.
what am I using? a well tuned and built sex amp. jensen coupling caps, alps pot. building paramourII then converting them to emissions lab mesh plate 45s, foreplayIII. source is the echo mona digital audio interface (hard drives - no jitter) studio aesthetic - neutral tone - affords playing around from there and knowing what you are dealing with...I have wanted to play with 45s for some time. this is my much anticipated opportunity. yay!!!!
well, it is good to hear these long term impressions of the horns from other people too. to me, in the BLH realm, they are the only impressions that matter. yes, no doy, blh are hard to refine and to have patience with but in the end are worth every minute of waiting for the wood to destress and for your tone to develop in 2+months. they are almost pointless to tweak with till that time comes. an instrument builder is patient with every step of the process. constantly keeping an open mind when trying a new design. that is what I have learned to do through these horns.
well, see y'all
Clark
DaveCan, last nite I removed the supertweeter and sub and played some music. For my music tastes, I feel the sub is more important than the T90AEX. I listen to alot of electronic music like William Orbit and his music requires output below 40HZ. When I was playing acoustic music like Guy Clark and James McMurtry, I don`t miss much important without either sub or tweeter and the musicians actually have a more believeable presence in the room. Piano, which I feel is one of the Fe206ESR`s strong points, need do augmentation at either end. On the T90AEX`s I use only a .33mfd Fostex cap, no attenuation, and the sub comes in about 50HZ and the level is low. I don`t try to add more bass and treble, just extend them a little. I could live happily without them on 90% of the music I play, which sort of makes me wonder why I paid so much for so little. Back to horses for courses. If you want to rock, sub and super tweet help alot, but if your tastes are more mellow, I think you get a little more "magic" with just the single driver. From my expirience the best thing you can do to improve the sound is give them PLENTY of break in. It`s great to have a speaker that I like more and more everyday, I just got off to a rough start. NOXO
yeah.
good to hear noxo. I love william orbit!
my enclosures, as mentioned, are able to do 75-85 average db at listening position with a sex amp at nine o clock. this is the sweet spot of the system for most of the music I listen to. I love the way things are breaking in.
I actually measured my enclosures with ~12db rolloff down to 15hz. ha!!! with definite and significant output below 40hz to around 25.
I think though that like the effect of a super tweeter, it is significant output as low level as it is.
yeah, I am hooked on my supertweeters though, especially the t90aex, which has proven to be a very nice one indeed. especially in the larger rooms that these things were meant for. it is a magical back horn. super speed. I find that while perhaps the supertweeter might really only apply to the demands of vinyl playback. that the single driver keeps the treble of our ever nasty digital down.
Clark
good to hear noxo. I love william orbit!
my enclosures, as mentioned, are able to do 75-85 average db at listening position with a sex amp at nine o clock. this is the sweet spot of the system for most of the music I listen to. I love the way things are breaking in.
I actually measured my enclosures with ~12db rolloff down to 15hz. ha!!! with definite and significant output below 40hz to around 25.
I think though that like the effect of a super tweeter, it is significant output as low level as it is.
yeah, I am hooked on my supertweeters though, especially the t90aex, which has proven to be a very nice one indeed. especially in the larger rooms that these things were meant for. it is a magical back horn. super speed. I find that while perhaps the supertweeter might really only apply to the demands of vinyl playback. that the single driver keeps the treble of our ever nasty digital down.
Clark
Hi All.
New driver from fostex
FE-208ES-R !!!
8Ohm
foF38Hz
fo23kHz
99dB/W/m
100W
mo12g
Qo0.16
7.95cm
3.1kg
6.3kg
185m
http://tokudane.jugem.jp/
New driver from fostex
FE-208ES-R !!!
8Ohm
foF38Hz
fo23kHz
99dB/W/m
100W
mo12g
Qo0.16
7.95cm
3.1kg
6.3kg
185m
http://tokudane.jugem.jp/
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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