Hi all,
18 months ago I built a pair of Jimi Chang BVR speakers for the JX92S driver, was my 1st DIY speaker project (pic here and here). I have been very pleased with them, dynamic, room filling, open sound with a strong bottom end capable of doing justice to electronic dance and drum and bass music as well as Jazz / vocals. (just fantastic considering the cost / size) Bass measured more or less flat down to 40hz in my listening position.
However, the success has done nothing to diminished my desire for another (bigger) project. I have 2 ideas and I'm trying to decide which is going to be more successful / possible.
1. using either the FE168E or FE208E Sigma drivers and build the BLH cabs as recommended on the fostex website. They both look to have good bass performance and would be a fairly safe bet I reckon. http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_components/pdf/recom_enclose/208ez_enclrev.pdf
OR
2. Build a pair of bigger BVR Chang style cabs with the possible edition of a side mounted, horn HF driver.
Does anyone know of a BVR Chang style design suitable for the FE168E and FE208E? (I'm still not sure which driver to use)
If a Chang stlye design does exist, will it offer greater bass depth compared to the Foxtex BLH design?
I'm tempted to (if it's possible) build chang style ones as I like the way the Jimi's work in my room.
Thanks for any help
Graham
18 months ago I built a pair of Jimi Chang BVR speakers for the JX92S driver, was my 1st DIY speaker project (pic here and here). I have been very pleased with them, dynamic, room filling, open sound with a strong bottom end capable of doing justice to electronic dance and drum and bass music as well as Jazz / vocals. (just fantastic considering the cost / size) Bass measured more or less flat down to 40hz in my listening position.
However, the success has done nothing to diminished my desire for another (bigger) project. I have 2 ideas and I'm trying to decide which is going to be more successful / possible.
1. using either the FE168E or FE208E Sigma drivers and build the BLH cabs as recommended on the fostex website. They both look to have good bass performance and would be a fairly safe bet I reckon. http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_components/pdf/recom_enclose/208ez_enclrev.pdf
OR
2. Build a pair of bigger BVR Chang style cabs with the possible edition of a side mounted, horn HF driver.
Does anyone know of a BVR Chang style design suitable for the FE168E and FE208E? (I'm still not sure which driver to use)
If a Chang stlye design does exist, will it offer greater bass depth compared to the Foxtex BLH design?
I'm tempted to (if it's possible) build chang style ones as I like the way the Jimi's work in my room.
Thanks for any help
Graham
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The ESigma range aren't all that well suited to this sort of loading without considerable help from amplifier or other Eq, but there are plenty of enclosures that they do work well with, providing you don't mind a longer flare-path.
The 208 is the better choice IMO. The 168 theoretically goes higher, but it doesn't do it very well, so both need a tweeter, making the larger unit the canny choice if funds permit & you can cope with a larger enclosure.
The 208 is the better choice IMO. The 168 theoretically goes higher, but it doesn't do it very well, so both need a tweeter, making the larger unit the canny choice if funds permit & you can cope with a larger enclosure.
Perhaps the 208 is the way to go then, makes sense when you put it like that. Thanks.
Do you have a link to any enclosures that the 208s will work with? I've had a look on the frugal horn website and can't see any. (I like the chang style because of the perceived room filling height / scale they offer, happy to consider other designes)
Do you have a link to any enclosures that the 208s will work with? I've had a look on the frugal horn website and can't see any. (I like the chang style because of the perceived room filling height / scale they offer, happy to consider other designes)
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I think a Giant Fh3 style speaker designed for the FE208 would be interesting and probably sound really good.
It would be so large (assuming it's designed to account for the factors FH3 does take into consideration, which are not covered under purely plane-wave assumptions) as to be unmanageable. There's a reason I / we haven't done larger examples, and it's not because we can't design them. I have one for the A10P completed, which I believe Dave & Chris are looking at prototyping. Beyond that, the size becomes excessive.
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As far as a box is concerned, the 208 is happy in most enclosures a 206 works in -you might need to tweak things a little, but not all that much more than you'd do anyway to get the speaker dialled in to your preferences. There are a couple of examples on the FH site & elsewhere.
I'd have a look at the Bill Woods (RCA-fan) designed back-horn for strong-motor Fostex 8". It is quite large with a Karlson-slot at the mouth. He designed it to replicate the sound of the old RCA theater systems AFAIK. I never heard it and cannot give it a first-hand thumb-up, but I'd have a certain level of confidence in this guy's designs. I'd try it if I had an extra large room for a system. 🙂
IG
IG
FH3-inspired 'Grande' with FE207E
Just out of curiosity, here is what I came up with if I simply double the dimensions of the FH3-inspired speaker (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/227460-fh3-inspired-foam-core-mini-build.html) that I built for the little foam core TC9FD but with the FE207E. This is 1 watt at 4 meters away with speaker placed 16 in away from back wall. It actually looks pretty good but it is big at 5 feet tall and 10 in wide x 10 deep (main box) and 30 in deep (rear wings).
Just out of curiosity, here is what I came up with if I simply double the dimensions of the FH3-inspired speaker (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/227460-fh3-inspired-foam-core-mini-build.html) that I built for the little foam core TC9FD but with the FE207E. This is 1 watt at 4 meters away with speaker placed 16 in away from back wall. It actually looks pretty good but it is big at 5 feet tall and 10 in wide x 10 deep (main box) and 30 in deep (rear wings).
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As I say, size is one of the reasons we have not done larger enclosures along the lines of FH3, although I have recently completed one for the A10P. However X -a favour to ask. I for one greatly admire your enthusiasm, but I think those involved in FH3 would appreciate it if you would stop trying to scale it, since at present it does not accurately reflect the design intentions. We can't stop you of course & certainly no offense meant, but we prefer to develop it in our own way.
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I found this project, http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/65061-full-range-speaker-photo-gallery-90.html#post1765150 I notice he's used and 206 driver
could I get away with the 208 (or the 168) in this design? I really like the look of the curvy chang I'm not sure what drivers it's supposed to be used with however.
could I get away with the 208 (or the 168) in this design? I really like the look of the curvy chang I'm not sure what drivers it's supposed to be used with however.
It's not ideal (I designed it), but with some help from the amplifier & Eq, it could be made to work with the 208, as noted above. You need to be sitting > 11 from the CC for optimal performance BTW.
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OK sorry, I didn't realise you're the designer! (thanks v. much for the jimi chang design i made!)
My listening room allows 11+feet between me the the cabs so the size is ok and i have high ceiling as well.
what drivers were the CC designed for? (is it the same issue with the 168 and CC?)
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Glad you like them. 🙂
CC was designed for the unfortunately defunct FE207E, which was a rather nice driver. Unpretentious, not spectacular, but a solid performer that rarely drew attention to itself.
The 168 isn't even in the same size-range, but basically yes, similar issues. I've actually done a replacement box for the FF225wk; it's in the rather long 😉 queue I've subjected poor old Dave to for drawing up. The 225, like the 208, needs a helper tweeter. Truth to tell, the old 207 did too since it rolled off somewhat more than Fostex's published graphs appeared to indicate. Not necessarily a bad thing IMO.
CC was designed for the unfortunately defunct FE207E, which was a rather nice driver. Unpretentious, not spectacular, but a solid performer that rarely drew attention to itself.
The 168 isn't even in the same size-range, but basically yes, similar issues. I've actually done a replacement box for the FF225wk; it's in the rather long 😉 queue I've subjected poor old Dave to for drawing up. The 225, like the 208, needs a helper tweeter. Truth to tell, the old 207 did too since it rolled off somewhat more than Fostex's published graphs appeared to indicate. Not necessarily a bad thing IMO.
Interesting....
Basically I'd like to build something that will sound like a scaled up version of the Jx92s / Jimi changs that I have now. More realism, more speed, more dynamics, more scale (and at least the same bass performance). I'm quite happy to add a horn loaded HF driver if necessary.
P10hifi and wodendesign have a couple of designs for the 206 (208) driver which look interesting. however they are possibly a bit too big.
The Haruna Manifold Horn 0v93 for the FE166En Looks about the right size. I wonder if I could get away with the 168 in there?
This isn't as easy as I thought.
Basically I'd like to build something that will sound like a scaled up version of the Jx92s / Jimi changs that I have now. More realism, more speed, more dynamics, more scale (and at least the same bass performance). I'm quite happy to add a horn loaded HF driver if necessary.
P10hifi and wodendesign have a couple of designs for the 206 (208) driver which look interesting. however they are possibly a bit too big.
The Haruna Manifold Horn 0v93 for the FE166En Looks about the right size. I wonder if I could get away with the 168 in there?
This isn't as easy as I thought.
It should do OK in Haruna (I designed that as well -all the Spawn designs are mine, as are all of the Woden enclosures).
Re the rest it's difficult to say since the areas you mention are subjective without specific technical definitions being laid down. Haruna for e.g. in comparison with the box you currently run will have a similar power-response < 100Hz, but the horn has a higher cut-off frequency, so there will be significant differences between ~ 100Hz - 300Hz since the horn is operating over a wider BW. It has greater radiating area, which along with the higher acoustic XO may give you that 'scale' you refer to. It has slightly greater group-delay, like all longer flare path back-horns, since this is a function of the speed of sound and the distance the wave has to travel.
Re the rest it's difficult to say since the areas you mention are subjective without specific technical definitions being laid down. Haruna for e.g. in comparison with the box you currently run will have a similar power-response < 100Hz, but the horn has a higher cut-off frequency, so there will be significant differences between ~ 100Hz - 300Hz since the horn is operating over a wider BW. It has greater radiating area, which along with the higher acoustic XO may give you that 'scale' you refer to. It has slightly greater group-delay, like all longer flare path back-horns, since this is a function of the speed of sound and the distance the wave has to travel.
This. +1! I ran this setup, FE208z with the RCA Fan horn, for a couple of years and still miss it a bit today. The 208 does not get a lot of hype, but is the best all around 8" I've tried amongst Altec 755c, Lowther DX4, Fostex F200a and Visaton 200 (and probably a few others that I'm forgetting at the moment). Yes they are large, but efficient and with the ability to scale visceral dynamics without distorting, unlike "small" speakers.
Greg B's Karlsonator Six might work with 168 - - some years ago Carl used the 208 Sigma in a little Karlson - a different coupler than that one might be punchier - a K-tube helper tweeter could be added and can be mounted internally
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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'Can't (kan't?) pass comment on the Karlsons, since it's years since I last heard one, but Bill's Karlson-slotted back-horn may well be worth looking at if you want a smaller (these things being relative) enclosure for the 208. It won't plunge the depths, but should have excellent gain through the midbass.
Is there a drawing with dimensions of RCA Fan's K slot back horn somewhere? All I could find was this, and not sure if it is the 'official' design.
RCA-Fan's 206-208 Lowther slot-horn - can I go smaller or not? (Page 1) / FullRangeDriver Forum / Fullrangedriver Forum
RCA-Fan's 206-208 Lowther slot-horn - can I go smaller or not? (Page 1) / FullRangeDriver Forum / Fullrangedriver Forum
that's it - there is a whole thread/build by Zobsky - from my AJ-sim of W8-1772 in Bill's K-slot, 1772 should have sounded better in a K12
nice pic of K-slot here
Acoustic Horn - Gallery
Bill's K-slot
FE206E in Bill's K-sloit vs "The Veich" - I lost AJ along the way
K-slot FE206E vs Bill's BVR Hitbox JBL M151
nice pic of K-slot here
Acoustic Horn - Gallery
Bill's K-slot
FE206E in Bill's K-sloit vs "The Veich" - I lost AJ along the way
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
K-slot FE206E vs Bill's BVR Hitbox JBL M151
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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