Scottmoose said:
Scott - it's not my place to differ with you, but in my experience with the full zoot A126 (+ deflector + suprabaffle + tweaked drivers), LF extension and dynamics are not an issue. "Way too small"? - perhaps for a 5000ft^3 or larger room, but certainly not in my long skinny basement room (8.5ftx23ftx7.5ft) Horses for courses.
Back to topic - an easy/cheap build for a driver of this pedigree and price almost seems an insult - I think it deserves at least an RC or SL design, once the TSP data is derived.
What do you mean not your place mate? You have the practical experience with the cabinets, which counts for far more than my SWAGs on the machine.
The 'way too small' remark was specifically in reference to the 138 being used in the Nagaoka D10, which is the grand total of 58cm tall. FWIW though, I still believe the Frugel & A126 are too small for the 138, albeit not to the same extent. If that 18.8 litre Vas figure is correct, then more Vb will be needed from a theoretical POV. Just my opinion -I've been known to be wrong. Quite a lot.
The 'way too small' remark was specifically in reference to the 138 being used in the Nagaoka D10, which is the grand total of 58cm tall. FWIW though, I still believe the Frugel & A126 are too small for the 138, albeit not to the same extent. If that 18.8 litre Vas figure is correct, then more Vb will be needed from a theoretical POV. Just my opinion -I've been known to be wrong. Quite a lot.
Scottmoose said:
Oops, my bad - I took your statement to imply the two named cabinets were too small for the FE126 - my experience is certainly the contrary.
Moreover, not being much of a math geek, I wasn't paying attention to whether enough reliable data had been accumulated on the FE138 to "safely" model for them. From my auditions, not all of the Fostex enclosures (including some Nagaoka inspired ones) are home-runs.
Even if the D10 or variant thereof could be "optimized" for the FE138, it's certainly not a design I'd want to live with. "mommy, daddy's speaker keeps staring at me..."
Now, if and when a pair of these babies magically shows up on Dave's door, it's probably safe to assume that the genius consortium will have a menu of design flavours from which to choose.
planet10 said:
Hey, Dave, finally you came up with some straight words, thanks for the decent
knock on the head...😉
i wanna do this the right way !
you know, i didn´t get the es-r´s because i searched for new speakers, because
i was unhappy with my current system, i just jumped on the occasion, because i thought,
this will be the the best drivers, i will ever be able to afford, and i will deeply
regret it in the future, if i didn´t grab them, while they´re still available.
(the production is limited to 700 pairs and IMHO, you only have the chance to grab
one to the end of spring)
and these fine babys truly deserve a really good and well chosen cabinet.
and i´m not happy with guessing specs and stumbling around in the dark, trying
to put them in speakers, that didn´t really fit.
...so someone has to do this, so i just ordered a woofer-Tester2 from S&L-Audio,
in order to measure my es-R´s, this thingy costs "only" 159$$, thats the same
amount of money i´ll have to spend on plywood for some cabinets that will
probably end up in the chimney.
cheerio, Mirko
M_Balou said:
🙂 🙂 🙂
now everyone who has 138eSRs & hopes for a spawn should send you a donation to help cover woofer-tester...
And maybe with data and cabinets at hand, perhaps more will go out and get <b>what is probaly the best driver Fostex has ever built</b> (wish i could 🙁)
dave
planet10 said:
well, they keep surprising us, so "ever" may just be "yet", and pricing has so far not attained Feastrex territory
planet10 said:
Thanks for your kind words, Dave.
sadly, delivery from the U.S. to old europe takes usually 2 weeks
cheers, Mirko
OK, I surrender. 😉 Once the data is in, I'll do a double-mouth Spawn box for the 138ES-R, as there seems to be some interest.
So, might as well ask in advance: what do you want? Trad. gain type long path, or short waveguide style enclosure? (& if the former, stepped or ~constant expansion, or a combination?) Focused or column style? As Dave reckons it's potentially one of the best units Fostex have made, it'd be a shame not to do it justice.
So, might as well ask in advance: what do you want? Trad. gain type long path, or short waveguide style enclosure? (& if the former, stepped or ~constant expansion, or a combination?) Focused or column style? As Dave reckons it's potentially one of the best units Fostex have made, it'd be a shame not to do it justice.
Scottmoose said:
well Scott, the answer of course, is one of each (i.e. all of the above)
anyone who can afford a pair of these drivers should certainly be able to justify the cost of a couple of dozen sheets of plywood to find the enclosure that best suits his/her ears & living room
the remainder will make for a great marshmallow / bavarian smokie roast bonfire.
go bucky go
i had decided to let bucky go, altough she looked cute and listen to dave's advice.
better build me a set of the much acclaimed austin 166 play with them for a while and wait patiently for some nice design here to see the light.
i can always use these austins as a second set somewhere (studio?!) as dave's suggested
but now things are moving forward i feel.
great to hear scott will take up the challenge for fostex best driver ever.
@mirko
i would very much like to contribute in your effort to get the right data and because my technical know how is close to zero i could maybe chip in a little.
i would hate to see you doing all the work, investing and me waiting on the side as a total newby and walk away with the prize. (->pm for details..?)
it would also justify in some way my stupid questions and misunderstanding of basics.
greetings from holland
~joris
--
way in over my head
i had decided to let bucky go, altough she looked cute and listen to dave's advice.
better build me a set of the much acclaimed austin 166 play with them for a while and wait patiently for some nice design here to see the light.
i can always use these austins as a second set somewhere (studio?!) as dave's suggested
but now things are moving forward i feel.
great to hear scott will take up the challenge for fostex best driver ever.
@mirko
i would very much like to contribute in your effort to get the right data and because my technical know how is close to zero i could maybe chip in a little.
i would hate to see you doing all the work, investing and me waiting on the side as a total newby and walk away with the prize. (->pm for details..?)
it would also justify in some way my stupid questions and misunderstanding of basics.
greetings from holland
~joris
--
way in over my head
Scottmoose said:
Hi Scott,
I´m really happy to hear these words from you !!! 😀 😀
so, what do we want ? i can only speak for myself, i think, a short waveguide style cabinet
would suit my desires best. I believe you truly had an enlightened moment , when you
first came up with the idea of the Calhoun, The design-concept of the mooseBVR´s is
so simple and elegant, it still amazes me, that a cabinet that is so easy to build offers
such good performance.
erhh, with "focused or column style" you mean that whether it should have a curved front
or not ? wel, i would like to build my changs with a curved front, cause is has great looks
and do improve the performance.
to come to a conclusion, something like a smaller KimChiChang or a bigger Maiko
would be my first choice.
cheerio, Mirko
hartgas said:
Hi Joris,
sorry for not responding earlier.
nice that you finally came up with a decision. i´m really looking forward to hear
about your experiences with Ron´s Austins.
and thanks for your offer in helping me out, but i don´t see a practical way how this
could be done (and it´s not really needed anyways)
and, really, don´t hesitate to take advantage of my (our) work. i´m not doing this for
me alone, (and besides. not much of hard work on my side, i´ll just do the
measurements, Scott does the wizzardry in designing the cabinets),IMHO that´s how
this comunity works, someone does the work and others are free to have the benefits
of it.
and when you build the Austins for the es-r´s and tell us about how they work out
toghether, that would be really a great contribution to this project.
cheerio, Mirko
impressions?
I am looking for more impressions of the sound... in any scenario. describing even what you feel is indescribable will help me, I think. I am into that whole abstract thing anyways.
Anybody built those turkeys yet?
How is the power handling/how much power do they need to really open up?
Thanks,
Clark
I am looking for more impressions of the sound... in any scenario. describing even what you feel is indescribable will help me, I think. I am into that whole abstract thing anyways.
Anybody built those turkeys yet?
How is the power handling/how much power do they need to really open up?
Thanks,
Clark
Well, if anyone is interested, once I have some solid stats on this driver, I will be starting on a new long path horn. Meanwhile, I have a 168 Sigma design in the hopper and am hoping that that will be a reasonable starting point. Probably not though. As I have found in the past, when drivers have even slightly different SD values, horns don't tend to want to work interchangeably. I am waiting with anticipation for stats on this driver!
Tom
Tom
Within reason, driver Sd is a matter of complete indifference to a horn. It's the other parameters, particularly Vas, Qe, Qm & Bl that dominate. IIRC, I've mentioned this before. Sd has no direct relationship to the calculation of throat & mouth CSAs, length or flare constant, be it for a fully optimised horn or a hybrid using QW & horn action.
Re: impressions?
Ineffable abstract subjectivism in audio - - what would TC think?
Seriously, there is sometimes a magic that just defies description and eludes analysis - it'll be interesting to find if that's the case with this driver.
Has Madisound ever approached Fostex re group buys or second production runs of any of these signature series drivers?
blumenco said:
Ineffable abstract subjectivism in audio - - what would TC think?
Seriously, there is sometimes a magic that just defies description and eludes analysis - it'll be interesting to find if that's the case with this driver.
Has Madisound ever approached Fostex re group buys or second production runs of any of these signature series drivers?
Re: Re: impressions?
Yes. Fostex is limiting distribution to Japan (and all the drivers are probably in the hands of dealers already)
dave
chrisb said:
Yes. Fostex is limiting distribution to Japan (and all the drivers are probably in the hands of dealers already)
dave
Re: Re: Re: impressions?
It appears they're in a position to not care how much larger the international DIY demand might be for some models (certainly their various distributors could apprise them of those figures).
I guess it would dilute the cache and market price if released to the "great unwashed"
just dreamin - this particular driver certainly seems like one for which many of us DIYers could get ( oops, I mean dedicate ) wood
planet10 said:
It appears they're in a position to not care how much larger the international DIY demand might be for some models (certainly their various distributors could apprise them of those figures).
I guess it would dilute the cache and market price if released to the "great unwashed"
just dreamin - this particular driver certainly seems like one for which many of us DIYers could get ( oops, I mean dedicate ) wood
Scottmoose said:
Sorry Scott, using wrong terms again. I am well aware SD has no direct relationship. I think in terms of MJK so unfortunately I am always throwing out SD as my reference. (Darn you Martin for brainwashing me! 😱 ) You see, any sort of area calculation I do these days, I use SD as a consequential reference. Ah well.
Tom