... ever heard of the Nessie ??
Hi Folks,
well... again i did some searching on the japanese net... and i found some cool stuff.
err, of course not the lost data, but probably a solution for the box-problem.
the conclusion of my findings is that Fostex promote the FE138ES-R with
3 boxes, a variant of the swan (...and this modded swan is really called "Turkey",
what a joke!) , a BHL and the Nessie-mid, a kind of resonance tube, also specially
redesigned by Fostex, all 3 boxes are originally designes of the great Tetsuo Nagaoka.
( i didn´t know that the infamous swan is a child of Nagaoka-sensei )
here´s a link to a report of an event held by Fostex, with some nice pics
of the 3 boxes
"creative Seminar"-link
and the same translated by google
"creative Seminar" translated
another more useful link is "T´z AudioCrafts", a very cool site, which features dozens
of Nagaoka-designs, and they have a section, specially for the 138es-r with description
of all 3 cabinets made by Fostex (look at the menue-bar on the left)
Tz Audiocrafts
and again same site translated by Google
Tz Audiocrafts with Google
i think i really like the Nessie-mid, i think i´m gonna build me a pair of these...
it was not love at first sight, though, when i first saw them, i thought "no way, these
things are insanely huge" ( 2 meters !!), and you would need lots of wood for them.
but the more i look at them, the more they make sense to me.
they´re easy to build ( no angles) and with a design similar to the BiB, they should
have good LF-perfomance, and it´s a proven design, they should work...
what do you guys think of it ??
cheerio, Mirko
Hi Folks,
well... again i did some searching on the japanese net... and i found some cool stuff.
err, of course not the lost data, but probably a solution for the box-problem.
the conclusion of my findings is that Fostex promote the FE138ES-R with
3 boxes, a variant of the swan (...and this modded swan is really called "Turkey",
what a joke!) , a BHL and the Nessie-mid, a kind of resonance tube, also specially
redesigned by Fostex, all 3 boxes are originally designes of the great Tetsuo Nagaoka.
( i didn´t know that the infamous swan is a child of Nagaoka-sensei )
here´s a link to a report of an event held by Fostex, with some nice pics
of the 3 boxes
"creative Seminar"-link
and the same translated by google
"creative Seminar" translated
another more useful link is "T´z AudioCrafts", a very cool site, which features dozens
of Nagaoka-designs, and they have a section, specially for the 138es-r with description
of all 3 cabinets made by Fostex (look at the menue-bar on the left)
Tz Audiocrafts
and again same site translated by Google
Tz Audiocrafts with Google
i think i really like the Nessie-mid, i think i´m gonna build me a pair of these...
it was not love at first sight, though, when i first saw them, i thought "no way, these
things are insanely huge" ( 2 meters !!), and you would need lots of wood for them.
but the more i look at them, the more they make sense to me.
they´re easy to build ( no angles) and with a design similar to the BiB, they should
have good LF-perfomance, and it´s a proven design, they should work...
what do you guys think of it ??
cheerio, Mirko
Attachments
looks like a tuned pipe. the small footprint almost gets WAF bonus points. no need to worry about furniture interfering with the port(?), vent or whatever that is but what happens if you have high cathedral ceilings?
sheesh watch me end up building them, LOL.
sheesh watch me end up building them, LOL.
Chris (cdwitmer) in the Feastrex thread recently posted some info that included talk of the 138esr, so I asked him there if he may be able to find out the vas for the 138. Hopefully the mystery will be over soon... Dave🙂
Excellent.
Re the Nessie-mid, it is indeed a tuned resonant pipe -bit like a car exhaust actually, or some of his smaller boxes. Probably will look terrible on a sim (they often do, but I'm unwilling to fudge bot Vas & Bl to run anything), but they can often sound good if you like that kind of thing.
Alternatively, it should slot into Saburo -although we don't know the exact parameters, they should be close enough for it to work OK.
Re the Nessie-mid, it is indeed a tuned resonant pipe -bit like a car exhaust actually, or some of his smaller boxes. Probably will look terrible on a sim (they often do, but I'm unwilling to fudge bot Vas & Bl to run anything), but they can often sound good if you like that kind of thing.
Alternatively, it should slot into Saburo -although we don't know the exact parameters, they should be close enough for it to work OK.
Chris indicated on the Feastrex thread that he found a Vas value of 18.8 litres. That sounds believeable. Extrapolating an approximate At from the Qo figure, and taking a couple of possible Qe & Qm values from it, the infinite baffle curve should resemble the attached, with a mass-corner frequency of approximately 445Hz.
Attachments
I have the equipment here if anyone is interested in sending a set to have them measured. It would probably take a couple of months though 😉 I would want to make sure I did a good job! 😀 Ok, all joking aside. I would love to buy a pair and measure them but the price is just a bit steep for me. Lowthers are on the list first at those prices. Ah well. That won't stop me designing a new enclosure for them at least. Not for a while though. Man, finding the time, finding the time. Ugh.
Tom
Tom
Oh, thats really some great news !! 
Thanks alot, Dave for, asking Chris, i really owe you something...
and again, thanks to Chris for finding a decent Vas-value.
-------------------------------
...and Scott, thanks alot also for crunching out some numbers, so you think
that a Vas of 18,8l could be the right value, thats really great !!!
and about the Nessie´s, i later found out, that almost all guys who build them,
use them in soround-AV-systems (odd, erhh) makes me think over the
sound-character of them again...😕
cheerio, Mirko
Thanks alot, Dave for, asking Chris, i really owe you something...
and again, thanks to Chris for finding a decent Vas-value.
-------------------------------
...and Scott, thanks alot also for crunching out some numbers, so you think
that a Vas of 18,8l could be the right value, thats really great !!!
and about the Nessie´s, i later found out, that almost all guys who build them,
use them in soround-AV-systems (odd, erhh) makes me think over the
sound-character of them again...😕
cheerio, Mirko
I wouldn't go so far as to say that, but I think it's plausible & close enough a figure to allow a design to be worked up. Typical sample variability means you only ever have an approximate anyway.
No prob Mirko... I just thought well it can't hurt to ask, and seeing's how he lives in Japan, maybe he'd have better luck scratchin up the info.. A big two thumbs up goes to Chris for helping out with the Fostex info😎 Dave🙂
DaveCan said:
Hey Dave, you don´t have to be so modest, you really are generous with your
suggestions and your help for me, altough i´m new here and i feel somewhat
pestering the regulars here with my humble requests and questions...
cheerio, Mirko
Scottmoose said:
Hallo Scott,
couldn´t respond earlier, had some real-life-issues to deal with...
well, i didn´t really mean that either (i´ve learned my lesson, that the TSP´s
are not accurate measurements), i just wanted to point out, that i was happy that
you think, that the Vas-value that Chris came up with, is a number that
finally can be trusted and is somewhat usable.
...That takes me to the point, where i have to make that big request:
Dear Scott: would you please be so kind and generous and do your
magic and calculate a spawn-type enclosure for the fe138es-r ??
you know, i have something like a recalculated smaller chilli-chang or kimchi-chang
in mind, it´s just such a sleek and elegant design, easy to build and with
a superb performance.
but of course only if you have the time for this and if you are really confident with
the data we now have and you think a mooseBVR can be done out of that.
I know i´m new here, and don´t have the right to ask for anything, and i also
know that the 138es-r is a really rare driver, which only a handful of people outside
of Japan will ever own, and even less would build a spawn for them, but OTOH,
consider that you will be probably the first one outside the Fostex Corp. to design
a cabinet for them...
and of course, just the basic dimension numbers will be just fine, no problem for
me to draw a plan out of given numbers.
thanks in advance
and very cheerful, Mirko
Hmm. Doesn't matter to me if you're new here or not -you've as much right to ask as anyone else.
You've hit on the reasons why I haven't done anything for the 138 already. I'll have a think about it & get back to you if I think it's feasible to do something.
You've hit on the reasons why I haven't done anything for the 138 already. I'll have a think about it & get back to you if I think it's feasible to do something.
Scottmoose said:
Yeah, ok, sometimes i´m begging just too hard....
...and, i´ll wait then patiently for you to think over it.
i totally agree that you don´t want to pull out some numbers that didn´t work
and again TIA, still cheerful, Mirko
bucky D-27 for 138ESR
in order to provide my new 2A3 amps (2 x 4 watt /8ohm) with some decent speakers, and to replace my rogers studio 1, i had the idea to build my own full range speakers.
i thought at first this was going to be sort of easy, the full range speakers are going around for such a long time and i thought the stretch of the elastic in innovations on this subject would well have been reached.
this is surely not the case, i came to understand; this is a very dynamic field and maybe a little dense too for a newby and with my non-electronics know how on this matter.
still i find it a challenge, so first i thought building my a set of frugel horns with enabled fostex 126E, then i thought building me a set of the dallas III with the 206E.
i have a large l shaped room (good acoustics though) in order to generate a little more bass and i really loved the curved design from these.
then as i read through the several threads i stumbled from the feastrex (outofmyleague) onto the fostex 138 esr and thought these might be the ones. following the link from mister balou i also found an enclosure that would please me and the wifey.
i found the bucky D37-138ESR, this is a modified tetsuo nagaoka design,
http://translate.google.com/transla...p/ybb_tatsuyan/&langpair=ja|en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
I am nearly going to make up my mind building me a set. the drivers are a bit expensive and there is a lot of wood involved, the whole thing including the assistance of my woodworking friend would add up to € 1500,- (baltic birch plywood). so i ordered a set of these drivers from koji from eifl.
dave from planet 10 told me the custom fostex enclosures have an average 24% hit. that's not very encouraging. so now i am left with little clues for my enclosure q.
any views on the succesrate of the bucky's? or should i go for a frugelhorn? or the A126? or just wait patiently for one of you to find some time to generate an illuminating design.
since there is this very limited supply of these drivers there won't be many of you diyers jumping into this loophole. so i support mister balou in his effort to encourage you to come up with some nice idea.
greetings from windy wet and nasty holland
~joris
my stereo set-up will look like this:
magique's 2A3 monoblocks
http://www.dhtrob.com/projecten/magique_1_en.htm
hat LA2 preamp
hat phono tube preamplfier PH2/PS2
fidelety research arm with a blue point in a thorens TD 165 mkIII
(soon to be exchanged for an EMT)
phillips cdd 882 cd player
meridian dac 263 e
onkyo integra T9090 tuner
rogers studio 1A speakers -->fostex 138 esr
in order to provide my new 2A3 amps (2 x 4 watt /8ohm) with some decent speakers, and to replace my rogers studio 1, i had the idea to build my own full range speakers.
i thought at first this was going to be sort of easy, the full range speakers are going around for such a long time and i thought the stretch of the elastic in innovations on this subject would well have been reached.
this is surely not the case, i came to understand; this is a very dynamic field and maybe a little dense too for a newby and with my non-electronics know how on this matter.
still i find it a challenge, so first i thought building my a set of frugel horns with enabled fostex 126E, then i thought building me a set of the dallas III with the 206E.
i have a large l shaped room (good acoustics though) in order to generate a little more bass and i really loved the curved design from these.
then as i read through the several threads i stumbled from the feastrex (outofmyleague) onto the fostex 138 esr and thought these might be the ones. following the link from mister balou i also found an enclosure that would please me and the wifey.
i found the bucky D37-138ESR, this is a modified tetsuo nagaoka design,
http://translate.google.com/transla...p/ybb_tatsuyan/&langpair=ja|en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
I am nearly going to make up my mind building me a set. the drivers are a bit expensive and there is a lot of wood involved, the whole thing including the assistance of my woodworking friend would add up to € 1500,- (baltic birch plywood). so i ordered a set of these drivers from koji from eifl.
dave from planet 10 told me the custom fostex enclosures have an average 24% hit. that's not very encouraging. so now i am left with little clues for my enclosure q.
any views on the succesrate of the bucky's? or should i go for a frugelhorn? or the A126? or just wait patiently for one of you to find some time to generate an illuminating design.
since there is this very limited supply of these drivers there won't be many of you diyers jumping into this loophole. so i support mister balou in his effort to encourage you to come up with some nice idea.
greetings from windy wet and nasty holland
~joris
my stereo set-up will look like this:
magique's 2A3 monoblocks
http://www.dhtrob.com/projecten/magique_1_en.htm
hat LA2 preamp
hat phono tube preamplfier PH2/PS2
fidelety research arm with a blue point in a thorens TD 165 mkIII
(soon to be exchanged for an EMT)
phillips cdd 882 cd player
meridian dac 263 e
onkyo integra T9090 tuner
rogers studio 1A speakers -->fostex 138 esr
Hi Joris,
welcome to the small club of 138es-r owners 😀 😀
i´m really happy, that atleast someone showed up, who bought
himself a pair of these fine drivers.
i think that you are really a brave man to choose these tricky ones
as your very first DIY-project AND your very first fullrange-project,
but to encourage you, what i´ve heard of my es-r so far, you won´t
be dissapointed with them, me thinks they really gonna shine bright
with a nice 2A3-amp.
erh, what does Dave mean with "the custom fostex enclosures have an average 24% hit" ??
my opinion about the D-37 is that what can be said of all the Fostex rercomendet
horn-designs, they usually sound quit nice, but are a bit lean in the basement, i read
about some llistening session in japan , which says that the D-37 has actually a weak
LF-response.
if you wanna go for a proven design, i think its more safe to build the swans
(but the WAF of the swans is way below zero).
my thoughts about an enclosure for the es-s is:
first choice would be a nice custom chang from Scott, and if thats not gonna happen
there are some alternatives, i still have the Frugels on my list, i think they would work
just fine, Ron´s horns a fine also, maybe it´s better to choose the A166, than the A126,
and lately i think about the BiB´s again, i have apair of BiB´s with FE168eS,
and they are awesome.
cheerio.... Mirko
welcome to the small club of 138es-r owners 😀 😀
i´m really happy, that atleast someone showed up, who bought
himself a pair of these fine drivers.
i think that you are really a brave man to choose these tricky ones
as your very first DIY-project AND your very first fullrange-project,
but to encourage you, what i´ve heard of my es-r so far, you won´t
be dissapointed with them, me thinks they really gonna shine bright
with a nice 2A3-amp.
erh, what does Dave mean with "the custom fostex enclosures have an average 24% hit" ??
my opinion about the D-37 is that what can be said of all the Fostex rercomendet
horn-designs, they usually sound quit nice, but are a bit lean in the basement, i read
about some llistening session in japan , which says that the D-37 has actually a weak
LF-response.
if you wanna go for a proven design, i think its more safe to build the swans
(but the WAF of the swans is way below zero).
my thoughts about an enclosure for the es-s is:
first choice would be a nice custom chang from Scott, and if thats not gonna happen
there are some alternatives, i still have the Frugels on my list, i think they would work
just fine, Ron´s horns a fine also, maybe it´s better to choose the A166, than the A126,
and lately i think about the BiB´s again, i have apair of BiB´s with FE168eS,
and they are awesome.
cheerio.... Mirko
M_Balou said:
Across all the factory Fostex enclosures i have seen, heard, heard about, that is an estimate of how many are better than adequate, and it seems that none of them achieve the heights that some of the more modern designs like the A126 or some of the spawns or the frugel-horn achieve.
You can be assured that if we had a solid Vas spec (BL would be nice too, but that falls out in the measures) that sims aplenty would be about for existing horns and that you might already see a Chang or something slotted between Saburo & Hiro.
If you want to do this right, one of you lucky guys who have found a way to afford a pair of these lovelys will just have to measure them. We could churn something out with the existing guesses, but you'd be pretty upset if you smoked thru 3 or 4 sheets of BB and all the time to assemble the pieces and find in the end that you had something only suitable for the bonfire 🙂
dave
In absense of anything else, i'd look to A126 or Frugel-Horn with a purposely larger air cavity that could be tuned with wooden blocks (or similar)... i don't know that these would be any better than a random selection from the 3 Fostex suggestions, but at least i would know that if they didn't work out i could get a pair of FE126s for them and use them as a 2nd system or sell or give them away.
dave
It's funny you said that Dave,
I was about to suggest building a spawn variant and using a removable baffle so that if it didn't work out, a replacement driver could easily be put into it.
I would like to hear that one of you guys built something with these drivers and could tell us how much better they really are.
Take care,
Robert
I was about to suggest building a spawn variant and using a removable baffle so that if it didn't work out, a replacement driver could easily be put into it.
I would like to hear that one of you guys built something with these drivers and could tell us how much better they really are.
Take care,
Robert
I looked at the D10 briefly, with the SWAG'd parameters, and if you want any LF at all, it's way too small. To a lesser extent, so are the Frugel-horn and A126 IMO. So, FWIW, I'd look toward over-sizing & then damping the thing down, as Dave notes.