Hi Scott, thank you very much! Out of curiosity, do you think "cable elevators" could be effective?
Ouch!
I was afraid of that: Shoot the snake oil believer!!!
rjbond3rd,
What Scott said about the patio cord.
It's the stuff you get @ Lowes. Ask Monte Verdi or Chris how it works.
No, the "black boxes" aren't cable elevators, they're not really black, no they aren't made by Transparent, and, no, I'm not referring to electrical resonance, or resistance, or iinductance, or capacitance...
Yes, I had read that article before, and believed most cable salesmen were snake oil salesmen....
I can't explain how they work, I don't really understand it.
I couldn't get many questions answered, I made the mistake of asking too specific technical questions at first (short on time), and was told "awaiting patent, will disclose more later, there are filters inside, yes, inductors and caps, but that's not what its about".
They claim to be addressing three issues:
Mains borne Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) - largely environmental, can be variable, but can also be interactive (for instance, many digital components 'push' a substantial amount of RFI back onto the mains, polluting the supplies to other components in the system).
Acoustic (vibrational) energy within component chassis - can be environmental, interactive and variable. Vibration might get into your components from the ground (up through the supports). It may be internally generated by devices such as transformers and optical disc transports, or just picked up from high sound pressure levels in your listening room.
Acoustic (vibrational) energy being passed around the system by all the interconnecting cables. Again this is a combination of effects. Transformers constantly send their vibrations around all the mains leads, vibration from speakers is fed back to the amplifier along the speaker leads. And, similar to ground borne vibration being fed into your system through a stand, it can also be fed into your mains loom through the sockets in your wall.
http://www.vertexaq.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/
Reviews:
http://www.thecrossovernetwork.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1834
http://www.vertexaq.com/images/stories/parallel universe_lowres.pdf
http://www.vertexaq.com/pdf/Alan Sircom review with Wilson speakers.pdf
http://www.smokingdrum.co.uk/2008/02/vertex-aq-jaya-review/
I do know that wearing a stethoscope, holding it to one end of a regular cable, you can hear scraping noises from just rubbing a penny across the other end of the cable.
The sound goes away with the vertex cable.
Cheap trick? Again, I dunno.
But they sure let a lot more music through.
It wasn't a subtle change.
r
I was afraid of that: Shoot the snake oil believer!!!
rjbond3rd,
What Scott said about the patio cord.
It's the stuff you get @ Lowes. Ask Monte Verdi or Chris how it works.
No, the "black boxes" aren't cable elevators, they're not really black, no they aren't made by Transparent, and, no, I'm not referring to electrical resonance, or resistance, or iinductance, or capacitance...
Yes, I had read that article before, and believed most cable salesmen were snake oil salesmen....
I can't explain how they work, I don't really understand it.
I couldn't get many questions answered, I made the mistake of asking too specific technical questions at first (short on time), and was told "awaiting patent, will disclose more later, there are filters inside, yes, inductors and caps, but that's not what its about".
They claim to be addressing three issues:
Mains borne Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) - largely environmental, can be variable, but can also be interactive (for instance, many digital components 'push' a substantial amount of RFI back onto the mains, polluting the supplies to other components in the system).
Acoustic (vibrational) energy within component chassis - can be environmental, interactive and variable. Vibration might get into your components from the ground (up through the supports). It may be internally generated by devices such as transformers and optical disc transports, or just picked up from high sound pressure levels in your listening room.
Acoustic (vibrational) energy being passed around the system by all the interconnecting cables. Again this is a combination of effects. Transformers constantly send their vibrations around all the mains leads, vibration from speakers is fed back to the amplifier along the speaker leads. And, similar to ground borne vibration being fed into your system through a stand, it can also be fed into your mains loom through the sockets in your wall.
http://www.vertexaq.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/
Reviews:
http://www.thecrossovernetwork.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1834
http://www.vertexaq.com/images/stories/parallel universe_lowres.pdf
http://www.vertexaq.com/pdf/Alan Sircom review with Wilson speakers.pdf
http://www.smokingdrum.co.uk/2008/02/vertex-aq-jaya-review/
I do know that wearing a stethoscope, holding it to one end of a regular cable, you can hear scraping noises from just rubbing a penny across the other end of the cable.
The sound goes away with the vertex cable.
Cheap trick? Again, I dunno.
But they sure let a lot more music through.
It wasn't a subtle change.
r
serenechaos said:
Vertex AQ IIRC. Little aluminum boxes that as i understand it remove mechanical resonance form the wire so that one component does not transmit it to another.
HiFI+ has been going on to a great extent of late on how important they feel that a consistent cable loom and supports are. This harks back to an old colleage who got a lot of mileage out of anti-resonance devices.
There is i believe some ground to be explored here -- but so many minefields.
dave
(posted this before reading serenechaos post above)
Very true.
I really should check the commercial mags. a little more often than I do, but when Hifi+ started promoting £10,000 mains cables, I lost the will to live & haven't bought another since then. I do remember them starting to get interested in Vertex products though.
Reading between the lines WRT these 'acoustic absorbtion modules', it looks to me like they've slapped an RLC network on the things to bandwidth limit them, & possibly stuck some resistance in there too, to try & stop any undesireable feedback from speaker to amplifier, or at least, push it to a very low level. That's actually one of the supposed benefits of using very thin / resistive wire too (it works, to an extent). I'm not sure I like the idea of added networks etc., overly much though -connections generally cause more problems than wire ever has, so sticking a bunch more in there is not IMHO a great idea, although that's just me. I don't doubt they system sounded good with them in though, especially if they were well suited to the amplifier / speakers.
I really should check the commercial mags. a little more often than I do, but when Hifi+ started promoting £10,000 mains cables, I lost the will to live & haven't bought another since then. I do remember them starting to get interested in Vertex products though.
Reading between the lines WRT these 'acoustic absorbtion modules', it looks to me like they've slapped an RLC network on the things to bandwidth limit them, & possibly stuck some resistance in there too, to try & stop any undesireable feedback from speaker to amplifier, or at least, push it to a very low level. That's actually one of the supposed benefits of using very thin / resistive wire too (it works, to an extent). I'm not sure I like the idea of added networks etc., overly much though -connections generally cause more problems than wire ever has, so sticking a bunch more in there is not IMHO a great idea, although that's just me. I don't doubt they system sounded good with them in though, especially if they were well suited to the amplifier / speakers.
rjbond3rd said:
No. They're an unutterable waste of time & money, and the people who flog them for outrageous sums must be laughing their heads off all the way to the bank. When I come to power, I shall make the marketing & selling of them for audio use punishable by 6 months 'at Her Majesty's Pleasure.'
If you really want to try it, you can DIY some easily enough. Just cut up some scrap MDF into rectangles (or whatever) with a trough in the top for snouts to be inserted... no no! Bad Scott. Slapped wrist. Mmmm. Naughty. I meant 'wire to be reverentially laid in.' Oh yes. 😉
In all seriousness, if you did try it, probably best if you glued two or three together so they don't tip over. Paint or veneer if the mood strikes you, and that's really about all you'd need to do. Surely life is too short though? I wouldn't bet a brass fathing on you hearing any difference whatsoever.
Scottmoose said:
A magazine well worth getting, even if you never read a word ofthe text, there is much to be "borrowed" just from the pictures.
dave
A fair cop. BB would be far superior. 😉
Good point Dave. I'll buy the new edition in the morning out of interest.
Good point Dave. I'll buy the new edition in the morning out of interest.
you guys are so esoteric.
i wuz gonna just suggest cutting scrap 2x4s, like Steve Deckert told me he used with Romex...
i wuz gonna just suggest cutting scrap 2x4s, like Steve Deckert told me he used with Romex...
I just save up all my toilet paper rolls and use them to elevate my speaker wires.. I noticed a huge improvement in sound stage and just a better overall balance, amazing really.. Curiously I found that using 7 toilet paper rolls per speaker cable as apposed to the 9 I had tried at first, made a significant difference in my room with sq.. The next step is to enable those suckers, then I expect to really be experiencing all the magic my system can muster!! 
Dave🙂
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Dave🙂
Big winds here last weekend. Power lines down, ground covered in broken insulators, er, "cable -elevators". I can ship anywhere, anytime!
(guaranteed correct polarity)
Sheesh, what next??
Don
(guaranteed correct polarity)
Sheesh, what next??
Don
BTW, make sure to use a 100% recycled toilet paper product such as:
The toilet rolls in this type of paper are aged more than the first run toilet paper product, plus the recycled product is better on the environment, not to mention your @#&.. Just as your loudspeaker drivers sound better aged than fresh out of the box, so the same applies to the cable elevators..
I'm presently working on a method of tweaking these little cylinders that should amaze and benefit almost any system regardless of cost, plus I expect these cable elevators of mine to have high WAF and to be one of the most cost effective tweaks for your system bar none!!..
All inquires are welcome, but my site is still under development so you'll have to contact me directly.. I'm trying to keep the cost as low as possible, so I'm offering these little wonders at $20.00 per roll ( cable elevator) with a pre-order price of $17.00 per roll.. Shipping is extra, and the minimum recommended for ultimate effect is 14 rolls ( cable elevators)..
Dave🙂
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The toilet rolls in this type of paper are aged more than the first run toilet paper product, plus the recycled product is better on the environment, not to mention your @#&.. Just as your loudspeaker drivers sound better aged than fresh out of the box, so the same applies to the cable elevators..
I'm presently working on a method of tweaking these little cylinders that should amaze and benefit almost any system regardless of cost, plus I expect these cable elevators of mine to have high WAF and to be one of the most cost effective tweaks for your system bar none!!..
All inquires are welcome, but my site is still under development so you'll have to contact me directly.. I'm trying to keep the cost as low as possible, so I'm offering these little wonders at $20.00 per roll ( cable elevator) with a pre-order price of $17.00 per roll.. Shipping is extra, and the minimum recommended for ultimate effect is 14 rolls ( cable elevators)..
Dave🙂
All this hullabaloo about cable elevators. Why spend the money ? Just run your cables as short as possible from your amp to your speakers, pulling the cables taught like an overhead AC service.
This will eliminate any contact with the ground (physical isolation), put tension on the wire connections keeping them in a good state of contact, and provide a more "natural" magnetic radiation pattern for the field emanting from the wires.
High tension speaker cables. If it's good enough for Com Ed. . . .😉
.....................Blake
This will eliminate any contact with the ground (physical isolation), put tension on the wire connections keeping them in a good state of contact, and provide a more "natural" magnetic radiation pattern for the field emanting from the wires.
High tension speaker cables. If it's good enough for Com Ed. . . .😉
.....................Blake
Actually, if you remove the speaker cables entirely you need no accessories to elevate them, and I will guarantee that your system will then:
(a) be free of speaker-cable-related artifacts; and,
(b) any other system anomalies will become completely inaudible.
DaveCan, sorry to destroy your budding enterprise, mate.
(a) be free of speaker-cable-related artifacts; and,
(b) any other system anomalies will become completely inaudible.
DaveCan, sorry to destroy your budding enterprise, mate.
Hi Robert, this would make an excellent episode of Mythbusters! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MythBusters
cbdb said:Put your money where your mouth is. Look up the PEAR cable challange (some debunker will give YOU a million dollars if you can hear the difference between $7k speaker wires and generic heavey gauge.) Let me know when your buying us all beer.
Any $7K speaker wire or just one that's known not to work?
I have read that several people have attempted to collect this prize offer with an endless list of excuses why the prize didn't apply to them.
I personally have never tried nor do I personally know anyone who has.
cbdb said:Put your money where your mouth is. Look up the PEAR cable challange (some debunker will give YOU a million dollars if you can hear the difference between $7k speaker wires and generic heavey gauge.) Let me know when your buying us all beer.
What a bright head. Noone can hear any difference between these two cables as long as there aren`t any
- Status
- Not open for further replies.