What driver do you have by the way ?
It is difficult to say, results will depend on measures, eq, dsp....
What is sure is that sealed will be more difficult to tune but could get better results.
As it is quite difficult to measure low frequencies at home, could be tricky...
Bigger amp and less SPL also
It is difficult to say, results will depend on measures, eq, dsp....
What is sure is that sealed will be more difficult to tune but could get better results.
As it is quite difficult to measure low frequencies at home, could be tricky...
Bigger amp and less SPL also
With quite high QTS around 0.4 it is also possible to tune below the FS and could result in an intermediate behaviour between sealed and higher than fs tuned ported box
^Me? I've got the 15fh520 and old Beyma 15k200. First I got the 15fh520 and it was fine, then I bought the 15k200 to see if there is any difference and it has been in since in my 3-way prototype speaker. Not because it was better but because I'm not sure if there is any difference so haven't bothered swapping them back but instead concentrated to better mid and tweeter in the system since. I've got mono prototype going about 3 years I guess. Slow progress, had year long house renovation and now no space to do woodwork (winter time) etc. Bass is again on the table when I need to build a stereo pair but before that I need to evaluate new waveguides etc. 😀 Big enclosures take some time and space to build.
Current enclosure is about 80l net and tuning seems to be quite high some 48Hz or so and the sound is fine. For sure next box is sealed, I want more low extension without going any bigger enclosure. This is already too big so perhaps I'll investigate what would be smallest fine woofer with subwoofer system hidden in the furniture. But for now this is the stage I'm at and gonna finish stereo pair before going into that I think. Building the system for family living room, so on wall and trying to make it "invisible" or at least not catch the eye. Although, some big prototypes are kind of eye sore, not there yet 😀
Check out REW, and about room EQ, one can and should use EQ to better in-room response. Amps are cheap and DSP as well, only thing one needs to pay for is to get noise down. Chinese amp and DSP stuff is very capable and cheap, but tend to be noisy and perhaps unreliable. I think amplifiers make difference to sound, but there is a lot more difference between small bookshelf speaker vs. big three way even if not implemented optimally. The big one is heck of a lot of fun even with cheap chinese amps.
Current enclosure is about 80l net and tuning seems to be quite high some 48Hz or so and the sound is fine. For sure next box is sealed, I want more low extension without going any bigger enclosure. This is already too big so perhaps I'll investigate what would be smallest fine woofer with subwoofer system hidden in the furniture. But for now this is the stage I'm at and gonna finish stereo pair before going into that I think. Building the system for family living room, so on wall and trying to make it "invisible" or at least not catch the eye. Although, some big prototypes are kind of eye sore, not there yet 😀
Check out REW, and about room EQ, one can and should use EQ to better in-room response. Amps are cheap and DSP as well, only thing one needs to pay for is to get noise down. Chinese amp and DSP stuff is very capable and cheap, but tend to be noisy and perhaps unreliable. I think amplifiers make difference to sound, but there is a lot more difference between small bookshelf speaker vs. big three way even if not implemented optimally. The big one is heck of a lot of fun even with cheap chinese amps.
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Some here would argue that freestanding waveguide is more than fine 🙂 Any type of baffle introduces negative impact on performance when compared to freestanding waveguide with lipover.
Perhaps, but do you know if it benefits at all? I mean the room would change the response to unrecognizable. As long as the box is not silly, like very big or very small it is all fine, as long as the whole system is considered. Unless looking for max SPL capability at some certain frequency for some particular application. I just think this is not important at all on a big multiway speaker, you should use EQ anyway which is capable of changing all this. It is fun and interesting to think about the bass box tuning stuff, but there are million things to consider on speaker system and this is about the easiest to fix afterwards without obvious trade-offs (other than cost and complexity) and is the most hard to predict thing until you have built a box and measured in situation. Prototyping is the best way to go, purchase few different drivers that are interesting to you and try them out. Best way to see if either is better in your application. No amount of internet advice will help on this one 🙂
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exactly! I'm referring to waveguides available on the PA market, ment to be mounted on a baffle. And I would argue the performance is same or better without the baffle even if there was no lipover/roundover!🙂
It might be possible to get little bit less diffraction with some fabricated roundovers = minimal baffle with roundovers and mount the waveguide on that, but then again if the waveguide profile was not designed this in mind all the way from the throat it won't provide much better performance. This is my reasoning by studying diffraction in general, measurements of few devices I have (STH100, RCF H100) and playing around with the ATH script and simulations.
All ways on same box is nice for live audio use since the speaker is moved in and out for every session. But for home this is not the case. In addition freestanding waveguide makes the complete build so much easier I almost cried when I realized that I don't have to do anything to get better performance 😀 Looks is pretty much the only thing that could dictate waveguide into a baffle but I don't know any other valid reason to do so. Some defend the bass box can have more internal volume if expanded to incorporate the waveguide as well. Well yes, but the room makes the bass anyway so few extra litres of space for bass while trading-off some diffraction performance is counter productive to me. Bass is easily fixed adding more boxes, which one should do anyway to even out the room response.
Well, there are many kinds of applications and personal preferences etc. For audio performance at home, freestanding waveguide does not have any down sides no matter if it was designed as freestanding or not, or at least I haven't been able to figure out one. Best thing would be to design/buy waveguide that was ment to be freestanding.
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I wanted to build bass towers and got my self eight B&C 15NW76 Qts 0.21. Before build the towers I A/B tested 15NW76 with 18Sound 15W700 Qts 0.3. Same box, same 40 Hz tuning. Not even closed! In home environment and limited wattage , even thought it was extremly loud,15NW76 sound tiny, like huge midrange. 18Sound prodused nice tone and a lot of bass. I try it in different variants , even add resistors to raise Qts for B&C - but still - no bass, you need a lot of power to make them work. I change 18Sound for JBL 2035HPL and they produced even more articulated bass and kick. 2035HPL Qts is 0.34. In the end I put the B&C in basshorn and then... they kick like a mule. Crystal clear sound with huge impact. But again - power hungry. Not for home. IMHO
Attachments
Thanks for this review, interesting but to me horns and exotic cabs are difficult to predict and to try at home...
I found a nice driver from a French company.
.could be good for home use due to low FS...
Phl 5021
http://lsv-achenbach.de/images/lautsprecher/test/kt_test_phl-b38-5021.jpg
I found a nice driver from a French company.
.could be good for home use due to low FS...
Phl 5021
http://lsv-achenbach.de/images/lautsprecher/test/kt_test_phl-b38-5021.jpg
I wonder if I am not starting to want that 8NMB420 or other 8" to be able to run the mids between 200 and 2500...
What do you think, every body want the mids to go low right ?
What do you think, every body want the mids to go low right ?
Hello I have some difficulties with Winisd to understand the size of the rectangular vents for the Faital 15FH500 in 70 liters or 100 liters
I already have rectangular events in my old cabinet of
Height: 28cm
Width: 3.60 cm
Length 16cm
So I can only reduce the height by 28 cm
I have two events
I already have rectangular events in my old cabinet of
Height: 28cm
Width: 3.60 cm
Length 16cm
So I can only reduce the height by 28 cm
I have two events
To me it is the surface that matters. So you should find the same as a circle with same surface (corrections of flow losses appart)
Hello there,
I Hope all the contributors have been fine since last year...
I have been experiencing my system with sealed 15" BMS 15s330 in a sealed corrected box. It had to work a lot on the room to get good results. At least possibility to measure.
They are paired with PHL 1140 in JBL waveguide and faital hf108r and sth100.
So very promising speakers, of course you are always wondering if you should add more bass or not.
I measure with rew and I also got me a fantastic headphone from hedd : heddphone.
Anyway, here is the problem.
Left subwoofer starts to have creepy noise, vibration from inside. I guess the coil got damaged.
I think I should have limited bandwidth to 40hz as these are no subs.
On the other hand, amp is only lab gruppen lab 500 not so powerful.
Question: shall I get a new one and limit excursion?
I am still convinced that corrected sealed creates good sound. Hedd monitor offer the possibility to go sealed.
Shall I get heavier woofers ?
Thanks for your help. Greg.
Hi,
doing fine, hopefully everyone else as well 🙂
while I cannot say whats wrong with the woofer I can imagine few reasons why a woofer would fail. Either there was fault in manufacturing, like bad glue, or it has been damaged in operation. It could have gone to mechanical xmax, although small closed box ought to reduce possibility of such occurence compared to a reflex box. On the other hand closed boxes, especially with EQ'd low end can heat up. If you have been making long parties with loud output its possible there is heat damage.
If you find a recone set you could repair the damaged woofer. I guess color change in voice coil/former would indicate heat. This would then indicate you that you'd need either bigger woofers or more woofers, perhaps both 🙂 in order to reach same SPL with less amplifier power, less heat.
Loudspeaker drivers are very inefficient, only few percent of power through voice coil turns into sound while the rest turns into heat, almost all of it.
doing fine, hopefully everyone else as well 🙂
while I cannot say whats wrong with the woofer I can imagine few reasons why a woofer would fail. Either there was fault in manufacturing, like bad glue, or it has been damaged in operation. It could have gone to mechanical xmax, although small closed box ought to reduce possibility of such occurence compared to a reflex box. On the other hand closed boxes, especially with EQ'd low end can heat up. If you have been making long parties with loud output its possible there is heat damage.
If you find a recone set you could repair the damaged woofer. I guess color change in voice coil/former would indicate heat. This would then indicate you that you'd need either bigger woofers or more woofers, perhaps both 🙂 in order to reach same SPL with less amplifier power, less heat.
Loudspeaker drivers are very inefficient, only few percent of power through voice coil turns into sound while the rest turns into heat, almost all of it.
Thanks,
I think it is possible that maybe I went too far in excursion...even in jazz nowadays they can throw some sub frequencies...
I could try one more time this speaker with more care (40hz filter, less power), that would be simplest c/and cheapest method.
I am waiting for news from tlhp, see if they can repare or if I buy a new one, it is not that expensive (266 euros).
Greg.
I think it is possible that maybe I went too far in excursion...even in jazz nowadays they can throw some sub frequencies...
I could try one more time this speaker with more care (40hz filter, less power), that would be simplest c/and cheapest method.
I am waiting for news from tlhp, see if they can repare or if I buy a new one, it is not that expensive (266 euros).
Greg.
Well... I have my 3 way prototype up and running. This is what I've found so far:
Box shape for woofer Faitalpro 15 FH 500 could be improved because of resonance around 195hz. So I added more stuffing and made it a sealed box. I think this sounds better. The woofer needs eq to hear the bass. It's definitely not a subwoofer but it's very quick and articulate with good "bass texture". Currently Xo to mid is around 250hz. The midrange, 18sound 8nmb420 in a 17.5 litre enclosure did not produce much SPL below 300- 400Hz and needed EQ, to both lift bottom end and to deal with response irregularities (diffraction an room reflections I am thinking) The horn section was the easiest, producing smooth sound without much diffraction at all from 1800 hz to around 12 khz. I did use eq to lift response above 5k to 12 k and only light eq to flatten 3k rise. It doesn't have the sparkle that some people like from high end tweeters but it is a really nice smooth detailed sound and so dynamic! Overall the system sound is so effortless and lively
Percussion instruments are amazingly dynamic. Improvments needed now include remeasuring the impulse responses of the drivers to dial in time alignment, I have reversed the polarity of the mid driver but I don't think it will be necessary once it is properly time aligned. Remeasure mid and tweeter outside using gated response of REW. and use ground plane technique for woofer. Just need the time to do this. Thanks all for your interest so far
Box shape for woofer Faitalpro 15 FH 500 could be improved because of resonance around 195hz. So I added more stuffing and made it a sealed box. I think this sounds better. The woofer needs eq to hear the bass. It's definitely not a subwoofer but it's very quick and articulate with good "bass texture". Currently Xo to mid is around 250hz. The midrange, 18sound 8nmb420 in a 17.5 litre enclosure did not produce much SPL below 300- 400Hz and needed EQ, to both lift bottom end and to deal with response irregularities (diffraction an room reflections I am thinking) The horn section was the easiest, producing smooth sound without much diffraction at all from 1800 hz to around 12 khz. I did use eq to lift response above 5k to 12 k and only light eq to flatten 3k rise. It doesn't have the sparkle that some people like from high end tweeters but it is a really nice smooth detailed sound and so dynamic! Overall the system sound is so effortless and lively
Percussion instruments are amazingly dynamic. Improvments needed now include remeasuring the impulse responses of the drivers to dial in time alignment, I have reversed the polarity of the mid driver but I don't think it will be necessary once it is properly time aligned. Remeasure mid and tweeter outside using gated response of REW. and use ground plane technique for woofer. Just need the time to do this. Thanks all for your interest so far