G'day X,
I'm convinced that any surface with protrusions will have an impact.
Same question of whether the change is audible applies and then of course the subjective question of whether it makes things sound better, worse or just different.
Cheers,
Alex
I'm calling your theory pseudo science not the Navier-Stokes equations.Anyway, I'm not saying any more about this because it's so stupid so you can have the last word.
Ha ha ha! You call my use of the well known technique of dimensional analysis and description of the well known effect of surface roughness on the transition of aerodynamic flows from laminar to turbulent flow my theory? It was Stokes who developed it in the late 1800's, and Reynolds who popularized it later with his ground breaking discovery of the transition from laminar flows to turbulent flows in pipes and its correlation to the number which is now named number after him. You give me too much credit.
But to call my idea stupid was you trying to get the last word. You need to stop the personal attacks and discuss the topic. I think anyone who checks on the background of what I have laid out will see that it is all based on accepted principles of engineering analysis.
It's good to question and sometimes be doubtful - that is the source of progress, but one has to be careful not to let doubt turn into ignorance.
But to call my idea stupid was you trying to get the last word. You need to stop the personal attacks and discuss the topic. I think anyone who checks on the background of what I have laid out will see that it is all based on accepted principles of engineering analysis.
It's good to question and sometimes be doubtful - that is the source of progress, but one has to be careful not to let doubt turn into ignorance.
Well said.
Just to add fuel to this fire: I put the speaker grills on my speakers after enabling just the left one (so the pattern was not visible) and sat my father down to listen to the speakers. I had just moved them into a new room, and despite them sounding well balanced before the enable pattern, when I asked my father for "listening impressions" he said "You left-right balance is off." so... seems it's not entirely placebo.
Surface roughness and aerodynamic flows? I have no problem with that, I struggle with the idea that a specific pattern painted onto the surface of an enclosure has a beneficial effect.
Not exactly a double blind trial is it? Did you say "Don't you think the one with the dots sounds better Dad?"
I didn't say anything. I just asked how they sounded and that was his response. I didn't mention afterward that there was any difference with the speakers because I'm going to enable the other speaker and see if he thinks that the balance is back to normal. If he says it is, then the enable was probably doing something because thats the only thing changed. And my father has never heard of enabl, nor could he visually recognize any difference between the before and after. The enabl is the only variable in the trials.
The balance was fine before the enable. Before I enabled, my brother heard the cabinets in the room. He was helping with the placement, and after I had them where I wanted I asked him for his opinion and he said it was fine (he's not much of an audiophile though) and was probably getting bored. At that point in time I wasn't planning on enabling, so I set them up to sound best in the room, and the balance was pretty good. I then enabled the left one a couple days later, and did not move the speaker during the process. The sound stage did shift.
The balance was fine before the enable. Before I enabled, my brother heard the cabinets in the room. He was helping with the placement, and after I had them where I wanted I asked him for his opinion and he said it was fine (he's not much of an audiophile though) and was probably getting bored. At that point in time I wasn't planning on enabling, so I set them up to sound best in the room, and the balance was pretty good. I then enabled the left one a couple days later, and did not move the speaker during the process. The sound stage did shift.
The treatment was not applied to the grill. It was applied to the cabinet and then the grills put back on, which covered up the pattern. This did diminish the enabl's effect slightly, since at some points the grills frame was over the pattern.
The enabl pattern was done with electrical tape, and a guide used to apply the tape blocks evenly. During the process I began doubting it because it seemed so dumb. Tape blocks changing how the speaker sounds. But I didn't want to discredit it till I tried it.
As to the sample size stuff... sure my test is not good enough if my goal was to eventually market it or something like that. But for my personal use, in my own home, by me, what I hear ultimately is all that really matters. My father's testimony just validates that I'm not crazy.
The enabl pattern was done with electrical tape, and a guide used to apply the tape blocks evenly. During the process I began doubting it because it seemed so dumb. Tape blocks changing how the speaker sounds. But I didn't want to discredit it till I tried it.
As to the sample size stuff... sure my test is not good enough if my goal was to eventually market it or something like that. But for my personal use, in my own home, by me, what I hear ultimately is all that really matters. My father's testimony just validates that I'm not crazy.
Its because of the Navier-Stokes equations...
I have read some of the other technical discussion about what's happening with the boundary layer physics. From my understanding, as the sound wave travels from the driver along the cabinet, it moves slower near the cabinets surface than the sound traveling further from the surface. This is due to the friction between the air and cabinet material. This prevents a smooth propagation of the sound wave near the cabinet, and issues with the sound wave possibly changing waveform and pitch. When it reaches an edge of the cabinet, this affected sound wave is free to radiate away from the cabinet and reflect of walls etc. until it reaches your ear. The enabl pattern, due to material and shape and placement, break up and absorb the sound waves that are traveling near the cabinet's surface before they reach the edge of the cabinet and radiate freely. by removing these distorted sound waves, you get better sound.
In the picture, you can see how even a perfectly smooth laminar flow is affected by the surface. Sound coming from a speaker is most definitely not laminar, so the sound waves radiance would probably look like the second diagram.
I have read some of the other technical discussion about what's happening with the boundary layer physics. From my understanding, as the sound wave travels from the driver along the cabinet, it moves slower near the cabinets surface than the sound traveling further from the surface. This is due to the friction between the air and cabinet material. This prevents a smooth propagation of the sound wave near the cabinet, and issues with the sound wave possibly changing waveform and pitch. When it reaches an edge of the cabinet, this affected sound wave is free to radiate away from the cabinet and reflect of walls etc. until it reaches your ear. The enabl pattern, due to material and shape and placement, break up and absorb the sound waves that are traveling near the cabinet's surface before they reach the edge of the cabinet and radiate freely. by removing these distorted sound waves, you get better sound.
In the picture, you can see how even a perfectly smooth laminar flow is affected by the surface. Sound coming from a speaker is most definitely not laminar, so the sound waves radiance would probably look like the second diagram.
Attachments
![PHYS%20100%20Boundary%20Layer[1] copy.jpg](/community/data/attachments/295/295357-8de783ac44e1cb615d0abb6f00787854.jpg)
Technically, you are correct. But I also think it's a bit specious to say there's no value at all in a semi-blind "DIY" test. After all, isn't this entire site DIY? Assuming we can trust what Dumbledog wrote, it's helpful information for the discussion. Does it prove anything? Of course not. Does a true double blind test prove anything?
You know, I'm open to what you are saying, except that you've not provided any science to back up your points. To say sound waves propagate rather than flow is partly true but isn't, I think, the whole story. At the very least, there can be no propagation unless there's at least some movement to propagate. Ever watch the movement of an object bouncing on ocean waves? Up/down and sideways movement even thought the net movement is more or less zero.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but please provide some meat to your comments! Explain why Navier-Stokes equations aren't relevant, why the movement that does occur during sound wave propagation isn't enough to cause any effect, etc etc. Otherwise you comments just sound pointless to me.
I unfortunately have nothing to add to the discussion b/c I recognize I don't know much about the subject But I do know when theory is being applied and when one is just acting like a doubting thomas.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.