Um, the Mundorf AMT's are stellar performers in terms of frequency response, dynamic range (power handling), lack of compression, distortion and low energy storage.
While I remain open to the idea that can be had for less (and some dome tweets are very very good for under $50) just because Dayton offers an AMT does not put it in the same league. Like a lot of other drivers, you pay a lot for flat. Not having to compensate for the FR in the crossover is a big deal.
I've heard AMT's sound absolutely terrible.
Likewise the Scanspeak Illuminator woofers have incredibly good linearity. Not everyone needs that, or cares, but if you do, their performance in that dimension is worth it to me. The Revelators have almost as good linearity, and they share the incredible bass extension for small drivers. They are also both very good in terms of distortion.
Of course, the trick is not to buy a $500 tweeter, it's to find a $30 tweeter that sounds as good as the $500 and if you can do that, great, but beware easy comparisons on published specs. Like the loudspeakers of the 80's, they don't tell you everything.
Best,
Erik
While I remain open to the idea that can be had for less (and some dome tweets are very very good for under $50) just because Dayton offers an AMT does not put it in the same league. Like a lot of other drivers, you pay a lot for flat. Not having to compensate for the FR in the crossover is a big deal.
I've heard AMT's sound absolutely terrible.
Likewise the Scanspeak Illuminator woofers have incredibly good linearity. Not everyone needs that, or cares, but if you do, their performance in that dimension is worth it to me. The Revelators have almost as good linearity, and they share the incredible bass extension for small drivers. They are also both very good in terms of distortion.
Of course, the trick is not to buy a $500 tweeter, it's to find a $30 tweeter that sounds as good as the $500 and if you can do that, great, but beware easy comparisons on published specs. Like the loudspeakers of the 80's, they don't tell you everything.
Best,
Erik
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To play my own devil's advocate, some of what keeps good drivers so expensive is market driven. There is a very strong (but not absolute) correlation between driver retail costs and speaker prices. More or less (but not perfectly) vendors charge about 10:1 for drivers. Cabinetry and crossover parts rarely figure into this.
Given that, if I want to make a $20,000 pair of speakers, I have to find a way to spend $2,000 in drivers.
I know a lot would like to jump on me, because there are exceptions, especially with makers that manufacture their own drivers, and the number isn't fixed in stone, but please, keep the gist of my argument and the context (high end speakers) in mind.
Best,
Erik
Given that, if I want to make a $20,000 pair of speakers, I have to find a way to spend $2,000 in drivers.
I know a lot would like to jump on me, because there are exceptions, especially with makers that manufacture their own drivers, and the number isn't fixed in stone, but please, keep the gist of my argument and the context (high end speakers) in mind.
Best,
Erik
Although I don't doubt this Eton could be made to work out fine in a 2 way, I'd suggest you consider a true sealed box drive unit like this. No doubt a truly high quality piece of technology, with the right waveguide tweeter a candidate for
Acoustic Elegance Dipole10 woofer for Open Baffle Applications
I have not run a sim, but are you saying even though this is labelled as being for open baffle designs, it is also optimum for sealed designs?
Cd work nicely in a classic wide baffle Harbeth style enclosure (but sealed) Using a small cone mid, maybe the 3" Hex from same company.
$200 isnt overpriced, if it works for intended design
$200 isnt overpriced, if it works for intended design
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I personally like the Eton "sound" but also agree there are better designs out there. I had good success with many different Eton woofers and mids over the years. They can't be pushed very hard though so if you like loud or have a large room; you might consider other brands and designs.
I think for the money, the Satori line from SB Acoustics is really hard to beat. Similar to the Illuminators in many ways but much less expensive. Give the Satori line a SERIOUS look!
I think for the money, the Satori line from SB Acoustics is really hard to beat. Similar to the Illuminators in many ways but much less expensive. Give the Satori line a SERIOUS look!
Hello Charlie,
What suggestions do you have for an 8" woofer that can cross at 1.5K and goes down to mid 40's F3 in a 1 cubic foot sealed box that is substantially less money?
Thank you,
David.
Although dynamic (cone) drivers are old technology; new fancy cone materials evolve and make a difference. Adding graphene to the magnesium cone makes it better?
E0073-08 W16NX003
http://www.seas.no/images/SEAS_Graphene_White_Paper.pdf
E0073-08 W16NX003
http://www.seas.no/images/SEAS_Graphene_White_Paper.pdf
Usable bandwidth of 200 to 1000 Hz looks good for a mid/ mid woofer in a three way set up. I don't know about a 2 way. Eton makes some pretty good drivers so I would think that this one is no exception.
Saying the thruth. Ever looked how simple a midrange's construction is?. Why would it be so expensive to manufacture?, cuz they use carbovinyl- thetrahetyl polychlorate sandwich cones?!.
A big woofer, (the aluminum basket is the single, most expensive component), may be more expensive, and AMT or ribbon tweeters too but a simple midrange!?. Think about it 🙄
When you say the word ''Audiophile'', they simply triple the price.
True on the Audiophile thing. Just look at the multitude of interconnects available, but the most expensive part of a speaker is it's magnet. It takes a giant jolt of electricity to zap the magnet slug into life. This is especially true with long throw sub woofers that have stacks of magnets.
$200.00 for a German made speaker isn't really all that bad in relative terms considering how the Germans like to charge you premium for that "German engineering" that they are so famous for.
One thing about company's like SS, Seas and the like is they exist to supply a rather niche market of DIY enthusiasts like ourselves. There is a very limited market share to go around. So unless you are supplying the OEM market with speakers for your bread and butter and doing the DIY thing on the side where you can offer speakers for less (Dayton, Peerless, Tang band, ect) you almost have to charge more and hope the marketing hype is good enough to make believers out of us. At least company's like Scan Speak do make exceptionally good speakers and have great QC. So even if you think you where over charged, at the end of the day, you won't be disappointed with the way they sound.
One thing about company's like SS, Seas and the like is they exist to supply a rather niche market of DIY enthusiasts like ourselves. There is a very limited market share to go around. So unless you are supplying the OEM market with speakers for your bread and butter and doing the DIY thing on the side where you can offer speakers for less (Dayton, Peerless, Tang band, ect) you almost have to charge more and hope the marketing hype is good enough to make believers out of us. At least company's like Scan Speak do make exceptionally good speakers and have great QC. So even if you think you where over charged, at the end of the day, you won't be disappointed with the way they sound.
I have to say I am currently listen to some speakers that use the Eton 4-203 drivers that I bought around 1990 or so. Paying $85 a pop for midranges then may seem a bit steep, but sometime it keeps you from buying something new.
Any driver with a low enough Fs and high enough Qts, can be considered good for a sealed box. The goal is to find yourself an acceptable Qtc and Fb. An optimum choice is a relative term.
Another option is the Hivi 8" gold cone. Works ok sealed. V good value - yes itisnt easy to cross but go for that Peerless ceramic 32mm tweet, to cross around 1.5khz
Try getting an F3 of 39 Hz from an 8" in a 30L sealed enclosure. Nobody but Eton apeears able to do that. I've been looking around and believe the Eton 8-412/C8/32 maybe my next woofers. I am far less concerned withe price, assuming the sound is good. I paid more for my Scanspeaks and the sound quality is outstanding. I have no regrets and would gladly pay the price for the ETONs if they also sound very good. Can anyone comment on the sound quality of these drivers?
I know I couldn't find one.
It bugs me when people say, "Oh, that's too much money, there are much better choices", and don't offer a single one.
Did anyone get their hands on a Eton 8-412/C8/32 so far? I'd love to build 3way with it but I can't even find the chassis to buy online lol
I used this in a single woofer build (sealed) and I love it. I have a nearfield measurement of its response. Mid 40's which is about what it should be. It has excellent detailing and transient response.
It's not used in a huge room, a bit long but not too wide and the bass is quite good. I have just picked up two more (used) and intend a dual woofer design using the extra driver gain used to aid in baffle step correction. Right now it's all DSP but I could probably do something a bit more clever if I has more output below 600-800Hz.
It's not used in a huge room, a bit long but not too wide and the bass is quite good. I have just picked up two more (used) and intend a dual woofer design using the extra driver gain used to aid in baffle step correction. Right now it's all DSP but I could probably do something a bit more clever if I has more output below 600-800Hz.
