We have been going back and forth on it, and I think we have solidified behind doing a new board for the new chip. We are probably not going to make any more with the ES9008. We only have so much time to put into it, and would rather go with the new chip and not support both.
cool , so no feb batch of buffalo's? , so it looks like I will wait until the new boards with the 9018 come out no biggie... you guys are doing great things! (well my wife isnt to happy with you guys though 😉 )
Consideration of OP-Amp for I/V stage slew rate and settling time.
This consideration was written by BBJ ( I supporse Mr.Kawai ).
http://focus.tij.co.jp/jp/lit/an/jaja006/jaja006.pdf#search='I/V‹AŠÒ’ï�R PCM1702'
And I added several OP-Amps.
This is my hobby of the lunch time breaks.
This consideration was written by BBJ ( I supporse Mr.Kawai ).
http://focus.tij.co.jp/jp/lit/an/jaja006/jaja006.pdf#search='I/V‹AŠÒ’ï�R PCM1702'
And I added several OP-Amps.
This is my hobby of the lunch time breaks.
Attachments
Re: ES9018 Sabre 32
ismosys.com say that they have the eval kits in stock and expect the chips in the
next week or so
kevino said:
ismosys.com say that they have the eval kits in stock and expect the chips in the
next week or so
I can see the eva board uses the AD797 quite close to the recommended AD797 IV stage as well as the buffer.
I wonder how u find the difference between AD797 and OPA627. Is it better ?
I wonder how u find the difference between AD797 and OPA627. Is it better ?
ES9018 Listening Demo
I recently got a demo of the ES9018 (Sabre-32) at ESS HQ in Fremont, CA. Bob Blair was very generous in giving up about 3.5 hours of his evening to host the demo.
What can I say, yes the 9018 IS better than the 9008. No question. But whereas the 9008 was a jump in sound quality over other DACs, the 9018 more of a polish or refinement over the 9018. I won't go into the new features that it has over the 9008, you've all read about that. The features do make it a cool chip.
Through my middle-aged ears, I found the 9018 has a smoother sound. Everything is as clear, or more so, than the 9008, but there seemed to be, uh, less edginess--I suppose you could say. Or it's doesn't sound as transistory. It has all the detail but with more polish, smoother sounding. It sounds like you are hearing more harmonics. Female vocals were crisp, not shrill, and a pleasure to listen to. The music was warmer, compared to the 9008. Going back and forth you might say the 9018 took the high-frequency bite out of the 9008. Low freqency bass parts were clear and never covered-over by other instruments--but the 9008 does this very well also.
I know that's all quite subjective. Describing the sound is like describing the taste of a fine bootle of vintage wine.
The thing about the Sabre chips is when something is recorded well, the chips will make the music really awesome. But poor recordings or ones with lots of DSP processing stick out like a sore thumb. At home I put my CD player through the Buffalo and my normal analog preamp. I can switch between two XLR stereo inputs on my power amp. It's like you need the lower quality system to cover over the problems of the bad recordings.
RossG
I recently got a demo of the ES9018 (Sabre-32) at ESS HQ in Fremont, CA. Bob Blair was very generous in giving up about 3.5 hours of his evening to host the demo.
What can I say, yes the 9018 IS better than the 9008. No question. But whereas the 9008 was a jump in sound quality over other DACs, the 9018 more of a polish or refinement over the 9018. I won't go into the new features that it has over the 9008, you've all read about that. The features do make it a cool chip.
Through my middle-aged ears, I found the 9018 has a smoother sound. Everything is as clear, or more so, than the 9008, but there seemed to be, uh, less edginess--I suppose you could say. Or it's doesn't sound as transistory. It has all the detail but with more polish, smoother sounding. It sounds like you are hearing more harmonics. Female vocals were crisp, not shrill, and a pleasure to listen to. The music was warmer, compared to the 9008. Going back and forth you might say the 9018 took the high-frequency bite out of the 9008. Low freqency bass parts were clear and never covered-over by other instruments--but the 9008 does this very well also.
I know that's all quite subjective. Describing the sound is like describing the taste of a fine bootle of vintage wine.
The thing about the Sabre chips is when something is recorded well, the chips will make the music really awesome. But poor recordings or ones with lots of DSP processing stick out like a sore thumb. At home I put my CD player through the Buffalo and my normal analog preamp. I can switch between two XLR stereo inputs on my power amp. It's like you need the lower quality system to cover over the problems of the bad recordings.
RossG
AD797 or AD825 or OPA627
Sound focus
No1. ES9008S+AD825
No2.ES9008S+OPA627
No3.ES9008S+AD797
No4.YM3623B+SM5803+PCM1704+OPA627+BUF634
Sound clarity
No1.ES9008S+OPA627
No2.ES9008S+AD825
No3.YM3623B+SM5803+PCM1704+OPA627+BUF634
No4.ES9008S+AD797
Dynamics
No1. YM3623B+SM5803+PCM1704+OPA627+BUF634
No2. ES9008S+AD825
No3.ES9008S+OPA627
No4.ES9008S+AD797
Sound focus
No1. ES9008S+AD825
No2.ES9008S+OPA627
No3.ES9008S+AD797
No4.YM3623B+SM5803+PCM1704+OPA627+BUF634
Sound clarity
No1.ES9008S+OPA627
No2.ES9008S+AD825
No3.YM3623B+SM5803+PCM1704+OPA627+BUF634
No4.ES9008S+AD797
Dynamics
No1. YM3623B+SM5803+PCM1704+OPA627+BUF634
No2. ES9008S+AD825
No3.ES9008S+OPA627
No4.ES9008S+AD797
Dynamics
No1. YM3623B+SM5803+PCM1704+OPA627+BUF634
|
No1. YM3623B+SM5843+PCM1704+OPA627+BUF634
http://www.teddigital.com/COPS1708z201.htm
No1. YM3623B+SM5803+PCM1704+OPA627+BUF634
|
No1. YM3623B+SM5843+PCM1704+OPA627+BUF634
http://www.teddigital.com/COPS1708z201.htm
Better opamps to do a proper evaluation
nagae-san,
You need to try the new National LME series of opamps. The CFB LME49713HA or VFB LME49710HA (HA=metal cans). They are much better than the ADI parts.
audioman54 / Mark
nagae-san,
You need to try the new National LME series of opamps. The CFB LME49713HA or VFB LME49710HA (HA=metal cans). They are much better than the ADI parts.
audioman54 / Mark
Re: ES9018 Listening Demo
euh .... NO
i don't see why one would settle for a lesser reproduction, in any case
if you want to distort the sound after it has been decoded to analogue, there are plenty of hardware of possibilities ...but then u have control of it
if u start with a weak link, u cannot hot/swap it for the higher one when changing programs ...
krgaunt said:
euh .... NO
i don't see why one would settle for a lesser reproduction, in any case
if you want to distort the sound after it has been decoded to analogue, there are plenty of hardware of possibilities ...but then u have control of it
if u start with a weak link, u cannot hot/swap it for the higher one when changing programs ...
it'd be great to read about more comparisons about Sabre vs. r2r (oversampled preferably ...)
looks like MSBTECH went on to strike preemptively against ESS , 32bit 384khz ADC, diamond dac (LOL) ...
looks like MSBTECH went on to strike preemptively against ESS , 32bit 384khz ADC, diamond dac (LOL) ...
Brian / Russ
i bought the ES9008 Buffalo module but have been waiting for the Placid and Counterpoint so have not done anything with it. Now comes your announcement that you are switching to the ES9018. I want to understand where this leaves me as want my DAC to be as good as it can be (and I can't keep waiting for John Westlake's SOTA DAC to make an appearance).
So please tell me guys, is the 9018 a significant step up in sound quality from the 9008 and if so what are my options??
Thanks
Ian
i bought the ES9008 Buffalo module but have been waiting for the Placid and Counterpoint so have not done anything with it. Now comes your announcement that you are switching to the ES9018. I want to understand where this leaves me as want my DAC to be as good as it can be (and I can't keep waiting for John Westlake's SOTA DAC to make an appearance).
So please tell me guys, is the 9018 a significant step up in sound quality from the 9008 and if so what are my options??
Thanks
Ian
IMO you don't have to switch to ES9018 as long as your ok with your Buffalo.
I don't have any ES9018, but there isn't really a gap in quality between the two. 9018 just offers a lot mot functions. You probably don't have any 32 bits sources neither.
If you want input mux etc... yes, you'd be better with a 9018.
My 2 cents.
I don't have any ES9018, but there isn't really a gap in quality between the two. 9018 just offers a lot mot functions. You probably don't have any 32 bits sources neither.
If you want input mux etc... yes, you'd be better with a 9018.
My 2 cents.
You are right, no 32 bit sources. If it is just additional functionality then I'm happy.
Brian/Russ can you confirm?
Brian/Russ can you confirm?
Hi Ian,
I would not worry. If you don't plan on using the advanced features of the ES9018 you will not miss them. The ES9008 sounds superb already. I don't have the new Buffalo32 board done quite yet so I have not tested the ES9018 in it.
That said, I personally honestly do not expect a quantum leap change in performance. 🙂
Use the buffalo and I am confident you will be quite happy with it. Later you can always sell it and move on if you like. You won't have any problem selling it if its in good condition. But I suspect you will want to hang on to it once you get used to it. 🙂
Cheers!
Russ
I would not worry. If you don't plan on using the advanced features of the ES9018 you will not miss them. The ES9008 sounds superb already. I don't have the new Buffalo32 board done quite yet so I have not tested the ES9018 in it.
That said, I personally honestly do not expect a quantum leap change in performance. 🙂
Use the buffalo and I am confident you will be quite happy with it. Later you can always sell it and move on if you like. You won't have any problem selling it if its in good condition. But I suspect you will want to hang on to it once you get used to it. 🙂
Cheers!
Russ
Es9018
Hello Russ,
I have one question for you: can I bypass the internal upsampler in ES9018 DAC and use an external one (like PCM1792/4 and AD1955 ICs)?
Cheers!
Hello Russ,
I have one question for you: can I bypass the internal upsampler in ES9018 DAC and use an external one (like PCM1792/4 and AD1955 ICs)?
Cheers!
Re: Es9018
According to the data sheet it is possible to run the chip in 8fs mode, similar to what you can do with the Wolfson chips.
You would need custom firmware for that, and you would need to pick the system clock to fit your source sample rate.
I have never tried it, and probably never will. 🙂
Cheers!
Russ
excelon said:
According to the data sheet it is possible to run the chip in 8fs mode, similar to what you can do with the Wolfson chips.
You would need custom firmware for that, and you would need to pick the system clock to fit your source sample rate.
I have never tried it, and probably never will. 🙂
Cheers!
Russ
Re: Es9018
Hi Excelon,
Yes you can bypass the internal upsampler if you like. You can put data in at 8X. X can be up to 192k. So that means its possible to put data into the chip at 1.536MS/s. Now that would require a 98.304MHz bit clock (64*8*192k), but the chip will do it if your not worried about running those kinds of clocks and data on an audio board.
Dustin
excelon said:
Hi Excelon,
Yes you can bypass the internal upsampler if you like. You can put data in at 8X. X can be up to 192k. So that means its possible to put data into the chip at 1.536MS/s. Now that would require a 98.304MHz bit clock (64*8*192k), but the chip will do it if your not worried about running those kinds of clocks and data on an audio board.
Dustin