A new "counterpoint" topic would be useful, cause i see this is going to provocate a lots of tought, if its zero feedback? So far I bought myself AD844 and Jensen line drivers to balance, maybe im wrong?
ES9018 32bit interfacing DAC
Wow! This is so nice. The Counterpoint DAC is able to set ESS's new ES9018 IC chip!.
May I ask a question.
My hobby is High-end Audio also PC Audio.
When I ripped from CD, this wave file is recorded 16bit data on HDD. And when I live recording with my 24bit A/D Converter unit,
this wave file is recorded 24bit.
http://www.teddigital.com/serv01b.htm
I edit these 16bit or 24bit music data with my editting software, I always record 32bit wave faile data with no dither on HDD.
My dream is, that I would like hearing this 32bit wave file direct by some kind of transmitting methods to ES9018, with no turncation or dithering lower 8bit.
ES9018 has 32bit/192kHz interface/DAC , but 32bit is avilable when input data from I2S.
When data input from on board S/PDIF receiver is 24bit.
When I hear 32bit file on my HDD, under 8bit is turncated or dithering, the 32bit wave files are turncated 24bit wavefile.
Please teach me if you have the idea, how I can recieve 32bit wave file on HDD to ES9018 DAC unit.
Wow! This is so nice. The Counterpoint DAC is able to set ESS's new ES9018 IC chip!.
May I ask a question.
My hobby is High-end Audio also PC Audio.
When I ripped from CD, this wave file is recorded 16bit data on HDD. And when I live recording with my 24bit A/D Converter unit,
this wave file is recorded 24bit.
http://www.teddigital.com/serv01b.htm
I edit these 16bit or 24bit music data with my editting software, I always record 32bit wave faile data with no dither on HDD.
My dream is, that I would like hearing this 32bit wave file direct by some kind of transmitting methods to ES9018, with no turncation or dithering lower 8bit.
ES9018 has 32bit/192kHz interface/DAC , but 32bit is avilable when input data from I2S.
When data input from on board S/PDIF receiver is 24bit.
When I hear 32bit file on my HDD, under 8bit is turncated or dithering, the 32bit wave files are turncated 24bit wavefile.
Please teach me if you have the idea, how I can recieve 32bit wave file on HDD to ES9018 DAC unit.
So far, I think there is only one chip that could do 32 bits. I don't remember the ref, and it's not easily available. But I think things will change.
Dice may be do 32 bits with some tweaking too, as they told me their chip could also do DSD, so I assume it can support a lot of tweaking. In each case, you would have to programe quite a lot yourself...
And dice is so damn expensive. I'll have to go with the full SDK, 2000$... damn.
You could also tweak SPDIF to transmit 32 bits. There are two 20 bits registers in the AES specification, one for each channel. Find a way to use both channel to transmit the same word, and you're in.
With a fast sound card, a spdif receiver chip, and a fair amount of logic burned into a CPLD, you should be able to recreate i2s trames from this.
You''d better wait for ready made solutions! (hey, isn't it why you buy chips? you'de buying CPLDs otherwise!).
Nicolas
Dice may be do 32 bits with some tweaking too, as they told me their chip could also do DSD, so I assume it can support a lot of tweaking. In each case, you would have to programe quite a lot yourself...
And dice is so damn expensive. I'll have to go with the full SDK, 2000$... damn.
You could also tweak SPDIF to transmit 32 bits. There are two 20 bits registers in the AES specification, one for each channel. Find a way to use both channel to transmit the same word, and you're in.
With a fast sound card, a spdif receiver chip, and a fair amount of logic burned into a CPLD, you should be able to recreate i2s trames from this.
You''d better wait for ready made solutions! (hey, isn't it why you buy chips? you'de buying CPLDs otherwise!).
Nicolas
32bit "interfacing" DAC-IC, not resolution
I like ESS's super high performance "Non PLL S/PDIF circuit", "Jitter reduction circuit" and "HyperStream modulator" but I do not like conventional PLL S/PDIF circuit with no word-sync and conventional Delta-Sigma.
>So far, I think there is only one chip that could do 32 bits.
Already Asahi-Kasei released AK4399 with "32bit interfacing" DAC-IC.
DENON people choice this IC for DCD-SX SACD/CD player.
http://www.asahi-kasei.co.jp/akm/japanese/product/ak4399/ak4399_f00j.pdf#search='AK4399 datasheet'
2years ago, Asahi-Kasei released AK4397 "onbord 32bit output over sampling digital filter".
TEAC/Esoteric people choice this IC for D-05 D/A converter unit.
http://www.asahi-kasei.co.jp/akm/en/product/ak4397/ak4397_f01e.pdf#search='AK439‚V datasheet'
I like ESS's super high performance "Non PLL S/PDIF circuit", "Jitter reduction circuit" and "HyperStream modulator" but I do not like conventional PLL S/PDIF circuit with no word-sync and conventional Delta-Sigma.
>So far, I think there is only one chip that could do 32 bits.
Already Asahi-Kasei released AK4399 with "32bit interfacing" DAC-IC.
DENON people choice this IC for DCD-SX SACD/CD player.
http://www.asahi-kasei.co.jp/akm/japanese/product/ak4399/ak4399_f00j.pdf#search='AK4399 datasheet'
2years ago, Asahi-Kasei released AK4397 "onbord 32bit output over sampling digital filter".
TEAC/Esoteric people choice this IC for D-05 D/A converter unit.
http://www.asahi-kasei.co.jp/akm/en/product/ak4397/ak4397_f01e.pdf#search='AK439‚V datasheet'
Re: Re: Counter point DAC
Russ can you test it for ambient temps from say 0c to +40c to make sure the dc offset remains at or near 0mV offset, as this is the other ones (your oppositions) problem.
Cheers George
Russ White said:
Russ can you test it for ambient temps from say 0c to +40c to make sure the dc offset remains at or near 0mV offset, as this is the other ones (your oppositions) problem.
Cheers George
Hope this is okay...
The Night Before The Consumer Electronics Show
By Ross Gaunt
Apologies to Clement Moore
'Twas the night before CES, when all through the forum,
Not an audioist was stirring, not even Neb001.
The VREF mod was ordered with care,
In hopes that it'll be a minor repair.
The DIY'ers were nestled, all snug at their workbench.
While visions of more stable regulation danced in their head.
And the wife with her CDs, and me with my Buffalo,
Had just settled down to audition the Sympatico.
When out on the web-site there arose such a chatter;
I sprang to the computer to see what was the matter.
On to the forum I flew in a flash;
Perhaps a new board to eat up my cash.
News of a chip to be intro'ed at the show,
Gave much to speculation by people not in the know.
When what to my wondering screen should appear,
But a Sabre-32 to make music more perfectly clear.
With a DPLL so lively and quick,
I knew in a moment, a gem by Saint Dustin.
Quite parsed Russ' info it came;
Wait until Friday, I have to play the NDA game.
So be patient WoodTurner-Fran and Joshua_G,
Just a few days Chris74 and JinMTVT.
So wait we did, it drove some up the wall,
But Friday came, it wasn't long after all.
Up to the DIY bookmark my arrow it flew,
Hoping for details from Russ and St. Dustin too.
The S-32 specs said more jitter rejection,
I guess you can improve on perfection.
This time Saint Dustin wasn't fooling around;
But I shuttered to think of another web buying round.
There's 32-bit DACs numbered one to eight,
And auto de-emphasis filters, this stuff is great.
The DPLL bandwidth improved over the previous DAC,
And features to put this one ahead of the pack.
The programmable filters, how merry;
But writing the software's gonna be hairy.
There must be a proto-board somewhere, you know;
Of course ESS is demo'ing it at the CES show.
Auto input select and locking faster then my dog Nelly,
And the SPDIF software control, turned my brain into jelly.
But what's a FIR filter, I asked myself,
And why not IIR Bi-Quads, cried another elf.
But in a reply post, Russ he just said:
It's pin compatible, there's nothing to dread.
He spoke of a new board, he's already at work.
And now with 8-channels, my neighbors will go berserk.
So add to my cart, in a few months I suppose,
But we're buying a new dishwasher, said my sweet little Rose.
I'll fix our old one. I know I can, I think'le,
But soldering SMD's, now that will stink'le.
And I heard my wife say as I logged off the site:
Happy New Year to all, now can I get some sleep?
The Night Before The Consumer Electronics Show
By Ross Gaunt
Apologies to Clement Moore
'Twas the night before CES, when all through the forum,
Not an audioist was stirring, not even Neb001.
The VREF mod was ordered with care,
In hopes that it'll be a minor repair.
The DIY'ers were nestled, all snug at their workbench.
While visions of more stable regulation danced in their head.
And the wife with her CDs, and me with my Buffalo,
Had just settled down to audition the Sympatico.
When out on the web-site there arose such a chatter;
I sprang to the computer to see what was the matter.
On to the forum I flew in a flash;
Perhaps a new board to eat up my cash.
News of a chip to be intro'ed at the show,
Gave much to speculation by people not in the know.
When what to my wondering screen should appear,
But a Sabre-32 to make music more perfectly clear.
With a DPLL so lively and quick,
I knew in a moment, a gem by Saint Dustin.
Quite parsed Russ' info it came;
Wait until Friday, I have to play the NDA game.
So be patient WoodTurner-Fran and Joshua_G,
Just a few days Chris74 and JinMTVT.
So wait we did, it drove some up the wall,
But Friday came, it wasn't long after all.
Up to the DIY bookmark my arrow it flew,
Hoping for details from Russ and St. Dustin too.
The S-32 specs said more jitter rejection,
I guess you can improve on perfection.
This time Saint Dustin wasn't fooling around;
But I shuttered to think of another web buying round.
There's 32-bit DACs numbered one to eight,
And auto de-emphasis filters, this stuff is great.
The DPLL bandwidth improved over the previous DAC,
And features to put this one ahead of the pack.
The programmable filters, how merry;
But writing the software's gonna be hairy.
There must be a proto-board somewhere, you know;
Of course ESS is demo'ing it at the CES show.
Auto input select and locking faster then my dog Nelly,
And the SPDIF software control, turned my brain into jelly.
But what's a FIR filter, I asked myself,
And why not IIR Bi-Quads, cried another elf.
But in a reply post, Russ he just said:
It's pin compatible, there's nothing to dread.
He spoke of a new board, he's already at work.
And now with 8-channels, my neighbors will go berserk.
So add to my cart, in a few months I suppose,
But we're buying a new dishwasher, said my sweet little Rose.
I'll fix our old one. I know I can, I think'le,
But soldering SMD's, now that will stink'le.
And I heard my wife say as I logged off the site:
Happy New Year to all, now can I get some sleep?
Re: Re: Re: Counter point DAC
Hi George.
A very good post. And something I have been hard at work on since the first prototype.
Offset is nulled by the integrator. 🙂 So it should always stay the same (within reason).
I actually know this part works as I tried simply adding the integrator to the first prototype and it worked beautifully. I had < 1mv offset no matter the ambient temp and no caps on the output. 🙂
It's a pretty cool cct (well of course I think its cool) in that there are basically four integrators. One that sets the common mode output voltage (to gnd), one that nulls the differential output offset, and two that set input bias at each input. So the input and the output have their own bias voltage. 🙂 Say 1.65V and 0V. 🙂
The cct can be operated with a little current feedback, or zero global feeback. All of the voltage references are well filtered.
Cheers!
Russ
georgehifi said:
Hi George.
A very good post. And something I have been hard at work on since the first prototype.
Offset is nulled by the integrator. 🙂 So it should always stay the same (within reason).
I actually know this part works as I tried simply adding the integrator to the first prototype and it worked beautifully. I had < 1mv offset no matter the ambient temp and no caps on the output. 🙂
It's a pretty cool cct (well of course I think its cool) in that there are basically four integrators. One that sets the common mode output voltage (to gnd), one that nulls the differential output offset, and two that set input bias at each input. So the input and the output have their own bias voltage. 🙂 Say 1.65V and 0V. 🙂
The cct can be operated with a little current feedback, or zero global feeback. All of the voltage references are well filtered.
Cheers!
Russ
Re: Hope this is okay...
Ouch. 🙂
LOL, that was pretty cool. Thanks Ross!
Cheers!
Russ
krgaunt said:
Ouch. 🙂
LOL, that was pretty cool. Thanks Ross!
Cheers!
Russ
Re: Hope this is okay...
I'm no DSP guru, but my understanding is that FIRs are true linear phase, whereas IIRs are more akin to analog filters.
krgaunt said:
I'm no DSP guru, but my understanding is that FIRs are true linear phase, whereas IIRs are more akin to analog filters.
there are "phase warped" "minimum phase" FIR filters that ring after the transient like an analog filter... IIR requires oversamplng big time.
Re: Re: Hope this is okay...
Uh, sorry, but don't take me seriously. I just just trying to make a rhyme. Hope it wasn't too far off topic, or that the people who's names I used are not offended.
Now back to our regularly scheduled topics.
RossG
Spartacus said:
Uh, sorry, but don't take me seriously. I just just trying to make a rhyme. Hope it wasn't too far off topic, or that the people who's names I used are not offended.
Now back to our regularly scheduled topics.
RossG
Power Supply
Quick question here..
Can I use an 80VA, dual 21V secondaries transformer for the new Sabre32 board and the new counterpoint I/V?
Realized I had one lying around..
Quick question here..
Can I use an 80VA, dual 21V secondaries transformer for the new Sabre32 board and the new counterpoint I/V?
Realized I had one lying around..
McIntosh MCD 500 with ESS Sabre DAC
In its February issue, the german Audio magazine Stereoplay presents a review of the new McIntosh MCD 500 player, which is probably the first commercially available player with the ESS 9008 Sabre chip. It plays almost everything, CD, SACD, WMA, MP3. Digital inputs allow external sources to utilize the quality of the Sabre chip. The price of the player is said to be 8000 Euro.
The review sais that McIntosh uses an OPA2134 after the DAC, followed by some NE5532 as line output drivers for both balanced and unbalanced outputs. Interesting, that they measured 612 ps of jitter. I don't know how they really measure jitter, but they seem do this on all players they test, so figures are probably comparable among different players. However, irrespective of this, they judged the sound as excellent, with stunning resolution and clarity, about comparable in quality to the (also top rated) Ayre C5 XE. They recommend to use the balanced output, as they found the sonics to be superior over the unbalanced RCA.
In its February issue, the german Audio magazine Stereoplay presents a review of the new McIntosh MCD 500 player, which is probably the first commercially available player with the ESS 9008 Sabre chip. It plays almost everything, CD, SACD, WMA, MP3. Digital inputs allow external sources to utilize the quality of the Sabre chip. The price of the player is said to be 8000 Euro.
The review sais that McIntosh uses an OPA2134 after the DAC, followed by some NE5532 as line output drivers for both balanced and unbalanced outputs. Interesting, that they measured 612 ps of jitter. I don't know how they really measure jitter, but they seem do this on all players they test, so figures are probably comparable among different players. However, irrespective of this, they judged the sound as excellent, with stunning resolution and clarity, about comparable in quality to the (also top rated) Ayre C5 XE. They recommend to use the balanced output, as they found the sonics to be superior over the unbalanced RCA.
interesting .. that 5532 balacing stage might be very common in recording though anyway. But that jitter figure, pleaazeeeee 😀😀
Why McIntosh use CS8416?
McIntosh MCD500 has 192kHz24bit digital input RCA terminal.
I checked this Digital Interface Reciever IC, it was CS8416.
I wonder why McIntosh uses CS8416 conventional PLL DIR-IC, because ES9008S has very nice non PLL / Time stump based DIR circuit.
Do you know who it is?
McIntosh MCD500 has 192kHz24bit digital input RCA terminal.
I checked this Digital Interface Reciever IC, it was CS8416.
I wonder why McIntosh uses CS8416 conventional PLL DIR-IC, because ES9008S has very nice non PLL / Time stump based DIR circuit.
Do you know who it is?
