The melting point of nylon 6.6 = 265 C, and used it in my cover
Here is the link: Polyamide nylon PA yarns, fibers, flock and monofilaments
The improvement nylon coating
This improvement nylon coating. After melting nylon acquires all the physical and electrical properties (nylon restored after dissolution, the dissolved form), the coating becomes thinner and easier to reliably kept adheres to the Mylar (PET film), improves the electrical resistance for high breakdown voltage.
Apparently, the one who DARED to try has succeeded!
Hazy looking coating becomes transparent - you can observe this by "disappearence" of the coating right under the fan nozzle...
Alex
My attempts to do so yeilded fried PET - it is not that simple. It would be fare to say that that coating on fried PET was almost invisible...
Hi,
I don´t understand too what the vid is about. Tempering a diaphragm is common sonse in ESL building. That tempering improves certain parameters is nothing new. So where´s the beef?
Nylon keeps a certain percentage of water. And that is the basic mechanism behind its rather high conductivity compared to other plastics and it probabely accounts for the whitish apperance too. Conductivity is at the low end of what is desirable anyway. Decreasing it even further is rather contraproductive.
Heating reduces the part of water and as such optics could change to transparency and obviously conductivity must decrease, ie. the resistance increases.
I see no reason why the heating should improve the adherence to the PET-membrane and it certainly doesn´t improve uniformity of the conductivity over the membrane area. And last I doubt that this process will stay for infinite. Over time the nylon will attract water till it reaches its natural balance again. Thereby resistance will decrease and optics might change too.
jauu
Calvin
I don´t understand too what the vid is about. Tempering a diaphragm is common sonse in ESL building. That tempering improves certain parameters is nothing new. So where´s the beef?
Nylon keeps a certain percentage of water. And that is the basic mechanism behind its rather high conductivity compared to other plastics and it probabely accounts for the whitish apperance too. Conductivity is at the low end of what is desirable anyway. Decreasing it even further is rather contraproductive.
Heating reduces the part of water and as such optics could change to transparency and obviously conductivity must decrease, ie. the resistance increases.
I see no reason why the heating should improve the adherence to the PET-membrane and it certainly doesn´t improve uniformity of the conductivity over the membrane area. And last I doubt that this process will stay for infinite. Over time the nylon will attract water till it reaches its natural balance again. Thereby resistance will decrease and optics might change too.
jauu
Calvin
of perhaps some interest - those floor finishes and all... US5091452
also it appears that the VERMASON|C901|FLOOR POLISH, DISSIPATIVE | Farnell United Kingdom is not being carried at least by Farnell...
But you can read the MSDS and see what the components are/were.
also it appears that the VERMASON|C901|FLOOR POLISH, DISSIPATIVE | Farnell United Kingdom is not being carried at least by Farnell...
But you can read the MSDS and see what the components are/were.
i too fail to understand what is being shown in the utoobe video - where's the nylon?
What is the wire doing?? Is it measuring the resitivity under the heat gun? Why?
Let's get some real information here Statics Man? What exactly is the material, what exactly is the process, how is the "nylon" applied, and in what form!!
_-_-
What is the wire doing?? Is it measuring the resitivity under the heat gun? Why?
Let's get some real information here Statics Man? What exactly is the material, what exactly is the process, how is the "nylon" applied, and in what form!!
_-_-
Nylon cover
This is getting a clean nylon (nylon 6.6) cover the diaphragm directly to the membrane of ESL. Nylon cover is protected by a conductive layer on the membrane from the external atmospheric effects and destruction.
Translating: This is getting the membrane covered by a layer of clean
nylon (nylon 6.6). The nylon cover protects the conductive layer on the membrane from external atmospheric effects and destruction.
Jees...
translation is not that easy, huh?
Valery, was that you?
If so, it is a derivative of phenol-alcohol nylon coating technology cited by Mark Rehorst.
Conductive layer is the graphite one - not so easy to apply and not so easy to adjust (resistivity wise).
Nevertheless the process is rather straightforward and simple.
After the requred conductivity is achieved we need to put protective coating over the graphite.
The usual problem is the proper adhesion of nylon coating to the graphite coated mylar film (membrane).
What can one observe on this particular video?
I assume that the film is already coated with graphite, nylon and glued to the frame.
The presence of the nylon (answering the question Where is the NYLON?) is seen as cloudy(milky, hazy) substance on the film, barely visible.
The wire is the thermocouple - readings are on the handheld meter.
The author claims that nylon overcoat melts thus creating strong bond to the PET(membrane).
Melted nylon is less visible - you can see how hazy looking film becomes transparent right under the nozzle.
Sincerely,
Alex
Alex
Many thanks for the help, and the detailed description of my method of a covering of a diaphragm (membrane)
I don't recall which mfr uses "nylon" coating. My understanding based upon trying to find the liquid "stuff" is that the one mfr of it, stopped making it available. That leaves making it urself, and I be no chemist, so that's out.
I'm not sure what the benefit of is of putting a layer over the graphite... and why not put the graphite in suspension with the nylon in the first place??
So, we do not get to see the process of coating the diaphragm with the nylon solution... only heating it carefully... making it change from cloudy to clear (containing atmospheric water, to not containing atmospheric water??)
And, how do we know that the coating of nylon is uniform??
Inquiring minds want to know...
_-_-
I'm not sure what the benefit of is of putting a layer over the graphite... and why not put the graphite in suspension with the nylon in the first place??
So, we do not get to see the process of coating the diaphragm with the nylon solution... only heating it carefully... making it change from cloudy to clear (containing atmospheric water, to not containing atmospheric water??)
And, how do we know that the coating of nylon is uniform??
Inquiring minds want to know...
_-_-
Hi,
if You want to ´protect´ the conductive carbon layer why don´t You use a material that behaves rather like an insulator instead of a material that behaves conductive itself? This could be a Acrylic or PU-solution or something hydrophic like a Silicone. If You use the Elvamide You don´t need the carbon layer as Quads have prooved impressively.
If You want to raise conductivity why not dope the Elvamide solution with a water based carbon black? This would at least spare one working step that stresses the membrane considerably, because the doping agent could be added whith the dissolving process (and water is a plastizizer for Elvamide too). Elvamide keeps a water rest which is app 3% under normal atmospheric conditions and this is what defines its conductivity.
On the other hand this means that conductivity is humidity dependant and that a moist grease film an build up over time which eventually leads to leakage and malfunction. A ´real´ protective layer should preferably be made from a hydrophobic material not a hydrophile one.
Elvamide has indeed a low melting point of ~154°C which is just slightly above the 149°C where PET shrinks and far below enough the melting point which is around 250-260°C.
When dissolving under heating and stirring solvent swallen Elvamide resin particles are colorless and transparent. When cooled down gelation starts and the solution becomes cloudy. Applying heat restores gelled solutions, hence it becomes transparent again. The qestion is, will the coating stay transparent after the heat treatment when the alcohol has evaporated, or will it gelate and become whitish again?
jauu
Calvin
if You want to ´protect´ the conductive carbon layer why don´t You use a material that behaves rather like an insulator instead of a material that behaves conductive itself? This could be a Acrylic or PU-solution or something hydrophic like a Silicone. If You use the Elvamide You don´t need the carbon layer as Quads have prooved impressively.
If You want to raise conductivity why not dope the Elvamide solution with a water based carbon black? This would at least spare one working step that stresses the membrane considerably, because the doping agent could be added whith the dissolving process (and water is a plastizizer for Elvamide too). Elvamide keeps a water rest which is app 3% under normal atmospheric conditions and this is what defines its conductivity.
On the other hand this means that conductivity is humidity dependant and that a moist grease film an build up over time which eventually leads to leakage and malfunction. A ´real´ protective layer should preferably be made from a hydrophobic material not a hydrophile one.
Elvamide has indeed a low melting point of ~154°C which is just slightly above the 149°C where PET shrinks and far below enough the melting point which is around 250-260°C.
When dissolving under heating and stirring solvent swallen Elvamide resin particles are colorless and transparent. When cooled down gelation starts and the solution becomes cloudy. Applying heat restores gelled solutions, hence it becomes transparent again. The qestion is, will the coating stay transparent after the heat treatment when the alcohol has evaporated, or will it gelate and become whitish again?
jauu
Calvin
Calvin
The biggest defect of coverings used there, is change of resistance depending on humidity environment of air
Therefore I do not apply Elvamide.
I receive a stable covering using pure nylon 6.6 not changing the resistance from humidity of air
After thermal processing the covering remains very transparent (as a fishing string) . Fused in a Mylar (PET)inseparable and water resistant coating also gets all physical and electric properties of nylon 6.6.
Hi,
it doesn´t matter if You use pure PA or Elvamide..PA contains a water rest of ~3% under normal atmospheric conditions and shows certain hydrophile aspects. Dispensed in water its water rest can reach ~9.5%. The water rest is responsible for the comparably high conductivity (surface as well as volume resistivity) for a pure plastic material. Therefore the PA is humidity sensitive.
Pure Nylon has a higher melting point of 220°C compared to the 154°C of Elvamide. So You´re quite close to the melting point of the PET membrane.
jauu
Calvin
it doesn´t matter if You use pure PA or Elvamide..PA contains a water rest of ~3% under normal atmospheric conditions and shows certain hydrophile aspects. Dispensed in water its water rest can reach ~9.5%. The water rest is responsible for the comparably high conductivity (surface as well as volume resistivity) for a pure plastic material. Therefore the PA is humidity sensitive.
Pure Nylon has a higher melting point of 220°C compared to the 154°C of Elvamide. So You´re quite close to the melting point of the PET membrane.
jauu
Calvin
Calvin
Temperature of fusion nylon 6.6 = 255 ° C
Temperature of fusion PET = 250 ° C
Heat treatment layers of nylon 6.6 and PET are welded.
Elvamide coating is soluble in water, alcohol.
And easily absorb water, can not be applied to cover the membrane ESL.
It is like a liquid soap.
His resistance is easily changed from humidity.