A 1-dimensional comment. The Benchmark DAC-3 is not high end by any means, including $$. And besides ... the folks that pay that kinda dough have money in the bank. Not time or tenacity or interest in DIY or budget-level gear.
Some of that looks cleaner than several of my projects -- past or present.
Thanks for sharing ....
.... oh .... and I did add the recommended board to my eBay cart.
As opposed to your pointless one.
If by highend you mean lacking in the kind of practical and pragmatic design approach that typifies devices for those that have to use said devices for a living, then yes it probably isn't.
Give it time and you might find life is a little more nuanced than that.
rfbrw ... Postmates cyclin', pizza delivery .... late AGAIN!
For whatever reason, indivs. like rfbrw have no investment in this thread's project ... other than verbose self-amusement.
Just thought I'd authenticate my own efforts into some of the subjects of this thread with these snaps ... I also have much other stuff like the aforementioned q2b-based hifime DAC (dongle).
For whatever reason, indivs. like rfbrw have no investment in this thread's project ... other than verbose self-amusement.
Guv!!!
And yet I have seen no topically related content by you to this thread ... no queries, no images of related designs, nothing. AAMOF, I did a bit of digging and came up with zilch in any thread you've contributed .... other than armchair, one- or two sentence toss offs. Now that really ain't DIY, now is it guv?
I assume that comparison was meant as a diatribe ... and, frankly, I ... uh ... understand:
I take it both you and rfbrw are slightly sore after you were both ... ahem .... corrected in my TDA1305 thread.
Philips tda1305 (hybrid multi-bit/bitstream DAC with interpolation)
Very much in keeping with your earlier 'aliases' you assume wrongly. I appreciate correction otherwise how would I learn?
abraxalito
Okay, back to the q2m ... well, here is one of my 9038q2m hacks ... the hifime dongle, with a separate USB isolator board ... with some ferrite action ....
Start a separate, topical thread on that if you choose to vent. This thread is about the 9038q2m project. Is that clear, abraxalito?
Okay, back to the q2m ... well, here is one of my 9038q2m hacks ... the hifime dongle, with a separate USB isolator board ... with some ferrite action ....
But it was clearly you who introduced that topic into a thread which is ostensibly about developing a DAC based on ES9038q2m. And I cannot think why I might 'choose to vent'. Can you think of a reason?
In which case what pray was the relevance of introducing a pic featuring a TDA1387*8 module? Plus multibit boxed DACs too?
abraxalito, the non-sequitur
I own several other devices that I could also share images of, including a Denefrips Ares II (discrere r2r ladder dac), Fiio m11 pro (akm4497 DAP), etc., etc.
Meanwhile, indiv. like you and rfbrw have contributed NOTHING related to the 9038q2m. Rather, you use this thread to vent childish emotions, curious allegations and other off-topicals and non-sequitur. Alas this is a long thread and I may have missed one of your ON-TOPIC posts ... if so provide those links here:
________________
The other dacs were shown in the same photo as the 9038q2m-based Breeeze Audio device as: (a) proof of ownership of multiple dacs; (b) as proof of interest in multiple devices with myriad dac topologies (S-D, multibit, OS, NOS) to compare the 9038q2m with.
I own several other devices that I could also share images of, including a Denefrips Ares II (discrere r2r ladder dac), Fiio m11 pro (akm4497 DAP), etc., etc.
Meanwhile, indiv. like you and rfbrw have contributed NOTHING related to the 9038q2m. Rather, you use this thread to vent childish emotions, curious allegations and other off-topicals and non-sequitur. Alas this is a long thread and I may have missed one of your ON-TOPIC posts ... if so provide those links here:
________________
Where can i find the basics on the PCB linked at the top, and the "ES9038q2m project". Some basics which a $35 PCB from china raise - is this in fact an ESS9038 pro based board? And what is the nature of this "project"? basically to develop an open source implementation? Sorry, but not nearly clear from the beginning nor the ******* match at the end...
TIA
G
TIA
G
itsjustme,
The thread is mostly about modding a cheap Chinese DAC board to see if there was any easy way to make it sound a lot better. After all, ES9038Q2M has great specs, very close to ES9038PRO. In theory it should sound great, right?
Well, turned out there is more to the story. The cheap DAC board didn't have any simple weaknesses. Everything about it except the DAC chip is more or less equally weak. It takes a great deal of work to make one sound good. And, by now you can buy finished ES9038Q2M boards that already sound quite good. The Allo Katana DAC is a good one that mostly only needs better analog power supplies to perform quite well. However, its not $40 or so, but neither is the one in this thread by the time its fully modded.
Good news is that there are few mods that seem to make most of the difference people are looking for. They are the output stage mod, and the AVCC supply mod. Schematics for those are attached to post #3003. Of course, layout and component selection make a difference in final performance. There are posts and resources showing examples of how it might be done.
After the first two mods, other hardware mods include a clock upgrade and adding dedicated voltage regulators for DAC chip (VCCA, and DVCC), and for clock power.
A good hardware/software mod involves taking over control of the DAC chip configuration registers with an Arduino or other MCU. People report a good sound quality improvement from minimizing DPLL_Bandwidth as ESS suggests. Its just that most cheap DAC designs leave that setting at the default for simplicity.
The thread is mostly about modding a cheap Chinese DAC board to see if there was any easy way to make it sound a lot better. After all, ES9038Q2M has great specs, very close to ES9038PRO. In theory it should sound great, right?
Well, turned out there is more to the story. The cheap DAC board didn't have any simple weaknesses. Everything about it except the DAC chip is more or less equally weak. It takes a great deal of work to make one sound good. And, by now you can buy finished ES9038Q2M boards that already sound quite good. The Allo Katana DAC is a good one that mostly only needs better analog power supplies to perform quite well. However, its not $40 or so, but neither is the one in this thread by the time its fully modded.
Good news is that there are few mods that seem to make most of the difference people are looking for. They are the output stage mod, and the AVCC supply mod. Schematics for those are attached to post #3003. Of course, layout and component selection make a difference in final performance. There are posts and resources showing examples of how it might be done.
After the first two mods, other hardware mods include a clock upgrade and adding dedicated voltage regulators for DAC chip (VCCA, and DVCC), and for clock power.
A good hardware/software mod involves taking over control of the DAC chip configuration registers with an Arduino or other MCU. People report a good sound quality improvement from minimizing DPLL_Bandwidth as ESS suggests. Its just that most cheap DAC designs leave that setting at the default for simplicity.
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Thanks - what a great overview
Thanks Mark,
I hop this is an indication of how helpful this community is - i ask for pointers on an old thread, and get not just an explanation but a summary of the key findings....wow.
A few comments that may or may not be helpful to many:
1. No surprise that power supplies are a top priority - since amps are basically modulated power supplies, and since both DAC outputs and I/V stages are forms of amps, it follows.
2. Interestingly, i just purchased an Allow Revolution DAC with the Shanti power supply and the USBridge. Maybe I'll post more notes when i have the time, but it's rally impressive at the price point, and the Shanti exceeded my expectations - i basically bought it since i needed two supplies, and at 3A+, and decided the Shanti was little more costly than building my own. I will have my own to compare in the near future. So the Q2M *can* sound very good.
3. In general while everyone focuses on chips, IMO its the lest important step in the process. I can also get similar sound out of JFETs, BJTs, (some very good) chips and even tubes (again, with too much work...)
Picking up there - has the consensus been tat the Q2M is very very close to the PRO when all the supporting bits are up to snuff (including layout)????
I'm a fairly experienced analog guy (my side/hobby job of 30 years), and good with logic and SW architecture (my real job). I am NOT an experienced builder of digital logic from merchant chips. This is new for me and the ESS9038PRO is quite the learning curve.
I'm not a fan of "datasheet engineering" although at the same time a really careful read of datasheets, often between the lines, reveals a lot.
G
Thanks Mark,
I hop this is an indication of how helpful this community is - i ask for pointers on an old thread, and get not just an explanation but a summary of the key findings....wow.
A few comments that may or may not be helpful to many:
1. No surprise that power supplies are a top priority - since amps are basically modulated power supplies, and since both DAC outputs and I/V stages are forms of amps, it follows.
2. Interestingly, i just purchased an Allow Revolution DAC with the Shanti power supply and the USBridge. Maybe I'll post more notes when i have the time, but it's rally impressive at the price point, and the Shanti exceeded my expectations - i basically bought it since i needed two supplies, and at 3A+, and decided the Shanti was little more costly than building my own. I will have my own to compare in the near future. So the Q2M *can* sound very good.
3. In general while everyone focuses on chips, IMO its the lest important step in the process. I can also get similar sound out of JFETs, BJTs, (some very good) chips and even tubes (again, with too much work...)
Picking up there - has the consensus been tat the Q2M is very very close to the PRO when all the supporting bits are up to snuff (including layout)????
I'm a fairly experienced analog guy (my side/hobby job of 30 years), and good with logic and SW architecture (my real job). I am NOT an experienced builder of digital logic from merchant chips. This is new for me and the ESS9038PRO is quite the learning curve.
I'm not a fan of "datasheet engineering" although at the same time a really careful read of datasheets, often between the lines, reveals a lot.
G
Hi everyone,
634 pages already I haven't been following this thread so I miss out on so many important posts. I own an ES9038Q2M(with vol. control), what I like to know without browsing through so many pages if you can direct me to important pages that:
1. Recommend what are latest DIY board or boards(no vol. control) which give the best performance with minimal mods.
2. Discuss all the important mods.
Thanks for your help fellows.
634 pages already I haven't been following this thread so I miss out on so many important posts. I own an ES9038Q2M(with vol. control), what I like to know without browsing through so many pages if you can direct me to important pages that:
1. Recommend what are latest DIY board or boards(no vol. control) which give the best performance with minimal mods.
2. Discuss all the important mods.
Thanks for your help fellows.
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