hihopes,
Yes to all of your questions.
I started on multiway drivers, after the initial Ohm F's, back in 1974 and have treated more than 300 pairs of boxed, multi way systems, before coming here and getting adopted by the single driver crowd. I used to think I hated full range , single driver systems, but a set of Planet 10 Fonken / Fe127 eN systems are now my only sound source, by choice.... though some hybrid multiway devices are cooking.
Nevertheless, this isn't the thread you want to get involved in. This one is for friendly pushing and shoving, arm waving and occasional shouting.
The one in which we discuss applications and sneak around whispering technical gobbledygook, behind the moderators back, is this one.
EnABL - Listening impressions & techniques - diyAudio
We can teach you how to treat all of your drivers, using simple field proven methods for analysis, that do not rely upon fancy test equipment. We can then teach you how to successfully treat your particular drivers and get another 60 dB down in coherence, over and above the more usual 40 dB down. Please join us. But, have you considered a series crossover yet?
Aside
And yes Dave, I really do mean being able to hear, track and make sense out of a sound to that low a level, amongst all of the other tones going on, just like in real life. Just to answer that lingering query.
Scott,
I suspect that without the E Field these little particles would not be nearly so descriptive of the non planar transform going on.
Bud
Yes to all of your questions.
I started on multiway drivers, after the initial Ohm F's, back in 1974 and have treated more than 300 pairs of boxed, multi way systems, before coming here and getting adopted by the single driver crowd. I used to think I hated full range , single driver systems, but a set of Planet 10 Fonken / Fe127 eN systems are now my only sound source, by choice.... though some hybrid multiway devices are cooking.
Nevertheless, this isn't the thread you want to get involved in. This one is for friendly pushing and shoving, arm waving and occasional shouting.
The one in which we discuss applications and sneak around whispering technical gobbledygook, behind the moderators back, is this one.
EnABL - Listening impressions & techniques - diyAudio
We can teach you how to treat all of your drivers, using simple field proven methods for analysis, that do not rely upon fancy test equipment. We can then teach you how to successfully treat your particular drivers and get another 60 dB down in coherence, over and above the more usual 40 dB down. Please join us. But, have you considered a series crossover yet?
Aside
And yes Dave, I really do mean being able to hear, track and make sense out of a sound to that low a level, amongst all of the other tones going on, just like in real life. Just to answer that lingering query.
Scott,
I suspect that without the E Field these little particles would not be nearly so descriptive of the non planar transform going on.
Bud
Soviet EnABL?
Have a look at these late Soviet beauties.
2A12Y4,LOMO,KINAP,15",woofers,pair,NOS - eBay (item 360206396578 end time Mar-09-10 13:24:47 PST)
What's that pattern on the cone? Could it be? 😛
(thanks to TOMT for the link)
Have a look at these late Soviet beauties.
2A12Y4,LOMO,KINAP,15",woofers,pair,NOS - eBay (item 360206396578 end time Mar-09-10 13:24:47 PST)
What's that pattern on the cone? Could it be? 😛
(thanks to TOMT for the link)
Hey Dave, i can't seem to find any mention of this Russian version of EnABL on the forum. Maybe my search skills are bad.
Any idea where you saw it mentioned?
Any idea where you saw it mentioned?
Sometimes it is hard to find the right search word. I do remember seeing this same driver before. And it was a link from one or the other EnABL threads, probably the 1st one.
dave
Speaking of illustrations that should be permanently attached to this thread, did anyone manage to save the illustrations by john k in post #2762 in this thread?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/100399-enabl-processes-277.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/100399-enabl-processes-277.html
Konut,
Unless Dave gathered all of them up, he only has one posted on his site. It is the one that shows just the cone edge EnABL patterns. It is sad that John took them down, I though all of the tests he performed were very educational. He did OK our re posting the one we still have, here.
Enable Tests
Look carefully at the main ridge of resonance and notice what the treatment does for exposing the ringing within that node, as it decays. This is the first time I actually have ever had clear evidence of what EnABL really does. I will always be indebted to John K for providing this comparison.
Bud
Unless Dave gathered all of them up, he only has one posted on his site. It is the one that shows just the cone edge EnABL patterns. It is sad that John took them down, I though all of the tests he performed were very educational. He did OK our re posting the one we still have, here.
Enable Tests
Look carefully at the main ridge of resonance and notice what the treatment does for exposing the ringing within that node, as it decays. This is the first time I actually have ever had clear evidence of what EnABL really does. I will always be indebted to John K for providing this comparison.
Bud
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Thanks Dave, but those are not what I thought they were. Do you recall the circular diagram that showed the complete EnAble pattern with the diagonal lines showing the radians being interrupted(that terminology might not be entirely correct, I'm hoping you get what I mean by that limp description)?
Ok, last try. Do you have the images from post #2851?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/100399-enabl-processes-286.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/100399-enabl-processes-286.html
Is there a reversible way to 'test drive' enabl on an expensive 15" driver such as using materials with single side adhesives? I just ran across these enabl postings an hour ago and notice there is quite a lot so sorry if this has already been covered.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/116773-alternative-enabl-processes.html
If I were to do it again, I wouldn't bother with the foil.
I would use a low stick masking tape or similar - tacky enough to stay in place, but not so sticky that the cone would be damaged when you remove it.
Test first before applying all around the driver.
Is your driver being used as a dedicated subwoofer?
Cheers,
Alex
You can also use post it notes, artists masking paper and, maybe the best, the removable clear contact paper used to cover shelves in cabinets. The masking tape Alex is commenting on is a 3M product here in the US and is blue in color. The more fibrous / less calendered the actual cone the less sticky you want the temporary block material to be. I do think you will know your answer within about 10 minutes of actually playing music through them. The exact location of the patterns will be the real difficulty here as you are going to have to learn a method for discovering the resonance nodes on the cone surface. It is easy to do, but will take some time and acclimation before your consciously directed hearing allows you to pursue the testing.
When you have found a material you know will both stick and come off without tearing the surface up we can proceed to the pattern location point. Probably better to do this on the listening and teaching thread than here though. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/119676-enabl-listening-impressions-techniques.html
Bud
When you have found a material you know will both stick and come off without tearing the surface up we can proceed to the pattern location point. Probably better to do this on the listening and teaching thread than here though. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/119676-enabl-listening-impressions-techniques.html
Bud
It is the bass unit (JBL 2220A) crossed over at about 600hz in the 2-way system I am currently using that I call the Iron Lawbreaker. As an alnico magnet underhung driver with a fabric surround driven from a DC coupled all triode OTL, I was thinking that it might be an above average candidate for reflection damping. I was actually considering some sort of cone treatment for a while but really didn't want to do something that was potentilly irreversible until I had a good idea whether I thought it was the right thing to do. Also, being a very high efficiency system (99-100db), I was reluctant to add even a little mass that couldn't be removed until I knew I could get good results by doing so.
As a side note regarding tube amplifiers: I'm serious about building the 7189 amplifier by the way - I am ordering some parts right now. Btw, a little secret - I've bought 16 NOS 6DZ7's for reasonable prices that I plan for this amp instead of actual 7189s. If you check the data sheets, their characteristics are essentially identical and the internal construction appears to be the same. I didn't want to mention this before because of a fear of provoking a rush on the few 6DZ7's that might still be out there just in case.
OK. I'll take further discussion of this to that forum. Thanks for the suggestions.
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