All you have to do to understand my actions is to look at the title of the thread. I didn't think it was that hard.
Hi ! Enabl-o-manics 🙂
I'm very interesded to treat my Open baffle, light paper 12" woofers. I don't have tools for Enabl so I want to focus on pre/after Enabl treatment.
What I understand so far is that Puzzlecoat decreases self noise of cone and Micro Gloss is used to cover Enabl pattern. On the other hand Micro Gloss is supposed to do more than jus coat the pattern because is used to cover full cone, right ?
Some of you said that Micro gloss have a major impact on sound.
Can you describe me the differences and advise what and why to use on paper woofers (30hz-400hz) ? Right now I'm a bit lost 🙂
Maybe I should use both ?
Now the main problems is self noise mainle in 150-300hz range.
I'm very interesded to treat my Open baffle, light paper 12" woofers. I don't have tools for Enabl so I want to focus on pre/after Enabl treatment.
What I understand so far is that Puzzlecoat decreases self noise of cone and Micro Gloss is used to cover Enabl pattern. On the other hand Micro Gloss is supposed to do more than jus coat the pattern because is used to cover full cone, right ?
Some of you said that Micro gloss have a major impact on sound.
Can you describe me the differences and advise what and why to use on paper woofers (30hz-400hz) ? Right now I'm a bit lost 🙂
Maybe I should use both ?
Now the main problems is self noise mainle in 150-300hz range.
If you are not planning to utilize the EnABL process I would not recommend using the Micro Gloss coating. Using pure PVA (poly vinyl acrylic) is probably your best bet. Puzzle coat is a member of that family of products, but I do not have any experience with it. Parts Express sells a pure, flexible, PVA as a glue to attache foam surrounds to cones and baskets. This material can be applied over the entire surface of the cone, surround and dust cap to good effect. This will provide about 70% of the clarity that EnABL provides. Applying gloss over this would be a mistake and applying just gloss would provide less clarity than a PVA coating.
You can obtain a complete EnABL kit from Ed LaFontaine, all 5 pens, a couple of pen tip holders and a bottle of gloss and poly scale clear flat acrylic delivered for under $35, last time I heard a price.
Bud
You can obtain a complete EnABL kit from Ed LaFontaine, all 5 pens, a couple of pen tip holders and a bottle of gloss and poly scale clear flat acrylic delivered for under $35, last time I heard a price.
Bud
Hello Mr Purvine,
I just wanted to let you know I will be trying your suggested patterns (or as many as I dare try) on my Beta 8as. I've made some 3-way open baffles and now that I've settled on a basic crossover it's time to turn up the clarity... 🙂
I will be re-looking at your work on your friends set and copying shortly.
Thanks for the help here.
Simon
I just wanted to let you know I will be trying your suggested patterns (or as many as I dare try) on my Beta 8as. I've made some 3-way open baffles and now that I've settled on a basic crossover it's time to turn up the clarity... 🙂
I will be re-looking at your work on your friends set and copying shortly.
Thanks for the help here.
Simon
Hi Simon,
Pictures are here Picasa Web Albums - Bud - Emminance Bet...
I have attached the pattern guide. Do pay attention to the need for applying an acrylic damping (post it note) type of glue to the back side of the cone, between the mid cone ring and the outer cone ring. The Beta 8 has a very brash Raleigh wave out there and until you get it sorted they will be over dynamic and bright. Once settled they are extremely clear , dynamic and if you have enough power, VERY LOUD!!!!!!!!
I included a set for the Delta 8 too. These came from the EnABL2 process and are from more advanced understanding of the problems involved than those for the Beta 8. While the cones are somewhat different I would suggest using the Delta 8 patterns sets over the Beta 8 ones.
Pictures are here Picasa Web Albums - Bud - Emminance Bet...
I have attached the pattern guide. Do pay attention to the need for applying an acrylic damping (post it note) type of glue to the back side of the cone, between the mid cone ring and the outer cone ring. The Beta 8 has a very brash Raleigh wave out there and until you get it sorted they will be over dynamic and bright. Once settled they are extremely clear , dynamic and if you have enough power, VERY LOUD!!!!!!!!
I included a set for the Delta 8 too. These came from the EnABL2 process and are from more advanced understanding of the problems involved than those for the Beta 8. While the cones are somewhat different I would suggest using the Delta 8 patterns sets over the Beta 8 ones.
My experience suggests that that figure is optimistic. It is hard to put a number to a qualitative assessment but in the past i have estimated that pre-treatment (on FE126/7) gets you about a 1/3 of the way to the total improvement after EnABL is added on top.
dave
Hmmmm. Perhaps I should be more explicit.
The white PVA will not provide ANY of the improvement in downward dynamics that EnABL provides. It will somewhat reduce all of the resonance peaks and quench the internal paper rumbling to a great degree. The result will be a less noisy and thus better defined bass performance and when used with other non EnABL'd drivers, this will provide better spatial que's and more coherent information, in an area that is usually pretty free of actual musical information, regardless of how much bass frequency response is provided.
No question that an EnABL processed woofer will out perform the PVA coated woofer. But for those areas I point to, I think the improvement is about that much. As an overall comparison, including the spatial and information coherence below the 40db down floor that even a PVA coated driver is not likely to extend beyond, your 1/3 number is pretty close.
Thanks. So I'll use only Mod Ponge first. Then, in some time - Enabl with Ed's KIT.
Dave - what did you finally do with Eminence Alphas ? You've planed 3-5thick coats of Mod Ponge/front of the cone and 2-3 coats/back. Did you do it ? Did you also fully Enabled these drivers ?
Dave - what did you finally do with Eminence Alphas ? You've planed 3-5thick coats of Mod Ponge/front of the cone and 2-3 coats/back. Did you do it ? Did you also fully Enabled these drivers ?
I didn't get a chance to tackle the EnABL before i had to install them in the MJK baffle for the event. They have 3 coats of modpodge on the front so far. When i pull them to EnABL i will evaluate.
dave
dave
Thanks for the extra info Bud. I think I'll have to print both sets of rings to appreciate the true differences there. I quite like the Beta 8a so far but, as you say, it's a tad on the bright and exuberant side. To stop it sounding nasal and brash in my open baffles I had to use quite a strong baffle step correction type filter (coil/resistor). I've also grounded the baskets and put electron pools on the terminals, and some sticky furniture pads on the underside of the spokes 🙂
OK. I think I'll just take your route 🙂 3 coats first and then I'll wait for your conclusions about Alpha 15.
Bud,
Would you approve this conclusion? :
1. PVA/Puzzlecoat by itself can improve clarity (self noise etc.)
2. Enabl itself (no gloss) can improve clarity
3. MicroGloss itself can worsen clarity
4. MicroGloss used onto cone with Enabl patterns improves clarity.
1. Yes
2. Yes, about 30% more clarity than PVA, when speaking of the original EnABL application patterns alone, no Gloss. The confusing thing is that this is additive to the PVA improvements, so EnABL/Gloss and PVA together add up to Dave's level of overall improvement.
3. No, but without EnABL patterns it will exaggerate some resonance nodes, while reducing others.
4. Yes, it is used to spread out the effect of the patterns placed at diaphragm edges, thereby reducing the overall negative effects of resonance nodes.
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Thank you ! This was quite confusing indeed ! Now it's finally clear to me.
One can say about Gloss that it is a double-edged weapon. Has to be used carefully.
One can say about Gloss that it is a double-edged weapon. Has to be used carefully.
Question for you Bud, if I may: with the Beta and Delta pattern rings - should I use the complete Delta set for the front and the Beta rear ring on top of that? The main difference appears to be the inner dome ring, which is smaller on the Delta patterns.
The other thing I want to know is why a couple of the patterns have a space / ring around them - is that meant to be there or just an artefact of drawing them up? Or is it to illustrate how set in from an edge the patterns will be when painted?
Do I simply print with no page scaling or margins (as I've done), cut out, and paint around the outside edge of each pattern ring?
Sorry for the questions, just not sure how best to use these nice pattern sets that I've printed and cut out.
Thanks,
Simon
The other thing I want to know is why a couple of the patterns have a space / ring around them - is that meant to be there or just an artefact of drawing them up? Or is it to illustrate how set in from an edge the patterns will be when painted?
Do I simply print with no page scaling or margins (as I've done), cut out, and paint around the outside edge of each pattern ring?
Sorry for the questions, just not sure how best to use these nice pattern sets that I've printed and cut out.
Thanks,
Simon
I went ahead and did some patterns. I'm listening now and I'd say the sound has improved but, just as you said Bud, the emphasis/resonance from these drivers is more prominent now. Otherwise I seem to have a more dynamic and richly textured sound. I'll do the paint-on treatments in the next few days.
Attachments
Excellent workmanship Simon, you are hired!
The damping material is an ever sticky paper glue that is sold in woman's craft supply store for scrap book purposes. It is an Acrylic glue and, placed on the back side, from the ring across the suspension to the frame, will kill that resonant emphasis. You can get an idea of where it is coming from, by using the back tip of your pen tip holder and tapping in a radial fashion from VC to surround. Just beyond that mid cone ring the sound will become sharper and louder and if you listen you can hear that it is coming from the entire circumference of the cone.
As for Gloss coat, I would mix it 25% gloss to 75% clean water and apply just one coat on the cone. I would also add a round dot of paint in that center triangle and a drop of PVA on top, if you have it, to quench the beaming from the dome.
The damping material is an ever sticky paper glue that is sold in woman's craft supply store for scrap book purposes. It is an Acrylic glue and, placed on the back side, from the ring across the suspension to the frame, will kill that resonant emphasis. You can get an idea of where it is coming from, by using the back tip of your pen tip holder and tapping in a radial fashion from VC to surround. Just beyond that mid cone ring the sound will become sharper and louder and if you listen you can hear that it is coming from the entire circumference of the cone.
As for Gloss coat, I would mix it 25% gloss to 75% clean water and apply just one coat on the cone. I would also add a round dot of paint in that center triangle and a drop of PVA on top, if you have it, to quench the beaming from the dome.