You are absolutely right, in my eyes, Carlos.
Your AMPs are "jewels", can compete with any other "brand".
Volker's BlameES, the one I listened to, has nothing to do anymore with a "DIY-built in a second" AMP-kit.
It is a mature, adult, outstanding product, able to smash most of the so-called "HighEnd brands".
Why throw away all your experiences, efforts, time, health ..., "for nothing"?
Your are on the right way.
Rudi_Ratlos - (Future) Vice-Admiral of DXCorp. Worldwide German Division
Your AMPs are "jewels", can compete with any other "brand".
Volker's BlameES, the one I listened to, has nothing to do anymore with a "DIY-built in a second" AMP-kit.
It is a mature, adult, outstanding product, able to smash most of the so-called "HighEnd brands".
Why throw away all your experiences, efforts, time, health ..., "for nothing"?
Your are on the right way.
Rudi_Ratlos - (Future) Vice-Admiral of DXCorp. Worldwide German Division
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You know dear Rudi, and forum friends, the ones have patience to read my texts
I do not believe in "I have not time"...i think this is just a justification, an escape, an excuse when people do not want to do something....i think you drink your sweet beverage while listening musics for time enougtht o build one amplifier each two days...so, it is a matter of priority..when we abandon something to do other thing.
These ones say have not time, spend hours in long showers, they spend all nigth (sometimes when young) having dates (understood what i mean), they eat and spend long time doing it... and some of them uses time for other things... when a woman calls by phone they find time.
Have not time is an excuse.
Whey you said has not time and will help someone in Belgium, i found this great, and also i understood you had lost interest in the Blame...you found something not really good for your ears...no problems... i still have both and i found Blame much better..but they are all good, alles gut.
And they are all mine amplifiers, so, people building one or other..it is great to me... filling my heart with pleasant moments, because i feel myself someone that contributes, that helps people to enjoy music, to enjoy life and be happy.. if Blame, Standard, Trust, HRII, Precision 1 or DHR turbo, i don't mind.
regards,
Carl Von Dx
................................................................................................
Dx Corporation Marketing group, advertising number 0-223734- ST
image : "Destroyers in the giant "Armada" to search and destroy bad sonics"
I do not believe in "I have not time"...i think this is just a justification, an escape, an excuse when people do not want to do something....i think you drink your sweet beverage while listening musics for time enougtht o build one amplifier each two days...so, it is a matter of priority..when we abandon something to do other thing.
These ones say have not time, spend hours in long showers, they spend all nigth (sometimes when young) having dates (understood what i mean), they eat and spend long time doing it... and some of them uses time for other things... when a woman calls by phone they find time.
Have not time is an excuse.
Whey you said has not time and will help someone in Belgium, i found this great, and also i understood you had lost interest in the Blame...you found something not really good for your ears...no problems... i still have both and i found Blame much better..but they are all good, alles gut.
And they are all mine amplifiers, so, people building one or other..it is great to me... filling my heart with pleasant moments, because i feel myself someone that contributes, that helps people to enjoy music, to enjoy life and be happy.. if Blame, Standard, Trust, HRII, Precision 1 or DHR turbo, i don't mind.
regards,
Carl Von Dx
................................................................................................
Dx Corporation Marketing group, advertising number 0-223734- ST
image : "Destroyers in the giant "Armada" to search and destroy bad sonics"
Attachments
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Brand new videos from Dx amplifiers.
YouTube - Enjoy Dx Blame ES.mpg
YouTube - Destroyer x amplifiers - pictures
YouTube - Dx Blame ES, the best sound!.avi
YouTube - Germans in Brazil, towns and people
one of them is big, 10 minutes long with 600 pictures from Dx amplifiers built all over the world.
regards,
Carlos
YouTube - Enjoy Dx Blame ES.mpg
YouTube - Destroyer x amplifiers - pictures
YouTube - Dx Blame ES, the best sound!.avi
YouTube - Germans in Brazil, towns and people
one of them is big, 10 minutes long with 600 pictures from Dx amplifiers built all over the world.
regards,
Carlos
Misunderstanding
You misunderstood me, dear Carlos.
The BlameES is of course the “King”, "Top of the Tops", ...
But: your DXAmp, the 1.st DIY-project I ever made, spending nights and nights assembling it, running as it should from
the very first moment, driving my DIY Little Susi desktop speakers – I fell in love with the DXAMP!!
Love – can this ever be replaced by an "analytical feeling"?
If I were objective I would throw the DXAmp into the waste and replace it by the BlameES.
I won’t do this.
It will always be the DXAmp, my first DXCorp product, my “Blood, Sweat and Tears – AMP ” that will receive my love.
Sound, Carlos, has a of course a lot to do with your ears, with sonics, but, perhaps even more, with your heart, your memory, your passion …
Rudi_Ratlos
P.S. The one who says that he has “analytical” ears is not yet born.
You misunderstood me, dear Carlos.
The BlameES is of course the “King”, "Top of the Tops", ...
But: your DXAmp, the 1.st DIY-project I ever made, spending nights and nights assembling it, running as it should from
the very first moment, driving my DIY Little Susi desktop speakers – I fell in love with the DXAMP!!
Love – can this ever be replaced by an "analytical feeling"?
If I were objective I would throw the DXAmp into the waste and replace it by the BlameES.
I won’t do this.
It will always be the DXAmp, my first DXCorp product, my “Blood, Sweat and Tears – AMP ” that will receive my love.
Sound, Carlos, has a of course a lot to do with your ears, with sonics, but, perhaps even more, with your heart, your memory, your passion …
Rudi_Ratlos
P.S. The one who says that he has “analytical” ears is not yet born.
Ahahahah.... a mistake?.... this will be the second today, i cut myself shaving
I will cook, for sure i will burn my fingers.... this is not a surprise to me dear Rudi.
I am glad you like those amplifiers, do not worry, you are inside my heart, you have an appartment inside my heart, and do not need to pay for rental...these things are just details between us.
Yes, the Dx amplifier was the first circuit i felt passion, was an old bootstrapped amplifier from the seventies...i know what you mean.
regards,
Carlos
I will cook, for sure i will burn my fingers.... this is not a surprise to me dear Rudi.
I am glad you like those amplifiers, do not worry, you are inside my heart, you have an appartment inside my heart, and do not need to pay for rental...these things are just details between us.
Yes, the Dx amplifier was the first circuit i felt passion, was an old bootstrapped amplifier from the seventies...i know what you mean.
regards,
Carlos
I looked it up in Selfs book. He shows a measurement comparison of an amp once with "wrong" NFB take off and once with "right" NFB take off.
The difference is about 3dB or so (roughly estimated by eye).
But these 3dB are completly independent of the basic amount of distortion. So it seems to worsen the performance by 3dB always and is therefore not only relevant for super duper amps that already have their 100dB THD. In other words this effect does not seem to be covered up by other distortions but seems to always multiply on top.
Of course the 3dB figure applies just to the example in the book and depends on the actual setup. So theres no way of knowing what this is doing to the BlameES as it is now, unless one measured it.
But thats not the point. I completely understand and respect your point of view, Carlos. What sounds good just sounds good.
One must realize the proportions of things.
Does it change things? Is it worth the effort?
Thats not up to me to decide.
I just point out that at this point there is the potential for further improvement.
But I also want to set the fact straight that...
Greg Erskine:
"D. Self showed the NFB point must be "exactly" in the middle of the emitter resistors for minimal THD."
...is not what Self sais!
He sais NFB must be taken off a wire that carries the full wave output current to achieve this.
The red line shows the path of the positive half-wave current
The cyan line shows the path of the negative half-wave current.
Where these two lines meet these half-wave rectified currents are added together to the full-wave output current that corresponds with the input signal.
The yellow line shows the portion on the PCB where the united full-wave current is flowing.
This yellow portion (before the indutcor of course) is where the NFB should be taken off according to Self to achieve minimum THD.
The difference is about 3dB or so (roughly estimated by eye).
But these 3dB are completly independent of the basic amount of distortion. So it seems to worsen the performance by 3dB always and is therefore not only relevant for super duper amps that already have their 100dB THD. In other words this effect does not seem to be covered up by other distortions but seems to always multiply on top.
Of course the 3dB figure applies just to the example in the book and depends on the actual setup. So theres no way of knowing what this is doing to the BlameES as it is now, unless one measured it.
But thats not the point. I completely understand and respect your point of view, Carlos. What sounds good just sounds good.
One must realize the proportions of things.
Does it change things? Is it worth the effort?
Thats not up to me to decide.
I just point out that at this point there is the potential for further improvement.
But I also want to set the fact straight that...
Greg Erskine:
"D. Self showed the NFB point must be "exactly" in the middle of the emitter resistors for minimal THD."
...is not what Self sais!
He sais NFB must be taken off a wire that carries the full wave output current to achieve this.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The red line shows the path of the positive half-wave current
The cyan line shows the path of the negative half-wave current.
Where these two lines meet these half-wave rectified currents are added together to the full-wave output current that corresponds with the input signal.
The yellow line shows the portion on the PCB where the united full-wave current is flowing.
This yellow portion (before the indutcor of course) is where the NFB should be taken off according to Self to achieve minimum THD.
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You can do this way in your amplifier, dear Krachkiste, if you want
Thank you, we gonna reflect, ponder on the subject,
and maybe we will use these ideas in the next model .....
Board layout responsable will decide to try or not to try
to the next model .. for sure this will not be harmfull for
us, if the audible effect does not appear while listening,
also cannot be bad either.
So, there's no special reason to keep the way it is for
the future models, next one ... for a while, nothing will be
changed, it is our rule not to go changing things already
finished and that received the approval, several boards
Delivered, several friends happy... we have not the urgency
To a recall because of that, something that we do not even know
Will result good for human ears, as we are not THD meters.
Nothing will be changed, at least for a while, time to create things,
to decide layout and all project decisions where taken, some Dr. Self
ideas also creates some controversies..you believe, then you should try.
Design circuit, test circuit, tweak circuit, create board...all that stuff was
made, tested and aproved...we are in the next step... the distribution.
By the way, we have Doctor Self book also, of course we have readed that,
but we felt a little bit exagerated his worries about that.
Because good education and because you are kind, i am answering you and
talking about the subject, but you must know, if have not this knowledge, that
i am not a theorical guy, i do not use to spend my time with these details.
regards,
Carlos
Thank you, we gonna reflect, ponder on the subject,
and maybe we will use these ideas in the next model .....
Board layout responsable will decide to try or not to try
to the next model .. for sure this will not be harmfull for
us, if the audible effect does not appear while listening,
also cannot be bad either.
So, there's no special reason to keep the way it is for
the future models, next one ... for a while, nothing will be
changed, it is our rule not to go changing things already
finished and that received the approval, several boards
Delivered, several friends happy... we have not the urgency
To a recall because of that, something that we do not even know
Will result good for human ears, as we are not THD meters.
Nothing will be changed, at least for a while, time to create things,
to decide layout and all project decisions where taken, some Dr. Self
ideas also creates some controversies..you believe, then you should try.
Design circuit, test circuit, tweak circuit, create board...all that stuff was
made, tested and aproved...we are in the next step... the distribution.
By the way, we have Doctor Self book also, of course we have readed that,
but we felt a little bit exagerated his worries about that.
Because good education and because you are kind, i am answering you and
talking about the subject, but you must know, if have not this knowledge, that
i am not a theorical guy, i do not use to spend my time with these details.
regards,
Carlos
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I already did it this way in my amp.
But I can't say, what it would sound like, if i did not.
In my amp (blameless inspired design with CFP output) increasing the standing current in the output devices over the value recommended by Self (factor 4 to 5, 20mV instead of 4.5mV) improved the sound "trimendously". (because of better switch-off behaviour i think, but I don't know what actually happened.)
The THD performance is said to be worse now, but it sounds much better.
But I can't say, what it would sound like, if i did not.
In my amp (blameless inspired design with CFP output) increasing the standing current in the output devices over the value recommended by Self (factor 4 to 5, 20mV instead of 4.5mV) improved the sound "trimendously". (because of better switch-off behaviour i think, but I don't know what actually happened.)
The THD performance is said to be worse now, but it sounds much better.
Be happy with your amplifier....enjoy sonics
Here we talk about the Blame and Dx amplifiers.
I suggest you to publish these things in your thread, i imagine you have one, i could see several threads openned about that last monthes....i have readed title.
There, saying you made the most correct way you will have more people building it...and share our amplifiers is delicious... open a thread, if have not one oppened, and enjoy.
I am taking care of what interests me....my own amplifier....i do not even visit other threads.
Carlos
Here we talk about the Blame and Dx amplifiers.
I suggest you to publish these things in your thread, i imagine you have one, i could see several threads openned about that last monthes....i have readed title.
There, saying you made the most correct way you will have more people building it...and share our amplifiers is delicious... open a thread, if have not one oppened, and enjoy.
I am taking care of what interests me....my own amplifier....i do not even visit other threads.
Carlos
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Sorry, I didn't want to pollute this thread with another amp's babble.
Just wanted to point out, that things in the real world don't stick to what is written in books with a personal example.
I do not want to compete, or say my amp is better. Just want to share experience.
Just wanted to point out, that things in the real world don't stick to what is written in books with a personal example.
I do not want to compete, or say my amp is better. Just want to share experience.
It's a very simple modification to cut the trace and add a jumper (to accomplish your black line). But without some compelling evidence of a significant (audible) improvement, I would not bother to modify the PCB layout to accommodate a jumper there. If you look at the output waveform on a scope and compare both places, they will not be different. You will not see a half wave on one end of the output trace and the other half wave at the other end.
..Todd
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Agreed. And I don't hear the THD numbers below a certain point. This amp is already FAR below that point. Your mileage may vary.
..Todd
Hey all together,
ok, some people have carneval, some others want to trimm the amp ;-)
Here i have a problem with my trimmpoties, i think tey are not the best, every time another bias, some 1-2 volts different, i´m getting something like " Krätze".... :-( I´ve told to rudi, please, i want the best potis, i´ts very important!! This is wat i got....and i´m not very happy!
Please, anyone can give me a chance for a better one?
ok, some people have carneval, some others want to trimm the amp ;-)
Here i have a problem with my trimmpoties, i think tey are not the best, every time another bias, some 1-2 volts different, i´m getting something like " Krätze".... :-( I´ve told to rudi, please, i want the best potis, i´ts very important!! This is wat i got....and i´m not very happy!
Please, anyone can give me a chance for a better one?
Attachments
Current is different when the amplifier is dead cold , warm and hot
So, your measurement will be different, as this voltage, as you know, represents current developed over the 100 ohms resistance.
The bias transistor is assembled in the main heatsink to sense temperature, when temperature increases, the transistor senses and decreases the internal resistance, and this decreases the stand by bias.
Check when dead cold... hours without operate..then switch it on and put the value in your memory...next day, or hours after, do the same again with the amplifier cold.... them the measurement should be the same..if really cold, and trimpot fine, measurement will be almost the same...if your mains supply, the house energy from the wall outlet is not too much unstable.
This lovely trimpot use to be very good,but vibrations may change it a little.... you can fix it, against vibrations with some kind of glue or nail varnish, these ones woman uses to paint her nails.
Multiturn trimpot is better, but this one use to work fine without troubles.
If you play loud, then current will be different than when you measure with your amplifier cold.... when temperature increases, current also increases and i suppose you will have higher voltage measured.
Really man, i do not use to worry to measure the bias when hot....i usually go monitoring temperature, if fine, then i use to relax... when we create amplifier, first we simulate and them we assemble... in this moment we check if temperature goes increasing too much, if not, the bias automatic heat compensation is working fine..and them we let the amplifier play and we go enjoying music.
In electronics, measurement are not perfect, say, voltages variates with the schematic reference... you can adjust off set to 500 microvolts and read this different next day...also voltages are acceptable when the variation is within plus and minus 10 percent, i do not bother, myself, with differences of plus and minus 20 percent, as this happens in my mains..so, as a result, i would have errors in my DC rectified and filtered voltage.
As your amplifier is cold dear ekkart, i would suggest you to relax, to stop to worry with these details and enjoy to listen music.... this amplifier was tested and does not create surprises, will not explode..... and bias, can be measured, without troubles, from 3.3 to 10 volts, and it can variate within this range, depending how hot your heatsink is or how cold it is.
Factories use to tollerate off set from -25 milivolts to +25 milivolts...in the reality, this can be much higher without problems.
Also factories suggest us to adjust bias, or readjust, from time to time, say, 5 years after you buy your equipment, or 5 years you build and adjust it.... bias can be wrong and higher, you know, class A amplifier works with 1 ampere or more without burn when heatsink is good... your is working with 0.075A.... so, relax.
regards,
Carlos
So, your measurement will be different, as this voltage, as you know, represents current developed over the 100 ohms resistance.
The bias transistor is assembled in the main heatsink to sense temperature, when temperature increases, the transistor senses and decreases the internal resistance, and this decreases the stand by bias.
Check when dead cold... hours without operate..then switch it on and put the value in your memory...next day, or hours after, do the same again with the amplifier cold.... them the measurement should be the same..if really cold, and trimpot fine, measurement will be almost the same...if your mains supply, the house energy from the wall outlet is not too much unstable.
This lovely trimpot use to be very good,but vibrations may change it a little.... you can fix it, against vibrations with some kind of glue or nail varnish, these ones woman uses to paint her nails.
Multiturn trimpot is better, but this one use to work fine without troubles.
If you play loud, then current will be different than when you measure with your amplifier cold.... when temperature increases, current also increases and i suppose you will have higher voltage measured.
Really man, i do not use to worry to measure the bias when hot....i usually go monitoring temperature, if fine, then i use to relax... when we create amplifier, first we simulate and them we assemble... in this moment we check if temperature goes increasing too much, if not, the bias automatic heat compensation is working fine..and them we let the amplifier play and we go enjoying music.
In electronics, measurement are not perfect, say, voltages variates with the schematic reference... you can adjust off set to 500 microvolts and read this different next day...also voltages are acceptable when the variation is within plus and minus 10 percent, i do not bother, myself, with differences of plus and minus 20 percent, as this happens in my mains..so, as a result, i would have errors in my DC rectified and filtered voltage.
As your amplifier is cold dear ekkart, i would suggest you to relax, to stop to worry with these details and enjoy to listen music.... this amplifier was tested and does not create surprises, will not explode..... and bias, can be measured, without troubles, from 3.3 to 10 volts, and it can variate within this range, depending how hot your heatsink is or how cold it is.
Factories use to tollerate off set from -25 milivolts to +25 milivolts...in the reality, this can be much higher without problems.
Also factories suggest us to adjust bias, or readjust, from time to time, say, 5 years after you buy your equipment, or 5 years you build and adjust it.... bias can be wrong and higher, you know, class A amplifier works with 1 ampere or more without burn when heatsink is good... your is working with 0.075A.... so, relax.
regards,
Carlos
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This one is a better idea, not for prototypes, because sometimes we need to turn fast
and multiturn never turns fast... also the thin leads broke very easy, it is tall, or high, and this produce enormous Lever, fulcrum, mechanically it is dangerous as if you hit by accident, or something fall, it will have the leads broken.. they are very fragille.
But even with this one, you will have variations when the amplifier is cold or hot.
regards,
Carlos
and multiturn never turns fast... also the thin leads broke very easy, it is tall, or high, and this produce enormous Lever, fulcrum, mechanically it is dangerous as if you hit by accident, or something fall, it will have the leads broken.. they are very fragille.
But even with this one, you will have variations when the amplifier is cold or hot.
regards,
Carlos
dear Carlos,
yes, this is wat i want to do 🙂
and, i know and herad, this amp can do it, realy, but he have to do this every day, not only after adjusting the bias. So, please beleave me, the bias is running away, every day :-(
There is a good example: Sabine Meyer playing her Klarinette ( Carl Maria Weber, conertino op.26) She is playing in front of the orchestra, in the middle. Your DX Blame ES will do it very good, making a nice 3d sound, so you can hear everything at the right place....but it´s every day another place?!? Why, i want to find out.. If there is the sound on the left side, putting on the Multimeters, they show me the bias on left side is more as on right side,...it is very important for real good 3d sound to have a stable bias on both sides, nothing else i want. And afterwords i want to replace the trimmpotis with resistors, but i need a real stable Ohm for this....
Mhm, not realy good english, you have understood my problem???
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