Driver suggestion.

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Big Kev !

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Joined 2004
#1
Hey guys,

Its been a long time coming but I'm finally getting around to putting a sub in my room. I've had a look all around the internet and keep getting mixed opinions and unfortunatly I can't hear these subs before purchasing. My primary use is music but I also watch movies every so often something loud and smooth would be nice preferably +100dB @ 20Hz.

To run the sub I'm going to use a Behringer A500 which is 500W @ 8 Ohms and a Jaycar sub processor.

One of the biggest problems I'm facing is driver avalibility, shipping from parts express is more than the driver over here. I've had a serious look at the Peerless range, specifically the 830500 and thought about going that with a PR although I've had conflicting opinions on the Peerless range with some calling them overatted and other praising them. I've also had a look into some of the higher end "car audio" drivers in particular the Phoenix Gold Xenon series subs caught my eye as in a moderatly sized sealed box they had a very low smooth output (-3dB @ 29Hz in WinISD) and can be had in Aus for a bit more than the Peerless driver mentioned. I've emailed the distributor for Adire over here but I don't think they've had any stock of Adire products for some time.

Any suggestions or experiences would be greatly appreciated - I can't wait to get in the shed and start building 🙂

Cheers
 
#2
Dear Sir,

please excuse me if I ask you a question off-topic.
First of all I cannot give you any useful advice.
By the way I see that you use a Behringer A500.
I am very interested in this amp for a stereo system.
I understand that you use it bridged.
Have you had the opportunity to try it as a stereo power amp?
Whit which speakers ?
What do you think of its sound ?

Sorry again and kind regards,

beppe
Italy
 
#3
No problems, although I'm still waiting for the amp to come in, hopefully I'll be able to pick it up before the end of the week. I have a few speakers and I play to try it out as a stereo amp as well and see how it goes, I will post up my findings on here when I do 🙂

Still searching for a suitable driver, so any opinions or suggestions (there must be some 😉) would be great. I'll have the chance to try out the Xenon sub soon so that will be interesting, I would really love to try out the Peerless subs but I don't know anyone with any. A question on the side, is it true in saying that adding a PR will give you a greater increase in SPL than just a vented box?

Cheers

Kev
 
#6
vented and pr give the same SPL, there is no diference.

if you told us what was available over there we could help more.

peerless drivers however, from what measurements ive seen over the years, are very low distortion drivers, although they are by no means a "super woofer" anymore, and their excursion is somewhat average, maybe even a bit below(12.5mm one way linear i believe), they are very good sounding drivers and still get use in many highly regarded designs(mr linkwitz there is a big fan of em).

try doing some simulations for an XLS or XXLS in vented or pr systems, remember that you will gain 3db from predicted spl in the program(i reccomend winISD) by putting it on the flor, another 3db with floor and a wall, and ANOTHER 3db if you shove it in a corner. And plan with a bit of headroom too! watch those excursion graphs!

you also never told us how large your room was!

bottom line is i would be VERY suprised if a properly powered 12" XLS in a properly designed PR design couldnt crack 100db at 20hz in room. worst comes to worst you coudl always build a pair!
 
#7
johngalt47 said:
Can you tell me which brands are readily available there?
Click to expand...

Over here I can get the Response drivers, Peerless drivers, just about all the highend "car audio" drivers although while some of them model quite similar to some renouned home drivers they often cost a fair bit more. I've contacted the supplier for Adire because for the past year there hasnt been any stock of them and he currently has the Shiva 10" and 15", Tempest 10" 12" and 15" and Tumult 12" and 15". I am now going to contact him with regards to pricing. And that pretty much sums it up 🙁 Any other drivers people use down here are generally shipped in.


xstephanx said:
vented and pr give the same SPL, there is no diference.

if you told us what was available over there we could help more.

peerless drivers however, from what measurements ive seen over the years, are very low distortion drivers, although they are by no means a "super woofer" anymore, and their excursion is somewhat average, maybe even a bit below(12.5mm one way linear i believe), they are very good sounding drivers and still get use in many highly regarded designs(mr linkwitz there is a big fan of em).

try doing some simulations for an XLS or XXLS in vented or pr systems, remember that you will gain 3db from predicted spl in the program(i reccomend winISD) by putting it on the flor, another 3db with floor and a wall, and ANOTHER 3db if you shove it in a corner. And plan with a bit of headroom too! watch those excursion graphs!

you also never told us how large your room was!

bottom line is i would be VERY suprised if a properly powered 12" XLS in a properly designed PR design couldnt crack 100db at 20hz in room. worst comes to worst you coudl always build a pair!
Click to expand...

My room is about 4x4meters. 100dB was just a ballpark I basically want a nice sounding sub that can go loud 😀 but my main obstical is I dont have the resources to try out a lot of combinations. The 830500 + PR seems to be pretty good but everyone seems to have different sized weights for their PR's and I don't really know how to setup a PR properly.

Thanks a lot for your replies 🙂

Kev
 
#8
how much weight to add to the pr, tunes it, and is the same thing as adding length to a vent. download winisd and play around with the XLS. i hate to do it, but i have to reccomend against adire, ive heard nothing but complaints for the past year about their warranty service.

BUT there is an elemental designs 15" woofer, that has VERY similar parameters to the older tempest(back when it came as JUST a 15) so see if you guys get eD.
 
#9
I've played around with the 830500 but the only problem is it behaves very differently to most other drivers I've played around with. Even with Peerless recommended tunings it seems to have a pretty steep roll off.

I understand how you say adding weight tunes it like adding length to a port but how do you know what weight to start with and how to increase it (what increments). I only have WinISD so I can't model excursion which I believe is an issue with PR designs. I will have a 20Hz rumble filter.

Thanks again. 🙂
 
#11
Been playing around with WinISD Pro, very intresting. Went to the shop I ordered the Behringer amp from and they said it will be in next week.

Still having trouble deciding on a sub, theres just too many varibles :xeye:

Here are the options so far:

Peerless XXLS 830845
Goes well in a sealed box, avalible in Aus ~$300 + Shipping

Peerless XLS 830500 + PR
Only real issues are it starts getting expensive.

Adire, Shiva and Tempest (waiting for prices)

Hmmm as I write this I'm leaning towards the XXLS, my only concern is output, I will feel limited if I turn it up (on the odd ocassion) and it isnt really loud.

My other options are shipping in a driver from overseas. My only real issue with this is I havent really ordered anything overseas before and so the whole expereince is a little new to me.
 
#12
I've got updated prices for the Adire drivers.

Shiva
15" $240.00

Tempest
10" $262.80
12" $275.00
15" $305.00

15" would seem to be nice for output although box size starts getting large (and of course 12" is cheaper).

Has anyone built subs with the new Adire range? A Tempest 12D4 in a 60Ltr box tuned low could be nice and would give an extra bit of bass (being vented) while still retaining a smaller box size.

Thoughts?

Cheers 🙂
 
#13
Has anyone tried the new Tempests, I'm trying to decide between the XXLS 830845 and the new Tempest as both are around the same price unfortunatly I don't have any chance to try either out before I buy, any opinions? I would like to run it in a sealed box which has me leaning towards the XXLS but the Tempest has 18mm Xmax as opposed to the XXLS's 12.5.

Cheers 🙂
 
#15
We can get Infinity speakers over here although they are not terribly common. At the moment I'm using a the Behringer A500 power amp with a Jaycar Sub Bass Processor which I've just finished building and using it with a Hertz ES driver which is only temporary. The Hertz driver I'm using is alright but has limited excursion and isn't in its ideal box.

Comparing the Tempest to the Peerless driver (both in sealed boxes) would the extra excursion of the Tempest give it more SPL? While SQ is the main priority I would like the be able to crank it on the odd occasion. I'm getting from Mach5Audio a 12" driver (thanks Mark 😀) in around a month so I'll be able compare what I get now with it.

Another kind of off topic query, I seem to be getting a 50Hz (I'm guessing) hum through the subwoofer. I've checked thats its not the Sub processor so I'm guessing its caused at the amp stage. My Dad had the same issue with his subwoofer, which used a plate amp and if I recall correctly we were told you can put some sort of filter to stop it. We ended up just cutting the ground cord on the plat amp and it went away, however I can't really do that with my amp. I'm guessing this is some kind of issue with the houses power supply?

Cheers

Kev
 
#16
How big can you make your subwoofer. 2x Peerless XXLS drivers in a sealed sub creates amazing amounts of clean bass. The bigger you can make your box the better they will sound. Around 150L for the 830845 model sounds great. One in a 75L box is good too but not as loud. 😉
 
#17
Have you used/got the 830845? What do you think of it compared to other stuff? Hmm I'm thinking I should just bite the bullet and get one and see how it goes. The box I have at the moment is 70L sealed and is a nice compromise between avalible space and volume (for my room). I don't have an issue making another box though (working at a hardware store so MDF is cheaper). 2 would be nice but for now I'll leave myself with room to upgrade. I'm just worried that maybe either going the PR approach or vented or a Tempest or something will give me more SPL that I may want. Unfortunatly I can't listen to a XXLS or whatever first and find what I want 🙁
 
#18
The A500 amp doesn't have a lot of power for a sub. Bridged it will only drive an 8 ohm driver, which counts out most subs! Even the XLS has an impedance which dips down very low, and Stones Sound Studio recommend that a 4 ohm stable amp is required for the XLS rated at 8 ohms nominal.

The A500 amp could be used to drive two 4 ohm drivers with 230w each, or two 8 ohm drivers with 160w each.

A good choice for your amp would be two of the XLS, each in a vented box. They could be push pull mounted, and with the power being a little limited, you would find that the excursion limitation of the drivers should not be an issue, if the rumble filter is switched on. I assume you made the Jaycar kit.

Alternatively, a 15" Tempest should also give you a good result. It would be cheaper, produce a similar SPL, but probably slightly higher distortion. You would want to have an 8 ohm impedance to be able to bridge the amp.

Another alternative is two Shiva 15s.

I would not discount the idea of shipping drivers - better value can sometimes be had this way.

Choosing an amp before choosing the driver isn't a great idea, now you are limiting your choices. Ideally you should buy only after designing the system - driver, amp, box, and how you are going to integrate it with filters.
 
#19
Yeah I built the Jaycar kit and have it mounted with its own power supply in a box as a stand alone unit. The other alternative to the A500 was getting a Jaycar plate amp and I figured (seeing as though they are similarly priced) it would be better to get the A500 for a bit more grunt. The sub thats running off the A500 now dips to around 5Ohms at points but seems to run fine.

2 Subs would be nice but the money factor holds me back a bit. When you say XLS I assume you mean the 830500? As far as I know the Shiva's and Tempests can be had in dual 4 Ohm models so running one won't be a problem.
 
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