Member
Joined 2002
There are many ways you can get a cool, similar finish, but the dyed/sanded wood has that 3D shimmer to it that just can't be beat.
Exactly, the flat grain(less dense) areas absorb the dye deeply, the ridges where grain changes orientation don't absorb the dye much at all. When you sand, you take the thin layer of dyed wood off the ridges. Use fine sandpaper, 220 at least. Takes longer but gives you more control.
The idea for doing this came to me when I was block sanding my ex-project car. To find low/high spots in the body work, you spary a thin coat of black over primer and sand with a flat, light block. The low spots stay black and the primer shows through on the high ridges. Then I gave it a shot with wood, not the first/only one for sure.
I hope I finish my speakers first! I planned on the same finish! Don't want to look like a copy cat.
Exactly, the flat grain(less dense) areas absorb the dye deeply, the ridges where grain changes orientation don't absorb the dye much at all. When you sand, you take the thin layer of dyed wood off the ridges. Use fine sandpaper, 220 at least. Takes longer but gives you more control.
The idea for doing this came to me when I was block sanding my ex-project car. To find low/high spots in the body work, you spary a thin coat of black over primer and sand with a flat, light block. The low spots stay black and the primer shows through on the high ridges. Then I gave it a shot with wood, not the first/only one for sure.
I hope I finish my speakers first! I planned on the same finish! Don't want to look like a copy cat.
Re: Copycat
I don't think you have to worry about me finishing first. I've kinda been continually working on this project for the last 3 years and I think that I spend about 90% more time thinking about it (mostly when I should be paying attention in class), than actually doing anything.
Thanks for the info
-Wes
I don't think you have to worry about me finishing first. I've kinda been continually working on this project for the last 3 years and I think that I spend about 90% more time thinking about it (mostly when I should be paying attention in class), than actually doing anything.
Thanks for the info
-Wes
The grain pattern looks a lot like what the veneer suppliers call "quilted maple." I've used it before and it's beautiful wood.
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All the elements to the explation are here you just need to put them together.
This is indeed quilted maple and illusus has described most of the process.
You do need to colour the veneer. There are a number of ways. If you want to go the aniline dye way you should moisten the surface of the veneer with a clean damp rag. This will raise the grain a little bit. Let it dry. The next day or the afternoon if you did it in the morning you can apply the dye over the surface. You will get the colour variation. Then you can sand by hand with the grit sugested. If you like the colour clear coat a couple of times and then follow normal finishing practice.
Method number two involves a hybrid. Do the moisten bit. Mix up a batch of filler and tint it. It could be plaster of paris. Mix in some carbon black or black vegetable dye. Spread this slurry all over the surface and let it dry thoroughly. Sand untill you get the colour effect that you want. With this tequnique you can dye again using the aniline dye to create more shading while keeping the darker hilights.
PRACTICE FIRST
No Kidding
If you get the hang of this you can create some wicked effects.
P.S. The more quilted the maple the better the effect as you can see on the B&W's. They go through a hell of alot of veneer before they find that stuff. Better go in with some pictures before you buy. Because it is usually ordered sight unseen if you go with a paper back there has to be some damn good communication for something of this nature.
Mark
This is indeed quilted maple and illusus has described most of the process.
You do need to colour the veneer. There are a number of ways. If you want to go the aniline dye way you should moisten the surface of the veneer with a clean damp rag. This will raise the grain a little bit. Let it dry. The next day or the afternoon if you did it in the morning you can apply the dye over the surface. You will get the colour variation. Then you can sand by hand with the grit sugested. If you like the colour clear coat a couple of times and then follow normal finishing practice.
Method number two involves a hybrid. Do the moisten bit. Mix up a batch of filler and tint it. It could be plaster of paris. Mix in some carbon black or black vegetable dye. Spread this slurry all over the surface and let it dry thoroughly. Sand untill you get the colour effect that you want. With this tequnique you can dye again using the aniline dye to create more shading while keeping the darker hilights.
PRACTICE FIRST
No Kidding
If you get the hang of this you can create some wicked effects.
P.S. The more quilted the maple the better the effect as you can see on the B&W's. They go through a hell of alot of veneer before they find that stuff. Better go in with some pictures before you buy. Because it is usually ordered sight unseen if you go with a paper back there has to be some damn good communication for something of this nature.
Mark
Originally posted by Byrd
Heatmiser - There is a history.
Thanks for filling in those details. I stand corrected.
ShinOBIWAN, I owe you an apology for jumping on you like I did.
That's what I get for taking terms like "real wood veneers" at face value even when they come from a brochure. Those marketing folks are more creative (better liars) than I thought.
Lou, what kind of veneer was that?
I know you said it was man-made, do you remember how much it cost? My speakers are 5 feet tall ESL base cabinets so I really don't think I can afford birds eye maple, but maybe some other type of cheaper veneer would still look good. Although that grain pattern is really sweet.
Does anyone have recommendations for cheaper types of veneer that might still look good with this finish?
Thanks all,
-Wes
I know you said it was man-made, do you remember how much it cost? My speakers are 5 feet tall ESL base cabinets so I really don't think I can afford birds eye maple, but maybe some other type of cheaper veneer would still look good. Although that grain pattern is really sweet.
Does anyone have recommendations for cheaper types of veneer that might still look good with this finish?
Thanks all,
-Wes
Thanks Guys,
Ok, so I've already sunk several years and countless dollars into these things so I'm leaning toward the quilted or birds eye maple. 2 questions.
1) How did you all apply the veneer? Rag, Sponge? Like I said before I have pretty large areas to cover so I'm wondering how I can keep it uniform.
2) Has anyone ordered veneer online? Are these companies reputable?
Thanks,
Wes
Ok, so I've already sunk several years and countless dollars into these things so I'm leaning toward the quilted or birds eye maple. 2 questions.
1) How did you all apply the veneer? Rag, Sponge? Like I said before I have pretty large areas to cover so I'm wondering how I can keep it uniform.
2) Has anyone ordered veneer online? Are these companies reputable?
Thanks,
Wes
I've ordered veneer from tape-ease and from Constantines online and was pleased in both cases. Of course, the tape-ease veneer was Alder which doesn't really require seeing before buying, but turned out to be exceptionally good quality regardless. And the Constanties was an "on special" Carpathian Elm Burl that does actually look quite nice, but wouldn't have bothered me much if it hadn't because the price was really good.
For quilted maple, and for a project like this where the grain pattern will stand out even more than normal, I'd definitely suggest seeing before buying. Plan a trip to a physical veneer wholesaler.
Alternatives to the expensive quilted maple might include "imitation" and pre-dyed veneers... made from real wood, very similar to the process B&W uses. From Constantines, here is an Ash burl that's much less expensive and has a really nice figuring (and since it is "manmade" from real wood, the figuring is more uniform and repeatable):
And for a really beautiful sample of quilted maple:
For quilted maple, and for a project like this where the grain pattern will stand out even more than normal, I'd definitely suggest seeing before buying. Plan a trip to a physical veneer wholesaler.
Alternatives to the expensive quilted maple might include "imitation" and pre-dyed veneers... made from real wood, very similar to the process B&W uses. From Constantines, here is an Ash burl that's much less expensive and has a really nice figuring (and since it is "manmade" from real wood, the figuring is more uniform and repeatable):
And for a really beautiful sample of quilted maple:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
TWO GLUE OR NOT TO GLUE
MR. wrl
Now the fun begins. There are a number of ways to do this.
If you have an air compressor email me. There are some cool things that you can do. It's called a vacuum press. This uses yellow carpenters glue or fancy urethane glue. And a big plastic bag.
If you want to, use contact cement ( I don't recommend it personally)
Learn what is involved to do it with hide glue. It's the best. Requires not a lot of equipment and can be done with a bit of practice. Double boiler and a veneer hammer that you can put together yourself in a pinch. THe rest is plain old skill.
Need more info ?
I have personally done them all. And if you need some more info I would be happy to help. There are some guys on the forum who also know what they are doing. Illusus is one of them so maybe he has something to add.
Mark
MR. wrl
Now the fun begins. There are a number of ways to do this.
If you have an air compressor email me. There are some cool things that you can do. It's called a vacuum press. This uses yellow carpenters glue or fancy urethane glue. And a big plastic bag.
If you want to, use contact cement ( I don't recommend it personally)
Learn what is involved to do it with hide glue. It's the best. Requires not a lot of equipment and can be done with a bit of practice. Double boiler and a veneer hammer that you can put together yourself in a pinch. THe rest is plain old skill.
Need more info ?
I have personally done them all. And if you need some more info I would be happy to help. There are some guys on the forum who also know what they are doing. Illusus is one of them so maybe he has something to add.
Mark
I don't recommend contact cement either, it's a pain to use, stinks, and the fumes can ruin the finish, sometimes the finish dissolves the glue. It has a longer half life than it seems. It's just not reliable.
If you don't have a press or the resources to make one, I recommend iron-on glue. It works really well for what it is -easy. Spread on both veneer and substrate, wait, iron through a cloth. If you get a bubble, just iron it out, I love it for 'quickies'. I haven't tried it on very large surfaces yet but one of my collegues said it works very well.
Get some(or make some) veneer softener spray, it makes the job a lot easier. There are some very good ones out there...out of boredom I veneered a pencil with waterfall Bubinga, I don't remember the name of the stuff that let me do that though, I got it as a sample.
Search around on the interweb for some tutorials.
Oh, if it's your first time veneering or using a certain product - practice!
If you don't have a press or the resources to make one, I recommend iron-on glue. It works really well for what it is -easy. Spread on both veneer and substrate, wait, iron through a cloth. If you get a bubble, just iron it out, I love it for 'quickies'. I haven't tried it on very large surfaces yet but one of my collegues said it works very well.
Get some(or make some) veneer softener spray, it makes the job a lot easier. There are some very good ones out there...out of boredom I veneered a pencil with waterfall Bubinga, I don't remember the name of the stuff that let me do that though, I got it as a sample.
Search around on the interweb for some tutorials.
Oh, if it's your first time veneering or using a certain product - practice!
I ordered 2 ply veneer from tape-ese. It is really hard to mess up using this, but it costs more. also the corners reveal the thickness, but I used a dark wood with simple grain which hides this. No problem with bubbling, etc. I used quality contact cement- seems to work OK, but you HAVE to use a 4" wide foam roller to apply it!!!A brush doesn't do it!!!
Nice piggy!
Yes, good results can be had with contact. It's just not very user friendly, especially for the impatient or first-timers.
Once I was working alone and my wife snuck up on me as I was aligning veneer she scared me (but good!!) and I stumbled, pressing the veneer onto the tabletop, about 15 degrees and two inches off my mark. It was pretty hard to fix.
Yes, good results can be had with contact. It's just not very user friendly, especially for the impatient or first-timers.
Once I was working alone and my wife snuck up on me as I was aligning veneer she scared me (but good!!) and I stumbled, pressing the veneer onto the tabletop, about 15 degrees and two inches off my mark. It was pretty hard to fix.
I once refinished a large veneered table top. I had the same worries as you, so I simply used a 10" roller. After a delay for the stain to give the depth I wanted, (found by experimentation on test pieces), quickly wipe most of the surplus off with lots of clean, dry rags. You then have a little time to go over do a final clean up.
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