What a load of crap. A shunt cap does not change the signal to the woofer the amp is still directly connected, this is the most basic electronics there is and if you can't understand that there little hope.
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This reminds me of something I read back in the 80s, I think in an article about an Advent or KLH speaker designed by Henry Kloss, concerning the tradeoffs made in designing an inexpensive speaker that still performed at an "acceptable" level. To accomplish that, the article's author explained that if say, an inexpensive tweeter had a bump somewhere in its output, the crossover, enclosure or any other potentially budget-friendly part that interacted with that tweeter would be designed to produce an appropriate effect that would exhibit a dip - i.e. the inverse of the tweeter's bump - in its output at around the same frequency, resulting in a flatter overall frequency response when the driver was operating in the finished system. For example, IIRC some speakers, instead of a resistor or level control, relied on a specific type of grille cloth to reduce their tweeters' output enough to help it blend better with the woofer!
So yep, replacing components in a system with non-identical components, no matter what their price point, without knowing the characteristics of all the other parts in that system can very possibly cause undesired sonic outcomes.
Bonus thoughts on this subject.😀 This situation is why I find reviews of non-hi-end speakers more interesting than reviews of something that say, cost $10K for a pair of floorstanding 2-ways. Because if a designer only has X dollars to work with, say $500 per pair for that same configuration, he/she must do all kinds of juggling of drivers, xover, cabinet material, construction techniques etc etc etc to create something that performs acceptably but is still priced within the budget of the intended customer.
I'm late to this but high quality crossover parts absolutely make a difference, but those who are talking about the importance of other design aspects are correct. I would be happy to help with your crossover design. Post some pictures of the measurements!
The speakers are all part of my own restoration/customizing of the console.
The woofers are long-throw, high compliance, beefy ones.
And man do they crank out that nice, satisfying deep bass when needed.
Of course, the cabinet has added woodworking done by me - now 1 inch thick walls.
I don't want to "hear" the console cabinet, just the speakers.
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I've always favored the "Kloss" speaker sound.
Neutral, pleasent, non-fatiquing.
I've had the KLH's, Boston Acoustics, Advents, Dynacos.
Now using the Advent Maestros in the main system and been happy with them.
Pity you didn´t catch the very obvious and funny sarcasm 🙄
The "payment accepted in bugs" should have been a clue. 😛
This was the first clue:
"unique and vintage 'Gold-Ear SLD Capacitors' with manganese oxygen cores"
Payment in bugs was the second
😀
"unique and vintage 'Gold-Ear SLD Capacitors' with manganese oxygen cores"
Payment in bugs was the second
😀
I'm not sure what "high quality" crossover parts really means. I don't know how someone measures "quality" in a part. Nor do I know how someone could tell if a part was "low quality" instead.
If you are referring to price as a measure of quality, as I suspect your are, there is no evidence whatsoever to support your claim that more expensive parts have any effect on the sound.
There is lots of conjecture, lots of opinions, and lots of claims made by people who think that they hear a difference, but no scientific reason to expect one. To the best of my knowledge no one has ever been able to actually measure a difference in the speaker's performance simply by changing to a more expensive capacitor in a crossover.
So this is all mental gymnastics primarily driven by people who want to hear a difference to justify the extra money they spend. In short, it is essentially confirmation bias.
I believe the quality of caps matters as much as the quality of copper in my cables (approximately nothing what so ever).
And I don't have any passive crossovers since I think passive crossovers are theoretically and practically a silly idea today for audiophiles.... but I did some tweeter testing a few weeks ago.
I found some 50 uF electrolytic caps in my scrap box - decades old - and wired two in series as DC protection for testing. The testing was crude. Not loud and not careful and so the distortion was way higher than if I tried to be careful. Just wanted quick FR.
Below is THD with REW on a ribbon tweeter. With those ancient lousy electrolytic caps in the network, the total distortion of the tweeter, mic, my old amps, DACs, and other junk in series in the network gets down to .25% (the max distortion is of no importance).
So I'd guess the two ancient electrolytic caps are adding .01% distortion to the mix. Might be too much for some members here.
Ribbon tweeters are pretty great, eh. This Foster (T110 - might be a prototype) is about 40 yrs old.
B.
And I don't have any passive crossovers since I think passive crossovers are theoretically and practically a silly idea today for audiophiles.... but I did some tweeter testing a few weeks ago.
I found some 50 uF electrolytic caps in my scrap box - decades old - and wired two in series as DC protection for testing. The testing was crude. Not loud and not careful and so the distortion was way higher than if I tried to be careful. Just wanted quick FR.
Below is THD with REW on a ribbon tweeter. With those ancient lousy electrolytic caps in the network, the total distortion of the tweeter, mic, my old amps, DACs, and other junk in series in the network gets down to .25% (the max distortion is of no importance).
So I'd guess the two ancient electrolytic caps are adding .01% distortion to the mix. Might be too much for some members here.
Ribbon tweeters are pretty great, eh. This Foster (T110 - might be a prototype) is about 40 yrs old.
B.
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Could you please gratify us by simply naming one or a few parameters of "subtle difference" where you possess better means of measurement that doesn't include a mic.
Are you aquainted with the published literature on human hearing skills?
Are you aquainted with the published literature on human hearing skills?
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I don't know if it would constitute a parameter, but a difference in sound stage is something that's often perceived due to small changes, that's difficult to measure.
Certainly you must mean "sound stage - tested blind and two people independently agreeing on what they claim to be hearing"?
I completely understand and support your skepticism. I think there is a ton of snake oil being sold in this industry; lots of confirmation bias.
That being said, there are definitely differences in higher quality crossover parts. I have never directly "measured" those differences but I can defiantly hear them. The difference between a cheap capacitor and film capacitor can be fairly drastic. I've re-capped enough speakers to immediately hear the difference. I've done A/B tests with other people listening and it's obvious to them. Better capacitors (usually more expensive, though not linearly) are made with better conducting materials so it's obvious why they will sound better. But sometimes that difference is quite subtle and might not pass a blind test. Other times, it's obvious. A $1 electrolytic capacitor vs. a $50 film capacitor will give you a substantial difference in how fast and accurate the electrons move through it. You will hear a difference, unless the speaker is really cheap then you're better off getting better speakers in a better box. A lot of it is relative.
Let me ask you this: Can you hear the difference between a WAV file and an MP3? What differences do you hear? When can you hear the difference and when can't you hear the difference?
A waterfall measurement might show you a slight difference in capacitors since they may settle more quickly. A frequency response chart might not show the difference since it's linear, but what we are hearing is the electrons moving faster and more accurately through a better capacitor which means less "smearing" of the image. I would say that the place where a frequency response chart might show a difference would be in the extreme low end and extreme high end of the chart, but that's only if the speakers can go there.
The best way to test a difference in parts is to do one speaker with one kind of capacitor and the other with a cheaper one. Hook them up blindly (have a friend do it) then listen. Can you hear the difference? If you can pick out the better parts then it's probably worth buying them. If not, then maybe it's a waste of money.
Also, be aware of what you're playing through them. Is it an MP3 or WAV file. There is a big difference between them. If the original file is compromised and then it's played through a cheap speaker; a better capacitor is a waste of money. It's all relative.
Sound stage as function of parts used is a bucketful of crap, so not easy to measure, if you catch my drift.
If you mean channel separation (I know you don´t, of course, you strive in the subjective or made up realm), which WILL affect it, that´s easily MEASURED.
If you mean channel separation (I know you don´t, of course, you strive in the subjective or made up realm), which WILL affect it, that´s easily MEASURED.
Whats with the red hearing: Wav vs mp3, why don't you ask if we can hear the difference between a 78rpm record and a CD. Ridiculous.
Better conducting material, are you sure? What are fast and accurate electrons?
Ill agree SOMTIMEs a cap in a crossover will make a difference but its rare. Anything that shunts the amp out makes no difference to the speaker, just the amp. And a cap thats coupling makes no (audible) difference as long as its big enough.
Show some measurements. Right you didn't do any, well heres some.
Practical Test & Measurement - Stop Worrying About Coupling Capacitors! | audioXpress
So whats left after shunt and coupling?
This is gibberish and you really should get a better understanding of how capacitors work before writing about them. Electrons do not move through a capacitor. The dialectic material that separates the two plates of a capacitor is an insulator. Electrons do not flow through insulators.
Any differences you think you are hearing in speaker performance based on the cost of capacitors are imaginary. There is scientific basis for them to exist.
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