The emotional disposition of lobsters heading to a horrible death was incongruous and very offensive to me. So yes, marketers are idiots for not realizing this.
Don't they pay you guys to think this stuff out? If you don't get what I'm talking about then you're just making my point.
Agreed that it was relevant. I still stand by my comment re: inept at worst, and toothless at best. This is a clear example (IMO) of ineptitude, and one that makes me a bit queasy. There was another thread re: an individual wondering how their amplifier complied with EU regulations. I was actually quite fascinated in how things worked in that trade region, right up until the mods shut it down (for reasons I have yet to understand). From what I could gather the EU has some guidelines I'd consider quite fair, but admittedly have not dug too deeply into.
This is how they 'get ya'. Nobody takes the time to do a bit of reading the fine print. <sarc> There's no need to wonder. 😉 An inference or two might need to be made, but it's fairly straight forward to me. IMO, it's intentionally deceptive at worst, irrelevant data at best, but likely factual and able to be substantiated.
PS - From my own experience with a reasonably large marketing-focused company, which spent upwards of 100's of millions USD per year in marketing, it was mostly the department / product heads that pushed for dubious / tenuous claims. The conversation usually went something like...
Product head - Can we say 'this'?
Legal and engineering - No!
Product head - What can we say?
Legal and engineering - Anything that is true, non-deceptive, and can be substantiated with data on hand or a paid independent study.
Product head - I'm not paying for a study / more testing.
Legal and engineering - OK
Product head - Our competitors say 'this'.
Legal and engineering - OK
Product head - What's our liability if we say 'this'?
Legal - <GROAN!>
Product head - I'll send it over to marketing.
Product head later sends tenuously worded email to marketing opening with something akin to... I just had a wonderful meeting with Engineering and Legal... accidentally leaving engineering and legal off the cc:
This lead to changes in policies re: official sign offs for any new product marketing claims.
The cop out of a boss or boss's boss in my experience was not the situation. Everyone has a boss, and I understand that in some cultures, push back can get you fired, but I sure as hell never signed off on anything I felt uncomfortable with.
Marketing (generally) had nothing to do with actual claims. They were given the claims. As someone pointed out earlier, they provided extensive research toward using department dollars to most effectively reach intended customers and chose the appropriate media.
Anecdotal at best, but my guess is others have a similar experience in the field.
You're been over the top in your anger on this subject, don't you think?
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I just loathe advertising. He asked so I'm trying to make him understand.
Marketing is designed to fool us. Is it bad that I don't like that?
Marketing is designed to fool us. Is it bad that I don't like that?
I suggest to you that only some minority amount of advertising is underhandedly designed to 'fool you'. The great majority of advertising is simply trying to get your attention regarding what a firm has to offer. Most firms want to create satisfied customers who provide repeat business, and provide positive word of mouth about them in the market. Getting the attention of potential customers is absolutely critical, because, as I've indicated previously, no matter how well engineered or manufactured some product, it will fail if potential customers are not made aware of it. That said, sure some firms produce more accurately targeted, better constructed and more informative ads than do other firms. Some firms do skirt the line a bit to gain your attention, which is much more difficult task to accomplish than it might seem. Some product might actually feature every single benefit you are looking for in that type of product, and also have the lowest purchase cost on the market, yet, if the firm doesn't gain your attention and recognition of those facts you will not purchase it, and it will fail.
Taking your hated lobster ad for example. While it ultimately failed with you because it turned you off, to this day, you still remember it and what it was selling. So, it was a success in gaining your attention. A major accomplishment in itself, I assure you. No doubt, for other potential customers, however, it not only gained their attention it didn't turn them off, and they subsequently investigated the product further. That's simply the nature of mass market advertising. It's hit and miss. There's an old mass-market advertising story/joke, which I don't know whether is true or not, regarding the founder of one of the old big department store chains. Macy's, or Wanamaker's or something, about the problem of mass-market advertising. Where he observed, that he knew from their market research the good news that the store's advertising attracts 50% of his customers. He just didn't know which 50% it attracts.
Taking your hated lobster ad for example. While it ultimately failed with you because it turned you off, to this day, you still remember it and what it was selling. So, it was a success in gaining your attention. A major accomplishment in itself, I assure you. No doubt, for other potential customers, however, it not only gained their attention it didn't turn them off, and they subsequently investigated the product further. That's simply the nature of mass market advertising. It's hit and miss. There's an old mass-market advertising story/joke, which I don't know whether is true or not, regarding the founder of one of the old big department store chains. Macy's, or Wanamaker's or something, about the problem of mass-market advertising. Where he observed, that he knew from their market research the good news that the store's advertising attracts 50% of his customers. He just didn't know which 50% it attracts.
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It was the ONLY way to solve certain problems associated with today’s crazy high power PA equipment. Namely, the current draw requirement. Back in The Day, current draw ratings were given at FULL output power, sine wave. At least on stuff with ratings that were real (and some was). The largest amp that could legally be run off a 120V/20A circuit was the PV CS800, clocking in at 15 amps. Remember, NEC specified an 80% nomimal load from a circuit putting a limit at 16 amps. Now the amp could not be run at 100% duty cycle, but came the closest of any amp I have ever worked with (including today). But even at 50% duty cycle, which we did, and ends up being so distorted you can’t even tell which song is playing it barely draws 10 amps. It’s a big deal when you’re trying to put together a half million watt touring rig, and need to get an electrician to sign off on a temporary power supply, or even find venue power big enough if the sum of the nameplate ampacity ratings are TOO HIGH. So what was done? Rate the amp’s current draw under “more realistic” conditions - allowing the use of larger amps which were now available on a 20 amp circuit. And more importantly, a larger rig on 200 amps three phase. For a long time that worked - back when a toroid trafo power supply could handle short term 10X overloads over rated VA. Switchmode came into vogue, and they just can’t do that. Now we get amps rated for shorter and shorter duty factor to the point of uselessness. Now even amps with toriod supplies can’t even do 10% duty anymore because everyone is taking liberties with everything again and it’s almost back to “car stereo watts”.
I certainly get the point of remembering it. I get the hit and miss aspect of it too.
I'm a hard nut because I'm sardonic by nature. I see irony in everything.
I'm a hard nut because I'm sardonic by nature. I see irony in everything.
I could never write effective advertisements. I'm way too matter of fact.
I couldn't be your pitch man either. I was on TV about a year ago and it was quite forgettable. Everyone called me and said they saw me on TV. I told them yeah, I've made the big time and now I just have to sit back and wait for the offers to pour in. People that know me get the sarcasm right away.
I couldn't be your pitch man either. I was on TV about a year ago and it was quite forgettable. Everyone called me and said they saw me on TV. I told them yeah, I've made the big time and now I just have to sit back and wait for the offers to pour in. People that know me get the sarcasm right away.
Most are still riding arround, none has the original engine, as it's absoluut crap and these days even illigal in the EU because of the polution. But for the rest, those are as indestructable as a Nokia 3310.
Mostly the engine replaced by Renault straight 4 or boxer engines from volkswagen (beetle) or Porche (the smaller boxer engines). My ex managed to get a (modified) Porche Boxter 986 engine (6cilinder 2.7) in her's even...
Love the idea of Porsche engines in the Lada. Even Trabant put a Volkswagen engine in their horrible car, although it didn't save it from going out of production.
"The masses have never thirsted after the truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master." -Gustav le Bon
This is just as true today as it was 140 years ago.
"The masses have never thirsted after the truth. They turn aside from evidence that is not to their taste, preferring to deify error, if error seduce them. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master." -Gustav le Bon
This is just as true today as it was 140 years ago.
In other words deceit works! Wanted deceit is the same as profiteering out of the ignorance of customers. Is this what is understood by progress and civility? Is it progress to be intentionally deceitful?
There is a saying which goes like this: Give them what they want? Is deceit what customers want?
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Deceit is simply one of the fundamental aspects of human behavior, and always has been. It just depends on the circumstances, as to when, and to what degree the behavior shows itself. Appearing in personal lives, as well as professional lives. As far as professions, some professions, naturally, more readily lend themselves to deceitful behavior than does some other professions. In other words, they simply are easier for people to utilize deceitfulness as an advantage than in other professions. Such as politics, and, yes, sales. Which does not mean that everyone in those professions is deceitful.
As an interesting aside, I think there is a study which showed a high positive correlation between intelligence and deceitfulness in children.
As an interesting aside, I think there is a study which showed a high positive correlation between intelligence and deceitfulness in children.
To say it short, there is a reason why a site like Audio Science Review is so popular and needed. That site is also biased off course, but at least they give the hard measurements with their biased opinion. Most other sites of the industry are mainly marketing talk where the content variate from "showing their product from the best angle" to straight lies. And with parts for diy it's also like that often, just like with anything else in this world that is advertised. Laws (at least in the EU) try to limit that (but are not always succesfull) altough.
Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master." -Gustav le Bon
It's a way of boosting a reputation easily without having to do the actual hard and honest work.
In my own work, I never allowed myself to succumb to that policy, my conscience kept me from that.
That old motto of "honesty is the best policy" always stuck with me.
And my customers over the decades seemed to realize that.
I put myself in their shoes, reflected that I could be the one asking for service, or a product, and getting my money's worth.
Deceit is an important ingredient of Greed, which itself has flourished and grown in recent times.
It's a way of boosting a reputation easily without having to do the actual hard and honest work.
In my own work, I never allowed myself to succumb to that policy, my conscience kept me from that.
That old motto of "honesty is the best policy" always stuck with me.
And my customers over the decades seemed to realize that.
I put myself in their shoes, reflected that I could be the one asking for service, or a product, and getting my money's worth.
It's called re-insurance and was probably invented by the Medici in 15th century Florence.
I'm sure I read that a very well-respected 4-channel '12kW' amp was capable of a thundering 346W per channel continuous without shutting down...
Sadly, we are now living in a rude, impatient, and graceless age.
I don't expect anything much to improve in the remainder of my lifetime.
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