Do all audio amplifiers really sound the same???

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cabbagerat said:
I wish somebody would design an A/B switch box that doesn't hide obvious sonic differences 😉

Logic problem- You need to prove that A/B boxes do make a perceptual difference before using that as grounds to criticise the test regime. I could say that the position of Wolf 139 in its orbit around the galactic centre makes a difference, but without proof you would likely ignore me.
 
Looks like this is settled then....

.

There is absolutely no need for the antique tube amplifiers because they certainly don't sound any better than SS amplifiers do.

All SS amplifiers sound the same.

Speakers all sound the same.

Circuit design and lay out has no effect on sound.

Chassis design and lay out has no effect.

Interconnects and speaker cable has no effect.

All resistors sound the same.

All capacitors sound the same.

We all hear everything the same.

Measurements mean nothing.

There....close the ****** thread now!!!
 
pinkmouse said:


Logic problem- You need to prove that A/B boxes do make a perceptual difference before using that as grounds to criticise the test regime. I could say that the position of Wolf 139 in its orbit around the galactic centre makes a difference, but without proof you would likely ignore me.

You are quite right pinkmouse, but, of course cabbagerat was joking.

My ears are on the side of "all good amps" sound the same. Intellectually I'm on the side of the scientific method. So it bothers me that I haven't see a good rigorous scientific study of the subject, only anecdotal accounts of such which reduces them to little more than the anecdotal evidence of the other side. If anyone has a link to a good study I would be grateful for it.
 
djk said:
I modified a McIntosh amplifier for a recording studio (just cap mods).

After extensive listening, the two music professors (at Cornell) thought that I had 'added too much bass and treble boost'. They could not believe that the amplifier had flat response!

Measurements, of course, proved that it did.


Well since you haven't mentioned or confimed that you measured the frequency response prior to 'upgrading' it (which is good grounds for assuming that you didn't), that anecdote as submitted, I'm afraid, is totally worthless.
 
SleeperSupra said:
I was on another audio forum and was told that:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=985008

"The science behind hearing and amplifiers tells us that the person making the claim that he hears a difference between two (properly functioning) amplifiers does in fact believe this claim, but that there is in fact no audible difference. That's not a bad thing, the reasons are pretty well understood (at least among people who study psychoacoustics), they just have nothing to do with the amplifiers. IOW, if you think you can hear the difference between two normally functioning amplifiers then you deluding yourself, it's a common delusion, but a delusion none-the-less"...

...I do not believe this to be true as I have owned over a dozen amplifiers and each one had a unique character to its sound.

What is your take on this subject?

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


Please keep in mind also that psychology applies only to humans. Not audiophiles.

cheers,

AJ
 
"Well since you haven't mentioned or confimed that you measured the frequency response prior to 'upgrading' it (which is good grounds for assuming that you didn't), that anecdote as submitted, I'm afraid, is totally worthless."

Are you really that difficult?

They were buying a new amplifier for their studio and had five different makes and models on hand four listening.

They all measured flat.

They all sounded different.

You may sit around measuring amplifiers, I prefer to listen to them.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you ever hear the one about the drunk looking for his car keys?

He's looking for them in the gutter about closing time.

People start coming out of the bar and ask him what's he doing?

"Dropped my keys!"

They all start looking in the gutter, up and down the street.

Finally one of the searchers asks, where do you think you were when you dropped them?

"Around back in the alley."

Well why are we out front then?

"The light is better."

------------------------------------------

We measure many things in audio that don't seem to correlate to how it sounds, simply because we know how to measure them (the light is better).
 
No level matching, no specific care to check frequency response with the speakers on hand (this is a VERY big deal for amps with highish output impedances), no monitoring for clipping (amps have different overload recovery characteristics); of course they "sound different." Duh.
 
PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST

Since I said he Richrd Clark is an idiot
I retract that and will say
he is very smart and the rest of us can't hear and are ignorant!!

I TRIED RICHARDS CHALLENGE AND WON

AT HOME OF COUSE.. COMPARED A 4BSST TO A 4BST

10 OUT OF 10 RIGHT!!

now most everyone will agree that those amps measure almost identical and no way you could "EQ" those amps without
putting the sonic properties of the eq over the amps

TELL ME MR CLARK.. DOES YOUR EQ HAVE 1/10 0.0008%THD???
you would need that in order to not impose the "added" devices
sonic propertied to the test

oh yea any forget to mention the failure rate of DUT ( humans in this case) is 20%..

yes my ex has PhD in clinical human physiology and psychology.
and I've read the studies and even gladly participated in some for her PHD research!! including audio differentiation studies!!

It boils down to this.. stress under test will reduce your metal ability to FUNCTION!

why do people who get on game show go blank when they know the answer to an easy qusstion?? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

why does the golfer miss and easy 2' putt he could mske blindfolded normally.$$$$$$$$$$$$$

( I wintessed and experienced this personally)why does the shooter who shoots perfect score for years in practice COMPLETELY MISS a target?? .......... STRESS

why do officers and soilders who shoot the combat coucres score int eh 95+ range but when u walk beside them observing.. their score dope to 85 and if you introcdue distractions like tapping your foot you get score int he 80's?? STRESS


$$$$$$$$$$$$ = stress
you have a lot riding (your own money you put up to take the stoopid test) and lot of PRESSURE. how many times have you answered a test question wrong walked out of a room and went..
crap.. I knew that!!!

statistically... you are going to get 8/10 right at best..if anybody wins this test it is out of shear LUCK!

RICHARD GOT THE ATTENTION HE WANTED TO FURTHER HIS OWN PERSON GAIN AND FATTEN HIS WALLET! SMART HUH!

RICHARD CLARK IS AN IDIOT
 
jcx said:



try reading the 1st post in this thread - this is exactly the conditions being discussed
Right, this whole issue is pointless IMO. You can build a cheap amp around one IC that will produce great sound...you can do that because it has been designed/tested/manufactured to reproduce music properly. Just like any other 'quality' amp on the planet; if it could not then it would not be a quality amp. That is a requirement, something you can see on a scope....expect because if it did not you already know it would sound terrible, and something that is pretty easy to do today. But what makes an amp is when you put X signal in, what comes out? Of course you can DSP the input to change or match the output long as the amp has no audible THD+N/etc....which no quality amp is going to have.....but then you just changed X input so how is that a comparison of the amp's sound?

I can fill a car with gas and another with water and then say the one that runs on gas performs much better....but then you would accuse me of not inputting the same fuel into both cars in a comparison test. I could have a race driver in one and a 10yr old in the other, same thing. It is pointless IMO. The human ear is not going to discern the difference between .001 and .002% THD or some other absurd figure. Odds are it would be difficult to even find an amp that did not meet those standards today. But if you hook different amps up in your house to a CD player, odds are pretty good they may sound slightly different on the SAME SIGNAL. Many makers still color their sound, what else is there to do with an amp. What difference does it make anyway....if it did make a difference we would never see any tone controls of any kind on audio equipment...because they could color the sound. Lol. Oh wait, your room and speakers do that already....🙂 and then there is the guy who mastered the music you are listening to, the equipment it was recorded on.....pointless. Electronics technology has far surpassed quality levels required to fool an ear long ago if that is all he is testing for...and why he will allow many old amps in the 'test'.
 
Re: Re: PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST

tinitus said:


Right, thats the game of blindtesting....intentionally confusing the brain...known to be the easiest thing in the world

Also the most obvious given all the people who depend on the the results of the scientific method to live, to eat, to work to recreate, yet neither understand nor accept it the moment it gores their sacred cows.
 
disagree

differences between to "identical amps" st vs sst are audible

both have
(inaudible distortion)

both were hooked to same source and could be swithed at will
one was running thu the dummy load when not driving speakers!!!


10 out 10 I could tell the SST from the ST..

trust me I did not want hear a difference. $$$$$$$$$$$$$

DID I MENTION THEY HAVE THE SAME OUTPUT TOPOLOGY..and measure identical from 20-20K.. I was using cd as source so response past 20K was not checked..
 
I have yet to see an amplifiers output terminals generate soundwaves that impinge upon the ear.
But maybe I don't just-listen real well and thus have to resort to wired transducers.

Maybe you don't just-read real well either. You've left out the salient part of the post so you could manufacture a sarcastic response.

John
 
no I read well.. i teyp crappy!

I met all conditions of testing as proposed by host in first post! level matching same wire same length.. same eveything..

2 different amps of the same manufacuter!!!


etc/

and yes speakers must be involved.. amps make no sound except buzzing transformers!!!


wanna here about the 5 drunk musicians and audible differences in speaker wire..
 
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