Because it is FUN!!!! My analogy, to extend the hammer arg, is that of using old tools for woodworking. There is no need to use a turn-of-the-century wood plane, but gosh what a feeling when you get a nice shaving using it!salas said:
Quality tools are just as subtle as quality audio. I have lost, have had stolen from me, or broken tools that are irreplaceable, without going to Germany or something. It is just a matter of sensitivity to these things, and often experience.
salas said:
Ha! That's "sorted" Salas - but I think your version is more on target!
The more you thrash squirm, they more they bite. That's what hell really is....
For stage work, the pragmatist in me would agree, except for some blues and metal. For studio, no.salas said:
I think there is some agreement that two amplifiers will be sound the same, if they generate no difference signal while driving a specific loudspeaker load.
If the difference seems to be noise, further investigation with greater resolution shows if there are some repeatable patterns buried in the noise floor.
Given what was established as a detectable difference in various papers/studies and given some credit to researchers who reported differences in dbts, that were done in a less rigouros scientific approach, it justifies the conclusion, that we just have to lower the threshold values that have been posted by SY before.
Jakob2
If the difference seems to be noise, further investigation with greater resolution shows if there are some repeatable patterns buried in the noise floor.
Given what was established as a detectable difference in various papers/studies and given some credit to researchers who reported differences in dbts, that were done in a less rigouros scientific approach, it justifies the conclusion, that we just have to lower the threshold values that have been posted by SY before.
Jakob2
John, I think we are extending this analogy too far, so why not take it one step further! 😀john curl said:
Of course there are specialized tools, or your favorite Japanese dovetail saw, or whatever (I have a favorite screwdriver), but the end result is the wood (or metal) that you form using those tools. I doubt very seriously if someone could tell whether I used a high end Forrest blade from a high end Freud blade just by looking at the finished work!
now they have DSP processors that make whatever SS amp they're installed in sound like about any tube amp ever made. only problem is you now have thousands of Fender amps on the market that sound like the SAME VOX 30. no two VOX amps sounded exactly alike. and that was good, it gave them character.
Brett said:
I had been mixing a pro bassist mate on stage for a whole winter season in a club. He was equipped with full Hartke gear. But he was saving to add Trace Elliot. They were very distinct on stage he claimed. But valves even more he said. If life was easy...
I play bass, and build a bit of bass gear as well as guitar and harp amps (with tubes). Stage sound is generally over fussed by players, where the average punter wouldn't have a clue, so long as it sounds decent. In the lower amplitude studio environment, details make a much larger difference.salas said:
A good player will sound good on almost anything. For your sanity, don't listen to musos too much. The amount of BS and old wives tales stagger me, and some are worse then the tweakiest philes.
Brett said:
He was really good, especially when doing some 'trombone like' upper string harmonies ala Jaco Pastorius.
As for stories...he is an ex pro boxer....imagine.
This thread has sort of drifted off topic...
So, do we all think they sound different or the same???
So, do we all think they sound different or the same???
They all sound the same if we like it to, and we have the proper tests to prove it. And all sound different down to a single resistor or bolt if we like it to, and we have the proper literature and mood to prove it.
Don't know if Salas is kiddinghere but, no!
There are no tests that proove that all amps sound the same because there are tests that have been done and prooved the other way around.
Now over to some anecdotes..
a guy I know use to be a performing guitarist and audiophile and also a tube-guy. He tried out LM3886 and now use it to both the hifi and the Telecaster. I've heard recordings he have done and nothing was missing from that blues Tele sound. Don't know what effects he used though.
He send me some files on several amps in loopback mode. That is he send me every song in two versions, one was looped thru the soundcard only while the other was looped thru soundcard and amp.
The amps (if i remember correct) was:
a japanese receiver
a small tube amp
a class A amp hiraga/JLH style
a LM3886 amp.
All amps had distortion below 0.5% at 1W with a dummy load attached to the amp during test.
There was no clipping going on obviously.
All amps except one was easily heard as coloring the signal in a blind test with HD600.
The tube amp had some roll off in the top that probably would make it non transparent even if it was free from distortion. There was no doubt though that the distortion from this amp crippled the resolution of the music.. making it grainy and uninvolving. So much for tube amps having "warm musical qualities".
The file containing the LM3886 sounded identical as the soundcard only loop.
Of course this is no proof that the LM3886 is is unconditionally transparent.. but it's a very good amp.
/Peter
There are no tests that proove that all amps sound the same because there are tests that have been done and prooved the other way around.
Now over to some anecdotes..
a guy I know use to be a performing guitarist and audiophile and also a tube-guy. He tried out LM3886 and now use it to both the hifi and the Telecaster. I've heard recordings he have done and nothing was missing from that blues Tele sound. Don't know what effects he used though.
He send me some files on several amps in loopback mode. That is he send me every song in two versions, one was looped thru the soundcard only while the other was looped thru soundcard and amp.
The amps (if i remember correct) was:
a japanese receiver
a small tube amp
a class A amp hiraga/JLH style
a LM3886 amp.
All amps had distortion below 0.5% at 1W with a dummy load attached to the amp during test.
There was no clipping going on obviously.
All amps except one was easily heard as coloring the signal in a blind test with HD600.
The tube amp had some roll off in the top that probably would make it non transparent even if it was free from distortion. There was no doubt though that the distortion from this amp crippled the resolution of the music.. making it grainy and uninvolving. So much for tube amps having "warm musical qualities".
The file containing the LM3886 sounded identical as the soundcard only loop.
Of course this is no proof that the LM3886 is is unconditionally transparent.. but it's a very good amp.
/Peter
it would be interesting to try that again in stereo, recorded on a sound card with a 196k sample rate and see how wide the "sound stage" is.
Yes!
It's my impression as well that even if something sound stransparent on low distortion headphones that eliminates the room and so on, things may be different with a real stereo.
I think the two methods (cans and speakers) complement each other well though doing tests like this.
/Peter
It's my impression as well that even if something sound stransparent on low distortion headphones that eliminates the room and so on, things may be different with a real stereo.
I think the two methods (cans and speakers) complement each other well though doing tests like this.
/Peter
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