salas said:
So, for a subjective testing session, you would suggest selecting the subjects and avoiding those "set to consume a myth"?
Jakob2 said:
Yes you did! 🙂
Allthough most people in the thread seems to skip that part..
Listen now people.. go back and re-read ALL of Jacobs posts, digest it and don't come back until a little light shines up. 😉
/Peter
syn08 said:
If I was charged to conduct an open subjective, with mythical and plain equipment in comparison, I would call frugal DIYers and affluent audiophiles, plus some recording engineers. After impressions and debates, each group would walk out better educated by each others influence. Multiculturalism works.
janneman said:
They found that most amps was audibly different?
🙂
Jan.. some people is past that since many years. Don't judge everyone else from where you are sitting.
No, we are all wired differently. Synapses forms as we live. The brain litteraly changes depending on what we do.
A good start is to look at this thread to understand how differently we think, react and discuss.
Some are dogmatic some pragmatic. There are very different levels of prestige and so on. Some have sculls thick as a concretefloor while other are openminded.
/Peter
perhaps someone here wants to participate in the Amps that DO sound different thread that I started?
Just a thought...
_-_--bear
Just a thought...
_-_--bear
bear said:
Good idea, bcs if ABX stands true, the moderators must delete the solid state, pass labs, tubes, electronic components sections etc. and rename DIYaudio.com to nothing-matters.com 😀
Schumpe's experience is very much like my experience with red wine. Just give me something 'acceptable' to drink and I am happy. Paying outrageous prices for 'fine wines' never made any sense to me.
I must admit that ONCE back in 1974, I tasted a red wine that, at the time, I thought exceptional, but I was probably influenced by the company I was keeping at the time, the label on the bottle, and the price: 200 Swiss Franks. (I was in Switzerland at the time). I, too, have made my own wine, and know that it is not that difficult to do.
I will stick to Cognac, because it does seem to taste differently to my palate. I will stick to the cheap stuff, why pay more?
I must admit that ONCE back in 1974, I tasted a red wine that, at the time, I thought exceptional, but I was probably influenced by the company I was keeping at the time, the label on the bottle, and the price: 200 Swiss Franks. (I was in Switzerland at the time). I, too, have made my own wine, and know that it is not that difficult to do.
I will stick to Cognac, because it does seem to taste differently to my palate. I will stick to the cheap stuff, why pay more?
Oh, come now! Even if all amps do/don't sound the same within their operating range, there are tons of reasons to build different amps! Different speakers have different loads, different rooms need bigger/smaller amps, etc.salas said:
You could make an argument that all cars get you from point A to point B, which would be factually true, but the fun is often in how you drive and the route you take in getting there, regardless of whether the end result is the same! I may prefer a Hummer (blatant class A energy hog) and you may prefer a golf cart (class D, Tripath, etc.) Regardless of the vehicle/amp, we will both have gotten where we were going, and chances are it will have been more fun if we build our car/amp ourselves. 😀
salas said:
Understood.
I must be dense today, could you remind me what was the expected outcome for this open subjective test?
Pan said:
Ralph Waldo Emerson said:
The fact that I couldn't understand a word here or there WAS and IS trivial. You could transmit Bob Dylan over a tickertape and still convey a significant part of the message.
The point is that amplifiers get better and better AND cheaper and BETTER by definition MEANS more ALIKE.
w
salas said:
At a loss? Why? It is perfectly explainable. Haven't you followed this thread??
Jan Didden
dfdye said:
That's easy. Just leave the chip amp forum and parallel/bridge/active/passive according to requirements.
And a combined S&M forum for tubes and analogue.
Pan said:
Well, if they are, they're (with a few exceptions) not on this forum. And if I judge people by their actions and statements, what wrong with that? Don't we all?
Pan said:
Yes we are wired differently. I said this before. I said before that it is a way of speaking; that it's really the functionality that is overwhelming the same. Good point.
And those other differences are precisely the topic we are discussion. The thick sculls are the ones that don't agree with you. The openminded ones are the ones that agree with you. Jeeez, isn't this all obvious?
Jan Didden
syn08 said:
Open subjective debates and some convergence between the people and their group persuasions I guess. Some bias changes and some middle of the road MVP amp 60% acceptable as best compromise I would guess, in such a hypothetical test.
As I have said earlier, stop listening with your brain...listen with your whole body and you will experience a new world of sounds...ehh, no I am not from Brazil 😀
Waki, I wish I could soothe you but,
first, information is infinite. No need to worry about its integrity. Similarly, everyone's input is important.
But unfortunately, most people are only interested in repeating their own point of view. There will probably never be an end, or resolution, to our seeking; especially with people continually repeating themselves. But there are a few special people who have decided to wander outside their own boundaries, and propose ways of exploring the middle ground between their POV and other's.
I'm going to bet that those people will find interesting things. Everyone can just keep on peeking out their blinds...
wakibaki said:
first, information is infinite. No need to worry about its integrity. Similarly, everyone's input is important.
But unfortunately, most people are only interested in repeating their own point of view. There will probably never be an end, or resolution, to our seeking; especially with people continually repeating themselves. But there are a few special people who have decided to wander outside their own boundaries, and propose ways of exploring the middle ground between their POV and other's.
I'm going to bet that those people will find interesting things. Everyone can just keep on peeking out their blinds...
Andre Visser said:
Yes, that is precisely what I am suggesting.
Where do you think the good engineers interested in audio go? They get snapped up by (or even start) the companies that make chips like the 3886 or Tripath, but the majority are not interested in audio, other than digital audio.
That's where anything exciting is going on, design at chip level.
Pretty soon there won't be much left to do there.
I told you already, audio amplifier design is dead. Moribund would be a more accurate description, but I'm trying to get people's attention. A lot of what is being done now was worked out years ago, just implementing it was a materials and fabrication problem. It's trivial to design a fully digital 24-bit resolution PWM DAC in VHDL, you just can't get chips to run fast enough.
I know, I thought I'd made my fortune until I did the calculations.
w
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