If USB is simply delivering data then the USB cable cannot affect the sound. I really mean that: cannot. No ifs, no buts.
If the converse appears to be the case then the USB cable is not simply delivering data; it must be doing something else too like adding a ground path or inserting RF interference. Alternatively, the listener is mistaken and is ascribing to the cable some effect cause by something else or is 'hearing' an effect which isn't there.
If the converse appears to be the case then the USB cable is not simply delivering data; it must be doing something else too like adding a ground path or inserting RF interference. Alternatively, the listener is mistaken and is ascribing to the cable some effect cause by something else or is 'hearing' an effect which isn't there.
Absolutely. And it is now the reason i consider switching, despite the inconvenience to a SD-card player for critical listening.
Don't get me wrong - the digital front end delivers more than i have ever thought possible and has certainly surpassed all my expectations.
Still, there is a noticeable difference in sound depending on bios settings - how many processor cores, how many threads per core, etc and how is Windows set up. Players, player and Windows optimisations all have effect.
The tweakiness is driving me nuts. Of course part of it may be purely coincidental as DF96 mentions. It may indeed be radiation noise. From the cable or through the mains. Or from one pcb to the next...
If i had unlimited time and resources i would probably investigate having the pc in another room, fed from batteries and using a long USB optical fibre extender.
The most obvious question - has the reported difference been a result of a blind test? Recently in this thread there was an offer to make a blind test - again no results published (if the test was actually made).
It is the very first step. Only then can we discuss technical causes.
It is the very first step. Only then can we discuss technical causes.
Squirrels? Are they like elephants?
Once upon a time an elderly gentleman sat in a train travelling though the beautiful English countryside. On his lap he had a newspaper. From time to time he would tear a strip of paper from the newspaper and drop it on the floor. He kept this up for a long time.
Eventually one of the other passengers asked him, "Why are you tearing up that newspaper?" He replied, "I do it to frighten the elephants away; they can't stand the sound of tearing paper.". The passenger said, "That is silly; how do you know it frightens elephants?" The old man said, "Look out of the window. How many elephants do you see?".
Once upon a time an elderly gentleman sat in a train travelling though the beautiful English countryside. On his lap he had a newspaper. From time to time he would tear a strip of paper from the newspaper and drop it on the floor. He kept this up for a long time.
Eventually one of the other passengers asked him, "Why are you tearing up that newspaper?" He replied, "I do it to frighten the elephants away; they can't stand the sound of tearing paper.". The passenger said, "That is silly; how do you know it frightens elephants?" The old man said, "Look out of the window. How many elephants do you see?".
😱But that would mean bits are bits and all I have learned over the last 28 years about getting digital signals from A to B is true...
USB can be galvonicly isolated, once done the PC noise will not get through, if done properly that is...
USB can be galvonicly isolated, once done the PC noise will not get through, if done properly that is...
Feeding a PC from batteries will not solve the noise of PC's, look at the numerous laptops around where people get noise. A lot of (if not most) PC noise is self generated, also on PC's these days you have numerous on board voltages, some that will have small SMPS's supplying the power (I suspect the battery comment is an anti SMPS one), also you have a phenomena call simultaneous switching noise that all complex digital circuitry produces.
I use a stand alone PC for my music, all it does is run Logitech squeezebox server, and when I am richer as there are no more Logitech touches I will upgrade to Sonos or something similar. So my PC is far from stressed squirting a few bytes of music over the old wireless link.
I use a stand alone PC for my music, all it does is run Logitech squeezebox server, and when I am richer as there are no more Logitech touches I will upgrade to Sonos or something similar. So my PC is far from stressed squirting a few bytes of music over the old wireless link.
It will stop the noise from getting back into the mains. Combined with an optical USB and a remote location it will eliminate some possibilities. Mind you, as i have long learned, even drastic solutions, such as this are no guarantee the sound will actually improve.
Should not be an issue, mains is usually polluted as it is so the noise from one PC is not going to be an issue, and if anyone uses power lines communications then the noise is already being added, so it becomes a moot point.
Further, unless you are buying the cheapest no name PC available on the grey market, EMC testing will show if excessive noise is being coupled via the power leads.
Further, unless you are buying the cheapest no name PC available on the grey market, EMC testing will show if excessive noise is being coupled via the power leads.
Thanks again and now i am quite scared
The whole optimization process is way beyond my possibilities😱
kind regards,
gino
Without any measurements you cannot determine the depth of your problem, or if you have one, so I TEND TO NOT WORRY, SIT BACK AND ENJOY THE MUSIC. If I perceive through hearing that I may have a problem I do a number of things:
Check the sound at different times of the day and when I am in different moods.
if I still perceive a problem then I will look for obvious problems, broken things and also take measurements, because without measurements you are blind to any issues.
if measurements back up my perception I will look to engineering a solution.
Generally though having a cool beer and chilling is the best solution...
Check the sound at different times of the day and when I am in different moods.
if I still perceive a problem then I will look for obvious problems, broken things and also take measurements, because without measurements you are blind to any issues.
if measurements back up my perception I will look to engineering a solution.
Generally though having a cool beer and chilling is the best solution...
Do the switch-mode PS for laptops isolate the computer from the line?
Excellent advice. Obsessing is a guarantee that nonexistent problems will be heard.
Excellent advice. Obsessing is a guarantee that nonexistent problems will be heard.
SMPS's do a pretty good job of isolating line noise, better quite often than linear because you tend to build filtering into a SMPS. I have also seen bigger problems when a designer insisted on a heavy, expensive inefficient linear supply instead of a demonic SMPS, the linear let is plenty of noise in the audible range causing lots of fun, whereas when tested with a Vicor SMPS no audible noise got through.
A lot of boards we lay out these days have quite complicated interfaces to the outside world to minimise both picking up noise and transmitting it both for radiated and conducted susceptibility.
Like a lot of these things noise problems can be solved, but by engineering, not fancy way out cables.
A lot of boards we lay out these days have quite complicated interfaces to the outside world to minimise both picking up noise and transmitting it both for radiated and conducted susceptibility.
Like a lot of these things noise problems can be solved, but by engineering, not fancy way out cables.
ChiP Technology | Vicor Corporation
These look quite interesting, for any that wanna isolate the power.
These look quite interesting, for any that wanna isolate the power.
No argument here. But some of us want good sound here and now, not in some remote time when science finally prevails. And it's not just cables. If i had a system designed by a conservative, orthodox engineer i would feel much less pleasure listening to music. And yes, i do have access to such systems for a comparo 🙂
Science will never prevail. There will always be some people who know better - but try to avoid aircraft and bridges designed by them!
solid silver on the d+ & d-
Just starting with a new line of experiments on short diy usb.
I built a 6" cable using 24 gauge silver for the data lines. they are parallel in packing tape about 1/4" apart. Voltage & ground simple copper in teflon.
Initial sound quite incredible but some static like you get from a record that needs cleaning. After a bit of experimenting tried a simple shield using tin foil. static clicks gone, but also some of the live dynamics. Next experiment, foil shield in 1" tube around the cable but not touching. First impression wow!
I did a bunch of reading and lots of scientific discussion about the challenge of maintaining high data rates at 480mbps. Transmission line theory,impedance match, skin affect, wire size, ground bounce. All important at these rates. More science here than audiofools can imagine. I need a scope to perfect this, but there is a world of opportunity wrt sound quality. Night and day differences.
I plan to try some good antenna cable designed for gb frequencies and different configurations of shielding and ground plane.
Just starting with a new line of experiments on short diy usb.
I built a 6" cable using 24 gauge silver for the data lines. they are parallel in packing tape about 1/4" apart. Voltage & ground simple copper in teflon.
Initial sound quite incredible but some static like you get from a record that needs cleaning. After a bit of experimenting tried a simple shield using tin foil. static clicks gone, but also some of the live dynamics. Next experiment, foil shield in 1" tube around the cable but not touching. First impression wow!
I did a bunch of reading and lots of scientific discussion about the challenge of maintaining high data rates at 480mbps. Transmission line theory,impedance match, skin affect, wire size, ground bounce. All important at these rates. More science here than audiofools can imagine. I need a scope to perfect this, but there is a world of opportunity wrt sound quality. Night and day differences.
I plan to try some good antenna cable designed for gb frequencies and different configurations of shielding and ground plane.
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