I changed my turntable interconnects to Mogami 2965 (dual version of 2964) as it has low capacitance for my MM ( 57p/fm from Mogami specs). Previous cables where diy silver and a braided shield, so probably would have had higher capacitance. Mogamis are silent.
I have some KLE harmony rca plugs i got for friends rates some years back. I am curious, and hence reviving the thread. If the phono signal is low, does it pay to use better rca plugs (higher copper content) . I was thinking for the other turntables, about using good old Switchcraft rca plugs (which i like - tight fitting , nice dull gold plating)
I have some KLE harmony rca plugs i got for friends rates some years back. I am curious, and hence reviving the thread. If the phono signal is low, does it pay to use better rca plugs (higher copper content) . I was thinking for the other turntables, about using good old Switchcraft rca plugs (which i like - tight fitting , nice dull gold plating)
Then its not gold! Gold plate is 100% gold and never tarnishes - its wears through though...
Gold plating that is dull, or at least non-shiny, is not necessarily related to tarnishing.
Seldom is gold plating applied directly onto an electrode; usually a sub-layer (or intermediate layers) of metal plating is applied first, and the gold applied as the final layer.
The shininess of the gold plating is greatly affected by the composition of the sub-layers (as well as the surface finish of the electrodes themselves).
Assuming the same level of surface finish on the electrodes, among the more common sub-layer materials, electrolytic nickel will give more shininess than non-electrolytic (electroless) nickel, which in turn will result in greater shininess than a copper sub-layer.
The following page shows RCA jacks made by Mogami.
They are gold-plated, but clearly the plating is not shiny. This is because on this series of RCA connectors a copper sub-layer is applied first (sans nickel), with the gold plated on top of the copper.
http://www.monta-musen.com/shop/products/detail.php?product_id=3473
http://www.monta-musen.com/shop/upload/save_image/01141508_63c246dc920d7.png
Seldom is gold plating applied directly onto an electrode; usually a sub-layer (or intermediate layers) of metal plating is applied first, and the gold applied as the final layer.
The shininess of the gold plating is greatly affected by the composition of the sub-layers (as well as the surface finish of the electrodes themselves).
Assuming the same level of surface finish on the electrodes, among the more common sub-layer materials, electrolytic nickel will give more shininess than non-electrolytic (electroless) nickel, which in turn will result in greater shininess than a copper sub-layer.
The following page shows RCA jacks made by Mogami.
They are gold-plated, but clearly the plating is not shiny. This is because on this series of RCA connectors a copper sub-layer is applied first (sans nickel), with the gold plated on top of the copper.
http://www.monta-musen.com/shop/products/detail.php?product_id=3473
http://www.monta-musen.com/shop/upload/save_image/01141508_63c246dc920d7.png
Thanks Mark. I was comparing the neutrik (which seem a bright gold plating) vs the Switchcraft which isnt as bright . I am not sure but both the neutrik and switchcraft would have varying copper content in the brass
Thanks Kay, What i thought the connection contact is important, and I think goining Mogami over my diy cable was a good idea
Thanks @jcarr The neutrik are brighter gold than the Switchcraft. So that means different material is in the sub layer of the mentioned brands. That means the Switchcraft may have more copper in its sub layer.
They are nice jacks those Mogamis so they have higher copper content than say a shiny Neutrik jack
switchcraft with the dull deep gold look vs shiny of the Neutriks
Last edited:
Which of the in post #1 under
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-female-connectors-in-special-outline.245825/
mentioned versions would you prefer ?
Thank you very much for a statement.
So my favorite interconnects between SUT to phono stage consists of Morgami W2549 combined with the Pro-Fi RCAs. I trim back the shield carefully on one end and use one of the inner twisted pair (blue for instance) on the center conductor and the other conductor (white or clear) on the ground side.
The other side I comb out the shield and twist it with the conductor (white or clear) you used on the ground lug of the other RCA. That is the hard part as the bulk makes it a challenge to get it inserted into the ground lug. I bought a very small twist drill bit to enlarge the hole a bit, hardware stores have these. The center gets the other conductor (blue). Now reassemble the Pro-Fi RCA which has a really nice collet type strain relief.
Mark the end with the shield connection.
These interconnects have been much quieter than some well regarded highish end cables.
The nice thing about the connectors is they are low mass and the ground is made first and broken last avoiding pops if you disconnect without powering down.
These work between phono-stage and pre-amp as well.
2549 Mogami
RCAs
The other side I comb out the shield and twist it with the conductor (white or clear) you used on the ground lug of the other RCA. That is the hard part as the bulk makes it a challenge to get it inserted into the ground lug. I bought a very small twist drill bit to enlarge the hole a bit, hardware stores have these. The center gets the other conductor (blue). Now reassemble the Pro-Fi RCA which has a really nice collet type strain relief.
Mark the end with the shield connection.
These interconnects have been much quieter than some well regarded highish end cables.
The nice thing about the connectors is they are low mass and the ground is made first and broken last avoiding pops if you disconnect without powering down.
These work between phono-stage and pre-amp as well.
2549 Mogami
RCAs
For a DIY construction we could entertain the idea of an XLR jack in parallel with the conventional RCA/phono nightmare. Phono cartridges are naturally floating, and can benefit from their isolation just like a microphone does: a microphone cable keeps its signal conductors twisted together inside an isolated shield, and runs of hundreds of feet or hundreds of meters are done quietly and routinely. (A differential input at the receiving end helps for those extreme cases, but for 1 meter isn't as necessary). In this case we would carry signal on the inner conductors of, say, a 2549 and connect shield to either pin 1 of an XLR or directly to chassis ground if using RCA/phono jacks. The important point is that shield not carry any signal - so it's just a shield and can't contaminate signal. Chassis etc. of the turntable still goes directly to preamp chassis on its own separate conductor.
We're stuck in a terrific rut with RCA/phono jacks and their single-ended-ness and their resulting poor noise immunity, so we keep doing the same wrong things and wondering why a few feet of wire could matter. Looking outside our little world we could see how professional installations are done, then we would explore how instrumentation is done, and we would be happier. But we won't so we aren't. C'est la vie.
All good fortune,
Chris
We're stuck in a terrific rut with RCA/phono jacks and their single-ended-ness and their resulting poor noise immunity, so we keep doing the same wrong things and wondering why a few feet of wire could matter. Looking outside our little world we could see how professional installations are done, then we would explore how instrumentation is done, and we would be happier. But we won't so we aren't. C'est la vie.
All good fortune,
Chris
We have some ambiguity in translation. Conventional phono cartridges have no intentional connection between their shell/casing and signal wiring. In the bad old days companies like Stanton and Shure would include a removable link between shell and one channel's signal return ("ground"), but it was removable for turntables with separate turntable chassis to preamp chassis "ground" wires. (Not all turntables did in the early days!)
In all cases it's quietest to carry all noise currents in as separate as possible conductors. Most obviously signal should be separate from any shielding or ground currents. Then, as possible, the various metallic parts of the turntable need grounding to preamp chassis.
Please forgive me for being so adamant, but this has been done wrong forever, and for no good reason. For DIY especially we should just say no (more).
All good fortune,
Chris
In all cases it's quietest to carry all noise currents in as separate as possible conductors. Most obviously signal should be separate from any shielding or ground currents. Then, as possible, the various metallic parts of the turntable need grounding to preamp chassis.
Please forgive me for being so adamant, but this has been done wrong forever, and for no good reason. For DIY especially we should just say no (more).
All good fortune,
Chris
That will work, but (usually) even better is to connect white to RCA plug outer, but bring the cable's shield out and connect it to preamp chassis "ground", along with the separate turntable "ground" wire. In either case, the cable's shield should not be connected at the source (tonearm) end. As described in post #27, but keep it as short as possible.
All good fortune,
Chris
All good fortune,
Chris
Last edited:
The word "ground" should always be written with parenthesis, because it means so many different things that it's without meaning at all unless defined each time.
The issue of connecting signal "ground" or chassis "ground" to PE (Protective Earth, which is a long wire from the outlet to panel which is then hopefully somewhat connected to actual dirt) is a safety question. In general, don't experiment with safety.
All good fortune,
Chris
The issue of connecting signal "ground" or chassis "ground" to PE (Protective Earth, which is a long wire from the outlet to panel which is then hopefully somewhat connected to actual dirt) is a safety question. In general, don't experiment with safety.
All good fortune,
Chris
I know that shiny things make the DIYS HiFi enthusiast happy, just like fat, "serious" cables.
If we look at a turntable, Chris Hornbeck has made clear what kind of wires need to be connected.
I may add my little comment and show two ways of real improvement if you have a good phonograph and stylus.
A.
First, any connector is bad in the phono wire. Second, a heavy, hard cable will induce noise into the chassis.
So, if you want to stay conventional, use the lightest and most flexible wire that can do the job. Two wires inside and good shielding outside. Fix it mechanically inside the phono chassis. Let them end near the tone arm wires and solder them directly to the cable ends (as Chris described, with separate ground to the tone arm and separate grund to the phono pre.
This is not only the best you can do, but also the cheapest. Sorry, an expensive shiny RCA plug and fat wires are dead wrong here.
B.
Now the the heavy, extremely audible improvment. I suppose two things. Your record player has an external power supply and you have an external or separate phono PCB.
Fix the phono pre PCB inside the plinth. You should need very little or no wire for the connection to the tone arm wires. Solder the in and output cable to the pre PCB. Can be the same quality as the one mentioned at A. Supply the phono pre with it's stabilized voltage from the outside.
If you need to use a separate RCA plug, with this option your golden /platinum WBT connector will do much less electric harm, but still imballance the plinth.
Of course, you can battery power the pre amp and eliminate any ground problem. If you switch it off, even some 9 Volt block combination will last years.
OK, not if you use class A.
If we look at a turntable, Chris Hornbeck has made clear what kind of wires need to be connected.
I may add my little comment and show two ways of real improvement if you have a good phonograph and stylus.
A.
First, any connector is bad in the phono wire. Second, a heavy, hard cable will induce noise into the chassis.
So, if you want to stay conventional, use the lightest and most flexible wire that can do the job. Two wires inside and good shielding outside. Fix it mechanically inside the phono chassis. Let them end near the tone arm wires and solder them directly to the cable ends (as Chris described, with separate ground to the tone arm and separate grund to the phono pre.
This is not only the best you can do, but also the cheapest. Sorry, an expensive shiny RCA plug and fat wires are dead wrong here.
B.
Now the the heavy, extremely audible improvment. I suppose two things. Your record player has an external power supply and you have an external or separate phono PCB.
Fix the phono pre PCB inside the plinth. You should need very little or no wire for the connection to the tone arm wires. Solder the in and output cable to the pre PCB. Can be the same quality as the one mentioned at A. Supply the phono pre with it's stabilized voltage from the outside.
If you need to use a separate RCA plug, with this option your golden /platinum WBT connector will do much less electric harm, but still imballance the plinth.
Of course, you can battery power the pre amp and eliminate any ground problem. If you switch it off, even some 9 Volt block combination will last years.
OK, not if you use class A.
Hi,
I use Kle RCA plugs with my silver Mundorf wire and I am pretty happy. Is there better ones? For sure, but I did not deeply tested other component as I was satisfied with them.
Rgds
Adelmo
Mogami 2549 has two conductors, both surrounded by a spiral copper shield. The conductor insulation colors are blue and clear. It doesn’t matter if you use the blue or clear for the center signal wire; conductors are the same. I use the clear for my center signal wire and blue for the outer (ground), when soldering plugs. I twist the shield wires then solder to the outer ground part of the plug, along with the blue - on one end only - and snip the shield off at the other end. This way, cables I make are “directional” but they’re still shielded and very quiet.
I like the 2549 cable for interconnects quite a bit. If you keep the cables from your tonearm to SUT or phono preamp, short, capacitance will be low as well.
Duane
I suspect using a quality guitar lead might be a winner - this cable is designed for high impedance source (an electric guitar pickup) so should be low capacitance, and may have a semiconducting membrane for reduced microphony. Down side is its a single coax, not dual, which is less tidy for a stereo path.
RG59 miniature 75ohm coax has 52pF/m as it uses PE foam insulation rather than solid.
The other low-capacitance cable I know of is oscilloscope-probe wire, but unfortunately the inner conductor is significantly resistive to provide critical damping, so that would just introduce voltage noise in a phono cable(!)