I seem to remember that Frank Schroder recommended fishing line. The following may well have been posted by someone else - but I trust that you will excuse me the task of checking first!
There is a typ-e of line sold by all of the major tackle shops makers called Power Pro. That one is a bit stiff but there are others which are very soft and amazingly thin in diameter for this task. They are known generically as "gel-spun" lines.
Some of these can be peeled down to the required diameter. I would - if I were making a Schroder arm clone start with some 30Lb test breaking strain samples. I suspect that about 15-20lb ** would be ideal. If you go to a decent tackle shop they will probably give you a present of a foot or two of a few sizes on a goodwill basis.😉
Incidently I am very impressed with the alst two arms shown....very impressed indeed. Also when I last spoke with AudioNote (Kendo) in Japan about their cartridges I was advised that Frank's arm was Kendo San's first choice for his cartridges.
There is a typ-e of line sold by all of the major tackle shops makers called Power Pro. That one is a bit stiff but there are others which are very soft and amazingly thin in diameter for this task. They are known generically as "gel-spun" lines.
Some of these can be peeled down to the required diameter. I would - if I were making a Schroder arm clone start with some 30Lb test breaking strain samples. I suspect that about 15-20lb ** would be ideal. If you go to a decent tackle shop they will probably give you a present of a foot or two of a few sizes on a goodwill basis.😉
Incidently I am very impressed with the alst two arms shown....very impressed indeed. Also when I last spoke with AudioNote (Kendo) in Japan about their cartridges I was advised that Frank's arm was Kendo San's first choice for his cartridges.
I distinctly remember Frank NOT recomending fishing line, or any "mono-filiment" line. He recommened a multi fiber. Frank uses an "Aramid fiber"... Kevlar happens to be an Aramid fiber
JD
JD
Vectran thread
Hi
Thanks for the Vectran info, its very much appreciated, Vectran on its way:
Cheers cloud9:
Just as a side note, this is the turntable the arms going on. I still need to smooth the edges of the slate, make some feet and then oil and polish. The arm making has kind of been all consuming for the last month or so.
Plus the arm construction is much more fun than grinding away at a piece of slate with a file.
Hi
Thanks for the Vectran info, its very much appreciated, Vectran on its way:
Cheers cloud9:
Just as a side note, this is the turntable the arms going on. I still need to smooth the edges of the slate, make some feet and then oil and polish. The arm making has kind of been all consuming for the last month or so.
Plus the arm construction is much more fun than grinding away at a piece of slate with a file.
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I remember Frank saying that there is a fishing line and that fishermen would know the type - which is effectively non-stretch. You ARE correct in that he warned against mono-filament.
The line I mentioned is NOT mono-filament, but IS a braided exceptionally non-stretch modern ultra thin product - (so thin that it has damaged quite a few hands when not used with the greatest care). It is a fraction of the diameter of mono filament, does not melt with flame, and can be found by google of ' gel-spun fishing line'.
@ velvetsunrise.
Is that a slate + a dutch top plate on a Lenco? I have the same an am so impressed that my SP10 is getting a new slate home!! (Anyone need a Technics obsidian plinth??😉
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Hi Jeff,
Glad you like the sound! 🙂
The COG of the counterweight seems to be VERY low now. Just make shure that the resulting restoring force isn't too high. When you're changing from 120gr to 180gr pressings, the VTF should increase by no more than 0,05gr.
Enough of the technical stuff, just enjoy...
@ brianco: Audionote (Japan) was founded and headed by Hiroyasu Kondo(not Kendo) until his unfortunate passing in 2006.
Lastly, Vectran is a very good choice for the suspension thread.
Good night and good luck,
Frank
Glad you like the sound! 🙂
The COG of the counterweight seems to be VERY low now. Just make shure that the resulting restoring force isn't too high. When you're changing from 120gr to 180gr pressings, the VTF should increase by no more than 0,05gr.
Enough of the technical stuff, just enjoy...
@ brianco: Audionote (Japan) was founded and headed by Hiroyasu Kondo(not Kendo) until his unfortunate passing in 2006.
Lastly, Vectran is a very good choice for the suspension thread.
Good night and good luck,
Frank
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Revision 3 of my counterweight.
Raised the CG up a bit by reconfiguring the hung weights and added a fine tuning weight at the rear. No flop on this one, and the fine adjustment makes setu a lot easier to dial in the weight keeping the arm / string alignment and without upsetting azimuth (once set). Now playing record after record after record...wife thinks I'm crazy.
Haven't heard from Binspaul lately, wondering how he's coming along.
Jeff
Raised the CG up a bit by reconfiguring the hung weights and added a fine tuning weight at the rear. No flop on this one, and the fine adjustment makes setu a lot easier to dial in the weight keeping the arm / string alignment and without upsetting azimuth (once set). Now playing record after record after record...wife thinks I'm crazy.
Haven't heard from Binspaul lately, wondering how he's coming along.
Jeff
Attachments
Hi Jeff,
@JD: I was little bit engaged with my Light Speed Attenuator + Mono Block Power Amplifier project. I got my tonearm wire and cartridge clips this Monday. I am still waiting for my ebony wand to be delivered.
@brianco: Samples of the Kevlar thread can be obtained from CANSEW.
Best regards,
Bins.
@JD: I was little bit engaged with my Light Speed Attenuator + Mono Block Power Amplifier project. I got my tonearm wire and cartridge clips this Monday. I am still waiting for my ebony wand to be delivered.
@brianco: Samples of the Kevlar thread can be obtained from CANSEW.
Best regards,
Bins.
Schroder clone
Hi,
The Vectran thread arrived today, so just spent the last couple of hours threading the suspension and fitting the magnets.
I used J.D.s Vectran threading method with superglue, the fibres are very fine and extremely tough.
Very pleased with the results, no tendancy to rock sideways even when provoked, very smooth, friction seems extremely low, a slight breath of air is enough to move it when balanced.
Just the wireing to do, i have some 0.15mm solid silver, silk covered i am go to try.
Thanks for your suggestions and help.
Hi,
The Vectran thread arrived today, so just spent the last couple of hours threading the suspension and fitting the magnets.
I used J.D.s Vectran threading method with superglue, the fibres are very fine and extremely tough.
Very pleased with the results, no tendancy to rock sideways even when provoked, very smooth, friction seems extremely low, a slight breath of air is enough to move it when balanced.
Just the wireing to do, i have some 0.15mm solid silver, silk covered i am go to try.
Thanks for your suggestions and help.
that Vectran sure is fun stuff to work with 🙂 almost as fun as the wiring 🙂 🙂
Glad you got the technique down.
Glad you got the technique down.
A Merry Christmas and my best wishes for a happy and healthy new decade to all DIY enthusiasts(including those from the digital camp 🙂 !
Frank
Frank
Mery Christmas to all of the Disciples of Herr Schroeder and to the Meastro himself especially!
.
.
A little update...
Hi,
My project is slowly progressing at snail's speed.... Got most of the metal parts for the arm today. I will be getting the wood wand this Sunday. Hoping to finish my arm by the end of this month.
@JD : How is your arm doing ? Any new thoughts ?
Best regards,
Bins.
Hi,
My project is slowly progressing at snail's speed.... Got most of the metal parts for the arm today. I will be getting the wood wand this Sunday. Hoping to finish my arm by the end of this month.
@JD : How is your arm doing ? Any new thoughts ?
Best regards,
Bins.
Final stages
Hi,
Just need to wire mine up and fit cartridge, been a long haul to get to this stage, but very pleased how stable and smooth the arm operates. Turntable is still in the workshop, but hope to have it up and running by the weekend.
Cheers.
Hi,
Just need to wire mine up and fit cartridge, been a long haul to get to this stage, but very pleased how stable and smooth the arm operates. Turntable is still in the workshop, but hope to have it up and running by the weekend.
Cheers.
Attachments
One step close to the destination...
Hi,
For the past 2 days, I was busy building the wood wand for my arm. It took me almost a full day to build a perfect one out of ebony (It seems building one is simple though). I had to make 4 of them to get a perfect one. All the others pieces had some issues with the center hole or in some cases the wand chipped off....
Now, the only remaining portions are the counter weight and the head shell....
Best regards,
Bins.
Hi,
For the past 2 days, I was busy building the wood wand for my arm. It took me almost a full day to build a perfect one out of ebony (It seems building one is simple though). I had to make 4 of them to get a perfect one. All the others pieces had some issues with the center hole or in some cases the wand chipped off....
Now, the only remaining portions are the counter weight and the head shell....
Best regards,
Bins.
Very cool arm projects posted by all, here. I've been inspired to build one, too. Since I am at the starting point and the thead is rather large, I hope I can ask a few questions of builders: What weight is approximately appropriate for counterweight? Has anyone built the wand using different materials, aluminum, carbon fiber, wood, etc. and can you endorse one material over others? I have read Mr. Schoeder's recommendations as to type of magnets, their shape, and configuration of pole pieces. Is there a device that can measure the flux field of the magnets? What length seems to work best for the construction?
Thanks in advance for any information about the tone arm. BTW, I plan to install the arm on a Rek-O-Kut Rondine Deluxe 12H. I will be building a massive plinth so tonearm length limits will not be that important, I can construct a plinth to accomodate the arm.
Thanks in advance for any information about the tone arm. BTW, I plan to install the arm on a Rek-O-Kut Rondine Deluxe 12H. I will be building a massive plinth so tonearm length limits will not be that important, I can construct a plinth to accomodate the arm.
Hi westend,
1. Please read the threads: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/13372-diy-schroeder-tonearm-33.html#post2012219 for the counter weight value.
2. Wood wands will have less resonance than metals and carbon fiber wands.
@Frank: Can you provide me the AWG value of your solid core copper strands ?
Best regards,
Bins.
1. Please read the threads: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/13372-diy-schroeder-tonearm-33.html#post2012219 for the counter weight value.
2. Wood wands will have less resonance than metals and carbon fiber wands.
@Frank: Can you provide me the AWG value of your solid core copper strands ?
Best regards,
Bins.