There's some info on my blog page that may be helpful for building stat panels, schematics, sources for materials, etc... without spending a lot of money. However, my "beam splitter" cabinets were so difficult to build, I wouldn't advise anyone who isn't experienced with woodworking to attempt it. There are many simpler frame/cabinet configurations that work well I'm sure-- I'm continually amazed at all the clever ideas and projects that other members have posted on this forum.
I have some ideas and a few sketches lying around for simpler cabinet/frames which I could share with you if you want to PM me.
good luck with your project!
The Jazzman's Electrostatic Loudspeaker Page
Here's a drawing by Russ at the "Just Real Music" website-- a simple MDF frame with an open-backed box for a 12" dipole woofer-- about as simple as it gets:
http://www.justrealmusic.com/images/esl_schematic/Model-2ab drawing.jpg
http://www.justrealmusic.com/images/esl_schematic/Model-2ab drawing.jpg
Thanks for your post, great news for me.
Actually I'm very experienced in woodworking and my question was more about metal grill, step up transformer and foil dimensions.
I need sort of, ESL builds for dummies
, or is there some widely used project among forum members,where I can learn more about metal grill and foil.
Something inspired by ESL-57, would work for me, without subwoofer.
Actually I'm very experienced in woodworking and my question was more about metal grill, step up transformer and foil dimensions.
I need sort of, ESL builds for dummies
, or is there some widely used project among forum members,where I can learn more about metal grill and foil.Something inspired by ESL-57, would work for me, without subwoofer.
Thanks for your post, great news for me.
Actually I'm very experienced in woodworking and my question was more about metal grill, step up transformer and foil dimensions.
I need sort of, ESL builds for dummies
Something inspired by ESL-57, would work for me, without subwoofer.
The el-cheapo tranny and bias supply setup I used works great for hybrid operation with close d/s spacing but I wouldn't recommend that setup for a full range ESL like the Quad 57 you mentioned. I think it would be much easier to build a good sounding hybrid than a good sounding full range.
Here in BE and NL we build a lot of wire stators, for various reasons, one being sound (I won't go into that here), another being that perforated steel plate is not that easily/cheaply available compared to places like the US.
If wire stators interest you, there's a number of build reports at the URL below. It's in Dutch so you will need to run it through an online translator to get the English version.
Elektrostaten Projecten
Best,
Kenneth
If wire stators interest you, there's a number of build reports at the URL below. It's in Dutch so you will need to run it through an online translator to get the English version.
Elektrostaten Projecten
Best,
Kenneth
There are probably as many opinions as there are builders but I would advise bi-amping your ESL's if possible, using a 24db/octave active crossover and setting the crossover frequency between 250-350 hz in order to mitigate the dipole cancellation of the stat panels. This would require woofers that can play cleanly a couple of octaves above the crossover frequency (1khz) and most DVC subwoofers won't play that high without distortion and overshoot. I think you would be better off mating some good 8" or 10" mid-bass woofers to your stat panels, then augmenting the extreme low end with separate subwoofers if you like. Even crossing the woofers over at 300hz you will still have dipole cancellation, which you will need to compensate with a shelving circuit or a good graphic EQ. If you attempt to crossover lower to use a subwoofer alone, the dipole cancellation would become more problematic (more EQ & more amp power to compensate).
i used plastic grating and aluminium window screen spray painted with enamel for my very first build and they still sound great.if you check my posts you will find a few pictures of them.very cheap and very effective.if your interested in them, i will explain in more detail. jer
here is some:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/158115-material-esl-2.html these are in the process of being rebuilt after seven years of abuse.
here is some:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-exotics/158115-material-esl-2.html these are in the process of being rebuilt after seven years of abuse.
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There are probably as many opinions as there are builders but I would advise bi-amping your ESL's if possible, using a 24db/octave active crossover and setting the crossover frequency between 250-350 hz in order to mitigate the dipole cancellation of the stat panels. This would require woofers that can play cleanly a couple of octaves above the crossover frequency (1khz) and most DVC subwoofers won't play that high without distortion and overshoot. I think you would be better off mating some good 8" or 10" mid-bass woofers to your stat panels, then augmenting the extreme low end with separate subwoofers if you like. Even crossing the woofers over at 300hz you will still have dipole cancellation, which you will need to compensate with a shelving circuit or a good graphic EQ. If you attempt to crossover lower to use a subwoofer alone, the dipole cancellation would become more problematic (more EQ & more amp power to compensate).
I would love to build some wire stators, although it doesn't look all that easy to do. I can imagine how the wires' convex surfaces might cause less diffraction/turbulence in the air flow through the stators than might be the case with the flat surfaces [between the holes] of a perf metal stator.
It's ironic: You guys across the pond can't find cheap perf metal and we can't find suitable transformers over here.
I thought first to build ESL and than to bild subs 'around' them.
Petty that projects are in Dutch, because my Dutch sucks.
Can you expirienced builders all agree that using wire instead of perforated steel sheets is better, than I don't need to look for sheets.
Please help me clear this:
1. What kind of wire (or perfor. sheet) and foil is best to use
2. Is wire thikness and foil thikness in some kind of correlation
3. Is power of ESL define by this two things.
Petty that projects are in Dutch, because my Dutch sucks.
Can you expirienced builders all agree that using wire instead of perforated steel sheets is better, than I don't need to look for sheets.
Please help me clear this:
1. What kind of wire (or perfor. sheet) and foil is best to use
2. Is wire thikness and foil thikness in some kind of correlation
3. Is power of ESL define by this two things.
I doubt you would find universal agreement that wire is better than perf or visa versa. Perf would probably be much easier to build. I haven't heard wire stators myself so I can't comment on that but the perf stator ESL's I've heard sound pretty fantastic so I don't think you could go wrong either way.
I agree with you, Charlie: although I never built perf stators myself, I am convinced they are more easy to build and, therefore, definitely a better recommendation for a first project.
While I succeeded in building wire stators from the start, it was a very steep learning curve, painful at times, it took a lot of time, and the result is still not to my liking (never managed to get all the slack out of the wires, despite using some tricks...)
@stera66: the sound difference between wire and perf stator will be minimal, compared to the sound difference between ESLs and conventional speakers. Let the practical issues be your guide here!
Power or sensitivity of the ESL depends on panel area, polarization voltage, and stator-diaphragm spacing, not really on the type of stator. But you must correctly measure the D/S spacing in a wire ESL (the wire insulation must be taken into account).
Kenneth
While I succeeded in building wire stators from the start, it was a very steep learning curve, painful at times, it took a lot of time, and the result is still not to my liking (never managed to get all the slack out of the wires, despite using some tricks...)
@stera66: the sound difference between wire and perf stator will be minimal, compared to the sound difference between ESLs and conventional speakers. Let the practical issues be your guide here!
Power or sensitivity of the ESL depends on panel area, polarization voltage, and stator-diaphragm spacing, not really on the type of stator. But you must correctly measure the D/S spacing in a wire ESL (the wire insulation must be taken into account).
Kenneth
One more vote for starting with perforated metal (I recommend steel). I went through a few perforated aluminum stator prototypes and then final steel stators over a span of a few weeks. It's taking me forever to put together my first wire stators. Granted, I could have chosen a less labor intensive construction approach, but I think there's nearly universal agreement that perforated metal stators are easier to build and a better design to begin with.
Few
Few
Sure brings back memories...
I disagree about that last statement; wire stators have certain nice practical advantages over plates, too.
* They lend themselves more easily to electrical segmentation.
* They are easier to make safe for touching.
* They are less prone to HV arcing or spraying.
* They have less 'dead' capacitance than most plate stators.
Kenneth
Kenneth,
I agree entirely with your list of advantages of wire stators, which is why I'm building a pair. Nonetheless, those advantages don't make wire stators easier to build than perforated metal stators. I think the extra hassle will be worth it, or I wouldn't be going through the trouble, but building wire stators is more trouble---at least in my (limited) experience.
* I just realized that the source of your disagreement with my post may have been the unclear wording I used. When I said "better design to begin with" I meant that if it's your first ESL project, perforated metal stators are a good approach to use. In other words, "They're a better design for a first time builder." I didn't mean that perforated metal stators are inherently better than wire stators (see comments in first paragraph).
Few
I agree entirely with your list of advantages of wire stators, which is why I'm building a pair. Nonetheless, those advantages don't make wire stators easier to build than perforated metal stators. I think the extra hassle will be worth it, or I wouldn't be going through the trouble, but building wire stators is more trouble---at least in my (limited) experience.
* I just realized that the source of your disagreement with my post may have been the unclear wording I used. When I said "better design to begin with" I meant that if it's your first ESL project, perforated metal stators are a good approach to use. In other words, "They're a better design for a first time builder." I didn't mean that perforated metal stators are inherently better than wire stators (see comments in first paragraph).
Few
Hey Few,
I think we're on the same page and yes, I must have misread what you meant to say.
I too would be very interested to hear from you what, if any, difference you can make out between both types, please keep us informed!
There's this fellow builder in NL, his name is Rob de Lugt, who organizes an 'ESL meeting day' once a year somewhere in The Netherlands. People bring all sorts of DIY ESLs to these meetings. I've been wanting to attend for some time now but never quite made it. Hopefully this year I will. Should be a good opportunity to compare!
Kenneth
I think we're on the same page
and yes, I must have misread what you meant to say.I too would be very interested to hear from you what, if any, difference you can make out between both types, please keep us informed!
There's this fellow builder in NL, his name is Rob de Lugt, who organizes an 'ESL meeting day' once a year somewhere in The Netherlands. People bring all sorts of DIY ESLs to these meetings. I've been wanting to attend for some time now but never quite made it. Hopefully this year I will. Should be a good opportunity to compare!
Kenneth
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