Thanks, I got the JLH results fine..I was just being greedy and hoping you would test another class A amp for comparison in that group as you did with the IMD tests. No problem.
Hi Pawel, I was looking at spectra of 1kHz and !0KHz - even reading IMD it does show much narrower ranges of products than AB class. Of course, that also implies all the nice things about distortion distribution patterns that many guys like to hear....or rather not hear - as you say. 😎.
Two other candidates, the HIRAGA Monster and his 20W brother.
Seems like Hiraga wanted to more or less emulate some triode s
THD content, although those transistorized version have lower
harmonics levels...
Seems like Hiraga wanted to more or less emulate some triode s
THD content, although those transistorized version have lower
harmonics levels...
Thanks for taking the time and effort over those, Wahab. As Lineup said in the early posts, "I kinda knew it.."
At the least, there is now a grouping of some directly comparable analyses here for many followers of topolgy arguments to refer to. This is a lot more useful and sensible than all of us attempting to do our own, incompatible, simulations IMHO.
At the least, there is now a grouping of some directly comparable analyses here for many followers of topolgy arguments to refer to. This is a lot more useful and sensible than all of us attempting to do our own, incompatible, simulations IMHO.
Hi wahab,
Many thanks for your sims, greatly appreciated!
Humble wish: May we see a sim of the Technics SE-A3 (you mentioned in another thread)?
Many thanks for your sims, greatly appreciated!
Humble wish: May we see a sim of the Technics SE-A3 (you mentioned in another thread)?
Thanks , Ian
As you surely guessed, the best is yet to come...
There s an amazing old design i d like to give justice to...
Hi, 4fun
Well, for the time i restrain to popular DIY design..
Surely that i will make some tries on this particular
Technics, at least for the front end, to have an idea of
how it performs..
But this will surely need another thread, this time about
manufacturer s designs..
cheers,
Thankyou wahab, this has been an interesting read, all 15 pages! Moderators - well done to keep it on track! Much appreciated.
I have always wondered why we chase the .0000 when loudpeaker distortion is comparatively so high. I know there is a reason but have never found a simple explanation.
Terry
I have always wondered why we chase the .0000 when loudpeaker distortion is comparatively so high. I know there is a reason but have never found a simple explanation.
Terry
Hi Terry,
When you read the honest specifications, you might get the idea that the process was also an honest attempt to give customers some idea of the relative quality of the piece. This was certainly true for things like tuners and tape machines, but the purely electronic things needed more understanding to be done in meaningful ways, and presented in a useful way. The advertising guys polluted that effort before the average person got much benefit from it. In that time period, some really good equipment was designed and built.
Products that do measure extremely well these days are, on average, better than equipment that doesn't. This isn't always true, and it's rare that all relevant information makes it out to the public. Many ways to look at that. But given all the specifications and a schematic, knowledgeable people can make very good choices for sound equipment. The waters have been made far too murky by most equipment reviewers to allow the average person to be ale to make heads or tails out of anything. They gave up as a result.
Loudspeaker distortion is greater than most amplifiers as you've pointed out. But the causes and audible characteristics are different than electronic problems. You can really tell differences between amplifiers on decent speakers. If you can hear and appreciate better performing amplifiers on a given set of speakers, you may as well go with what you enjoy - as long as you can afford it$
So, simple explanation. Often the low distortion amplifier sounds better. If you can hear that difference on your speakers, go for it. Having said this, I know there will be plenty of exceptions to this rule (lower distortion = better sound quality). This isn't the place to get wound up on that.
-Chris
Well, there are reasons for that. One is simply the "spec wars" of the late 70's and into early 80's. All advertising.
When you read the honest specifications, you might get the idea that the process was also an honest attempt to give customers some idea of the relative quality of the piece. This was certainly true for things like tuners and tape machines, but the purely electronic things needed more understanding to be done in meaningful ways, and presented in a useful way. The advertising guys polluted that effort before the average person got much benefit from it. In that time period, some really good equipment was designed and built.
Products that do measure extremely well these days are, on average, better than equipment that doesn't. This isn't always true, and it's rare that all relevant information makes it out to the public. Many ways to look at that. But given all the specifications and a schematic, knowledgeable people can make very good choices for sound equipment. The waters have been made far too murky by most equipment reviewers to allow the average person to be ale to make heads or tails out of anything. They gave up as a result.
Loudspeaker distortion is greater than most amplifiers as you've pointed out. But the causes and audible characteristics are different than electronic problems. You can really tell differences between amplifiers on decent speakers. If you can hear and appreciate better performing amplifiers on a given set of speakers, you may as well go with what you enjoy - as long as you can afford it$
So, simple explanation. Often the low distortion amplifier sounds better. If you can hear that difference on your speakers, go for it. Having said this, I know there will be plenty of exceptions to this rule (lower distortion = better sound quality). This isn't the place to get wound up on that.
-Chris
Ok, thanks. As someone who was alive in the periods you mentioned I understand what you say. Still it was fun and easier than it is today with 5kW car amps to contend with.
Many thanks.
Many thanks.
Hi Terry,
I still have some MGT and Nakamichi car amplifiers, waiting for the next deserving car we buy. There's even Concord, Marantz, Denon DCC-8920, Nakamichi TD-700 and McIntosh head units in storage here. The new stuff just doesn't do anything for me.
-Chris
Well, yes! A real 5 KW amplifier for car audio doesn't exist I don't think. Not after you calculate the input power required after losses and convert that to current draw.
I still have some MGT and Nakamichi car amplifiers, waiting for the next deserving car we buy. There's even Concord, Marantz, Denon DCC-8920, Nakamichi TD-700 and McIntosh head units in storage here. The new stuff just doesn't do anything for me.
-Chris
wahab, if you have the time and inclination could you sim this one http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/142166-new-amplifier-uld-extreme.html
Post 380 has all the info. Many thanks if you can, understanding if you can't.
Terry
Post 380 has all the info. Many thanks if you can, understanding if you can't.
Terry
"Well, yes! A real 5 KW amplifier for car audio doesn't exist I don't think. Not after you calculate the input power required after losses and convert that to current draw."
It takes time to insill the laws of physics into the minds of our youth! Many do not like the reality check!
It takes time to insill the laws of physics into the minds of our youth! Many do not like the reality check!
Hi Terry,
I think nobody can hear the difference between 10 or 1ppm distortion at 20kHz.
But for me, I like the intellectual challenge of breaking the 1ppm barrier.
Cheers,
E.
So Chris, what of speaker-induced distortion into the electronics? Given that speakers are a non-linear load, any non-zero impedance voltage source will have its output distorted by the loading effects. Does this count as an electronic problem? It can certainly be reduced electronically - by reducing the amplifier output impedance.
Edmond - when you aim for <1ppm distortion, do you try to get that into a real loudspeaker load (non-linear) or only into a purely resistive load?
Of course, the 1ppm figure is load dependent, but basically, that doesn't change the challenge.
Cheers,
E.
Hi, Terry
I did some sims on it, and at first look, it has low THD,
somewhat lower than the ref. design i used in this thread,
which is also a "blameless"...
Graphs will be displyed soon..
cheers
My thanks wahab, I have been thinking of building a couple of 5 channel amps for a while. Wanted an amp that would go well into 4r loads.
Terry
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