A new album that is very disappointing to me is the praised Joss Stone one.
I went to a record shop and wanted to have a listen to this one. I first thought that it was quite a shame providing such crappy headphones to demo CDs. The bass and bass-drum sounded awful.
When I went to another store I thought that I'd give it another try. This shop used Beyerdynamic headphones. And guess what ? The bass content wasn't that crappy in the other shop because of the shitty headphones - it actuallly IS that crappy on the CD !
It is much too hot and unnatural. I don't care if this is the case with dance-stuff because nobody actually LISTENS to this stuff (well at least no one I know personally
) - it is usually only meant for dancing. But for music that is intended to be LISTENED to I can't accept it.
Regards
Charles
Edit: Maybe this kind of bass is very well suited to get through the noise of Hoovering. 
I went to a record shop and wanted to have a listen to this one. I first thought that it was quite a shame providing such crappy headphones to demo CDs. The bass and bass-drum sounded awful.
When I went to another store I thought that I'd give it another try. This shop used Beyerdynamic headphones. And guess what ? The bass content wasn't that crappy in the other shop because of the shitty headphones - it actuallly IS that crappy on the CD !
It is much too hot and unnatural. I don't care if this is the case with dance-stuff because nobody actually LISTENS to this stuff (well at least no one I know personally
) - it is usually only meant for dancing. But for music that is intended to be LISTENED to I can't accept it.Regards
Charles
Edit: Maybe this kind of bass is very well suited to get through the noise of Hoovering.
It seems almost anything very popular in the album charts these days, especially likely one-album wonders, sounds dreadful. It's as if the producers think there's some genuine benefit in bad sound. Wow, this sounds LOUD, maybe we'll sell more*! There needs to be some way of shaming or harming the sales of bad sounding CDs. I just wish more people had systems capable or hearing the problems, then the complaints could mount up... but it won't happen.
*because all the ladies busy hoovering can still hear the vocals over the hoover, and sing along, etc.
*because all the ladies busy hoovering can still hear the vocals over the hoover, and sing along, etc.
oradba69 said:After hearing a Stockfish recording (especially Sara K.) everything else out there sounds
Is it really that difficult to get it right?
Yes it is, there is only a small percentage of real good recordings available for audiophile's. I wished often i had been sitting behind the microphone's and mixing-tables.
Another fact is: there have been made a lot of real good, and simple recorded (ambience) 60 and 70 albums/songs. Not waisted by the overdone recording equipment hipe. All the compressing, mixing, amplifiing (with a zillion opamps of coarse), every step has its influence. The regular recordings done at this time have mostly a raw and sharp treble, what about high definition 24bit recording, or is it recorded in MP3 straight away? The Beatles recorded their music with a simple but good mixing table, if i am not mistaking with tubes. Another example of good microphoning and (maybe the abcense of?) mixing: Jazz at the Pawnshop, recorded 1976
tubee said:
Same goes for local bands. Sometime they just sound like crap (distorted, badly equed, noisy etc.), but I have quite a few very low budget CDs that sounds VERY clean, natural, "live", not squashed dynamicaly and edgy sounding like "commercial" albums and remasters. I'm pretty sure that this is because they used minimal compression and mastering technique and that there wasn't any producer saying "it's not loud enough".
Btw, since I work as an video editor, I often hear the work before and after the mastering. It's not music mixing but it goes under the same process. I have the feeling that when medium to heavy compression is used, it always increase distorsion even if there's no clipping. Based on that, i'm not sure that dynamic compression is really that reversible. Also, as far as I know about compressor, some of them can vary the compression based on frequency. Not taking this into account when you expand the audio back might get you some very odd results.
The strokes. Is This It?
Someone take the telephone off the guy and give in a microphone!! yeah, sure, use the effect for a chorus in one song, but the whole damn album?
Good recording:
New Music Live from the Panel (an Australian TV show)
Assorted music, mainly modern popular musicians. all recorded acoustically, close mic-ed with minimal accompaniment. They list exactly what their equipment is, mostly 1970s and 1980s gear. all run straight onto a 2 channel DAT. One take, no post processing, no mixing, just what they got on the night.
I want to get the previous 2 CDs which are hard to find.
really shows who is a good singer (Amiel, Heather Small, Jamelia) and who isn't. (Noel Gallagher, Good Charlotte)
Someone take the telephone off the guy and give in a microphone!! yeah, sure, use the effect for a chorus in one song, but the whole damn album?
Good recording:
New Music Live from the Panel (an Australian TV show)
Assorted music, mainly modern popular musicians. all recorded acoustically, close mic-ed with minimal accompaniment. They list exactly what their equipment is, mostly 1970s and 1980s gear. all run straight onto a 2 channel DAT. One take, no post processing, no mixing, just what they got on the night.
I want to get the previous 2 CDs which are hard to find.
really shows who is a good singer (Amiel, Heather Small, Jamelia) and who isn't. (Noel Gallagher, Good Charlotte)
Maybe there is hope ...
mpmarion: " ... Almost as if they played the originals using a 4" pioneer into a Maxwell House 2Lb coffee can ..."
jeff mai: " ... The obsession with [CD] compression is extremely annoying. ..."
Evan Robinson: " ... I believe they ARE optimizing for low quality speakers. ..."
jackinnj: " ... Talk about disappointing -- ... -- pretty awful, but what are you gonna do if you want to hear Szell and don't own the original LP's. ..."
John Hope: " ... You Can't Win ... The worst CD mastering effort I ever came across was ..."
jmateus: " ... I quit buying CD for quite some time not only because money is not an abundant commodity but also considering the price and, above all, the poor quality of this media. ..."
audio-kraut: " ... [re: CD publishers:] If that's their "production" philosophy - the trash can is always wide open. Considerng the effort that was put into production with what they had in the sixties and seventies ... this attitude stinks. ..."
....
" ... Starting next month, EMI will begin selling its entire music catalog with better sound quality and no DRM restrictions through Apple's iTunes Store. ... Full albums in DRM-free form can be bought at the same price as standard iTunes albums. ... " From pub. release at ZDNet ( http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9588_22-6172398.html?tag=nl.e539 )
If memory serves: the EMI folks publish a long list of 24-bit DVD-A discs in Europe and I believe they started in the '60s with the Beatles, et al, and currently participate in the re-mix / re-release of Sir George Martin's fantastic "Love" album = two discs: a CD and a DVD-A ... playing either will make anyone a believer that it is possible to do it right (IMOP, this is a really great piece of work = http://www.amazon.de/Love-Special-CD-+-DVD/dp/B000JJS8TM/ ... conspicuously absent from amazon.co.uk ? ) Even if you don't particularily like the Beatles music / recordings, everyone should give this a listen just to see what is possible in the way of a quality optical disc recording = requires a DVD player, preferably with a 24 bit / 96k DAC or better.
mpmarion: " ... Almost as if they played the originals using a 4" pioneer into a Maxwell House 2Lb coffee can ..."
jeff mai: " ... The obsession with [CD] compression is extremely annoying. ..."
Evan Robinson: " ... I believe they ARE optimizing for low quality speakers. ..."
jackinnj: " ... Talk about disappointing -- ... -- pretty awful, but what are you gonna do if you want to hear Szell and don't own the original LP's. ..."
John Hope: " ... You Can't Win ... The worst CD mastering effort I ever came across was ..."
jmateus: " ... I quit buying CD for quite some time not only because money is not an abundant commodity but also considering the price and, above all, the poor quality of this media. ..."
audio-kraut: " ... [re: CD publishers:] If that's their "production" philosophy - the trash can is always wide open. Considerng the effort that was put into production with what they had in the sixties and seventies ... this attitude stinks. ..."
....
" ... Starting next month, EMI will begin selling its entire music catalog with better sound quality and no DRM restrictions through Apple's iTunes Store. ... Full albums in DRM-free form can be bought at the same price as standard iTunes albums. ... " From pub. release at ZDNet ( http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9588_22-6172398.html?tag=nl.e539 )
If memory serves: the EMI folks publish a long list of 24-bit DVD-A discs in Europe and I believe they started in the '60s with the Beatles, et al, and currently participate in the re-mix / re-release of Sir George Martin's fantastic "Love" album = two discs: a CD and a DVD-A ... playing either will make anyone a believer that it is possible to do it right (IMOP, this is a really great piece of work = http://www.amazon.de/Love-Special-CD-+-DVD/dp/B000JJS8TM/ ... conspicuously absent from amazon.co.uk ? ) Even if you don't particularily like the Beatles music / recordings, everyone should give this a listen just to see what is possible in the way of a quality optical disc recording = requires a DVD player, preferably with a 24 bit / 96k DAC or better.
Hi OzMikeH,OzMikeH said:
A few days after I wrote that I saw the album and put it on. The sound effects at the beginning are pretty interesting, but once the music starts the vocal in particular and the basic envelope of sound goes two dimensional and flat.
Oh well, the music's good but my memory of the total effect still stands.
Regards, Mike.
HMM, I started this thread complaining about a Billy Joel CD that I found inlistenable.
I am here to praise a Billy Joel CD I find very listenable. "Songs in the Attic" is what I picked up on the used shelf a couple days ago and it hasn't left the player. It's just a mediocre recording of live performances of tracks that are a true fan's favorites. I think it really grabs the essence of a Joel concert and brings be back to seeing him at Boston Garden when I was 9 tears old. Me likes
Edit: sorry for the improper use of the apostrophe in the thread title
I am here to praise a Billy Joel CD I find very listenable. "Songs in the Attic" is what I picked up on the used shelf a couple days ago and it hasn't left the player. It's just a mediocre recording of live performances of tracks that are a true fan's favorites. I think it really grabs the essence of a Joel concert and brings be back to seeing him at Boston Garden when I was 9 tears old. Me likes
Edit: sorry for the improper use of the apostrophe in the thread title
Sting - The Dream of the Blue Turtles.
I do not have the original CD-issue any more, but this "Digitally Remastered" version lacks dynamics. Everything is mixed "upfront", which makes this album sound boring. There was much more to discover while hearing in the original issue.
The very first song on CD I listened to back in `83 was "Telegraph Road" from Dire Straits. (Together with some friends on a 15,000$ Stereo - this was the money only for the preamp and active speakers. The owner purchased the CD-Player in Japan, they were not available in Europe at this time)
We simply enjoyed the music coming from total silence and hearing the dynamics of every instrument - i guess this is what many recordings music of the eighties were about, to preserve dynamics and work with subtle sounds.
But again, it is the sound engeneers and the producers, not the equipment.
i was surprised, when I recently bought "Batik" with Ralph Towner, Jack deJohnette and Eddy Gomez. Sounded like a very fine contemporary jazz recording. I thought it was only some years old and was surprised when I read that it was from `78.
BTW, "Songs from the Attic" is essential, the best recording Billy Joel ever made...
All the best,
Salar
I do not have the original CD-issue any more, but this "Digitally Remastered" version lacks dynamics. Everything is mixed "upfront", which makes this album sound boring. There was much more to discover while hearing in the original issue.
The very first song on CD I listened to back in `83 was "Telegraph Road" from Dire Straits. (Together with some friends on a 15,000$ Stereo - this was the money only for the preamp and active speakers. The owner purchased the CD-Player in Japan, they were not available in Europe at this time)
We simply enjoyed the music coming from total silence and hearing the dynamics of every instrument - i guess this is what many recordings music of the eighties were about, to preserve dynamics and work with subtle sounds.
But again, it is the sound engeneers and the producers, not the equipment.
i was surprised, when I recently bought "Batik" with Ralph Towner, Jack deJohnette and Eddy Gomez. Sounded like a very fine contemporary jazz recording. I thought it was only some years old and was surprised when I read that it was from `78.
BTW, "Songs from the Attic" is essential, the best recording Billy Joel ever made...
All the best,
Salar
" ... it is the sound engeneers and the producers, not the equipment. ..."
Spot on!! Of late, as you note, producers and sound engineers have (in many cases deliberatly) allowed excessive compression in mass released CDs.
(Sony often will release an overly compressed CD in order to make their SACD releases sound "better", even from the same 24 bit studio masters ... this is what Bob Dylan was talking about: Sony owns Columbia and Dylan's newset, "Modern Times", is overly compressed and deliberately distorted and does not sound anything like the much better quality studio masters, either the analog tapes or the 24bit digital capture, thus Dylan's remark in a Rolling Stone interview: "CDs suck".
)
Spot on!! Of late, as you note, producers and sound engineers have (in many cases deliberatly) allowed excessive compression in mass released CDs.
(Sony often will release an overly compressed CD in order to make their SACD releases sound "better", even from the same 24 bit studio masters ... this is what Bob Dylan was talking about: Sony owns Columbia and Dylan's newset, "Modern Times", is overly compressed and deliberately distorted and does not sound anything like the much better quality studio masters, either the analog tapes or the 24bit digital capture, thus Dylan's remark in a Rolling Stone interview: "CDs suck".
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