I don't know if Devialet amps have switching power supplies as well, but if yes I would like to see a review with an "older" Halcro DM58 vs the Devialet flagship and the Ncore Mola Mola, poor & cons of each with a relative note !
Read the Ncore are very dependant of the wireing after it, and the review of the Halcro is talking about subjective "thin" sound on some reccording if my bad English understood the review !
Some amp/passive speaker combo are said to sound better than some others, and I'm asking myself if sometimes a good amp can feed better an other speaker than the reference one the magazines are using or if all is in the preamp + wireing setuping when it comes to extract the best of the whole chain (but the scopes measurements I mean which are not saying all)?
Humm, totally OT ! The thread is about the Phantoms and still no testimonials for instance with the LS50 side by side !
Read the Ncore are very dependant of the wireing after it, and the review of the Halcro is talking about subjective "thin" sound on some reccording if my bad English understood the review !
Some amp/passive speaker combo are said to sound better than some others, and I'm asking myself if sometimes a good amp can feed better an other speaker than the reference one the magazines are using or if all is in the preamp + wireing setuping when it comes to extract the best of the whole chain (but the scopes measurements I mean which are not saying all)?
Humm, totally OT ! The thread is about the Phantoms and still no testimonials for instance with the LS50 side by side !
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I can't hide those, they are over 70cm high and being monoblocs I'd need at least 6 of them!
Mine are rack-mountable and 2 units high stereo jobs.
I've heard good things about Chord amps but I also know of two guys who sold their Chords to get some MC2 Audio amps like mine which are also considerably cheaper but fan-cooled.
Personally I haven't heard Chords in anger so I can't say a lot.
I have at last managed to listen to the Devialet Phantom speakers in of all places 'Harrods' in London. Happened to be in the area whilst visiting the capital so.......third floor, technology section and there was a very, very attractive young woman managing the 'Devialet' display. She was very agreeable and showed me the single and double speaker set up and played some heavy bass content music and vocals with quite a lot of volume.
Impressions?..... well, mixed. The open floor of the demonstration area was not ideal so thats the first thing to consider but given that, the bass output was remarkable given the size of the speakers. The 'quality' of the bass was difficult to judge however because of the size of the room that they were playing in. They would need a home demo in a normal room to fully realise the bass potential and quality. The mid and top end were very clear and distortion free from what I heard. The volume was set at about 70% on one vocal demo (according to the 'Spark' ap.) and still there was little sign of distortion.
I needed to have a play around with their positioning as they were not set out in the conventional manner as a stereo pair so really my impressions are limited by the display set up.
It was worth the effort to see them and listen to them first hand and maybe if I lived anywhere near a store I would get a home demo just to see what they were like in a real world situation. But at over £3,000 for a full stereo set up it is a big layout that I could never justify.
The 'Law of diminishing returns' kicks in with these, rendering them unaffordable. For the size and output and the inclusion of amplifiers and all the necessary streaming tech. however they are are very neat bit of kit. It will be interesting to see if any else 'runs' with the same ideas at a better price.
Impressions?..... well, mixed. The open floor of the demonstration area was not ideal so thats the first thing to consider but given that, the bass output was remarkable given the size of the speakers. The 'quality' of the bass was difficult to judge however because of the size of the room that they were playing in. They would need a home demo in a normal room to fully realise the bass potential and quality. The mid and top end were very clear and distortion free from what I heard. The volume was set at about 70% on one vocal demo (according to the 'Spark' ap.) and still there was little sign of distortion.
I needed to have a play around with their positioning as they were not set out in the conventional manner as a stereo pair so really my impressions are limited by the display set up.
It was worth the effort to see them and listen to them first hand and maybe if I lived anywhere near a store I would get a home demo just to see what they were like in a real world situation. But at over £3,000 for a full stereo set up it is a big layout that I could never justify.
The 'Law of diminishing returns' kicks in with these, rendering them unaffordable. For the size and output and the inclusion of amplifiers and all the necessary streaming tech. however they are are very neat bit of kit. It will be interesting to see if any else 'runs' with the same ideas at a better price.
In practice, Devialet Phantom has nothing in common with the full-size Devialets, nor has anything to justify with its price.
Posted this review to Amazon:
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Wow, stumbled across this on Wired. This product oozes consumer marketing pseudo-science. I won't even call it audiophile pseudo-science, because even the most un-skeptical audiophile couldn't take this seriously.
- There's no such thing as "implosive sound" in any sort of audio engineering context.
- Nobody quotes "saturation" figures as part of a specification or tested parameter
- There's no detailed specs readily given for this device.
- This unit obviously has distortion, and it is measureable, by virtue of it being a physical speaker existing in the real world.
If you look a bit deeper, you will find limited specs on their website. For the silver model (3000W!, 105db!), here's a very good indicator of performance....
BANDWIDTH
16Hz to 25kHz ± 2dB at 82dB SPL | 28Hz to 25kHz ± 2dB at 92dB SPL | 49Hz to 25kHz ± 2dB at 102dB SPL
I'm reasonably confident that the people seriously considering this product don't understand these numbers. What do they mean? How do magnets work? Well, they are quoting "Frequency Response" vs. "Sound Pressure Level". Or, in layman's terms, how much high's (treble) and low's (bass) vs. how much loud..........oh, at 1m (3.3 ft) from the speaker. Also, I'll have to assume these are in-room measurements, where bass level is increased by the reflections in the room.
16hz @ 82 db @ 1m - You'll never even hear this (and it's definitely 82db - 2db = 80db)....most people simply can't hear below 20hz. 16hz bass has to be over 100db at the listening position to be able to feel it. Google "data-bass" for some real testing of subwoofer systems that can produce usable 16hz output. This product is not one of them. Overall, 82 db@1m is not loud. At a 10 ft distance, in a moderately damped room, that's about 74db, about as loud as a decent TV set can get.
28hz @ 92db @ 1m - Pretty ok, enough low bass for any popular or modern music, at a very modest volume. 92db is about 84db@10ft, indoors, or any half decent stereo system with floor standing speakers playing at a moderate volume. I critically listen to music at home at around 90 db, up to 95 db.
49hz @ 102db @ 1m - Here's where you start seeing the real limits of their woofers. About 94db, in room, or actually loud enough for a small, wild cocktail party with all your smug, wine drinking, selffartsmelling friends who enjoy massivelyoverpricedshinysounddocks. 49hz is just enough bass to handle most popular music, but not some modern EDM. This will be an impressive sound level for anyone who has never spent any time around a decent home hi-fi system or PA system.
How do does this sound? Well, for starters, it has some sort of plastic cladding over the woofers. This is generally a bad sign. But it can be valid to add mass to a woofer (not usually by plastic cladding mind you) to improve low bass (at the expense of sensitivity - this is a very insensitive design, clearly) so I'll let that slide. No idea what the drives are, but I doubt any of them are more than $20 each, especially since we can't see them.
It uses a Texas Instruments PCM1978 "Digital to Analog Converter" chip, originally put on the market in the year 2003, and $5 each in any reasonable quantity. Pretty bog standard stuff, and if you read the datasheet (google it), they'll even tell you how to use it properly in a circuit. Nothing cutting edge for 2016. About what you would find in any $100 external sound card.
But, lets get down to it really. You're connecting via Bluetooth, streaming music or listing to your MP3 collection.........it's not going to sound as good as using a decent PC with FLAC files, an asynchronous USB connection to a good DAC. Period.
What should you get instead? Well, there are plenty of sound docks on the market. Some of the big ones are pretty comparable to this, and probably sound just as good at a fraction of the cost, and probably look more reasonable.
If you want a good all around home system, I'd try some JBL Pro LSR308 ($449 pr) studio monitors from Amazon, with your wireless or usb dac of choice (with an onboard volume control, or some sort of preamp). They will completely wreck this sound dock, in volume, sound quality, and extension. One speaker is about the same size as one of these units.
If you can't get over the whole "SUPER LOUD!!!", "4500 WATTS!!!" deal, why not get some really serious speakers? You can get into a full on entry level JBL PA setup for about $2k or so:
- JBL JRX225 Speakers, pair, $820. Huge 2x15 PA top speaker
- JBL JRX218S Subwoofer, pair, $680. 18" single subwoofer
- Behringer iNuke NU4-6000, $350. 4-channel pro amp. 6000w peak, nominal.
- Crossover unit, Mixer, DAC, cables and DAC of your choice, $500.
If you are setting up a multi-thousand square foot "rec room" or "man cave" or "nightclub" where you regularly host parties for 300+ people, this system is perfect.
If you do end up buying this overpriced sound dock, I envy your ability to waste money.
------------------------------------------------------
Wow, stumbled across this on Wired. This product oozes consumer marketing pseudo-science. I won't even call it audiophile pseudo-science, because even the most un-skeptical audiophile couldn't take this seriously.
- There's no such thing as "implosive sound" in any sort of audio engineering context.
- Nobody quotes "saturation" figures as part of a specification or tested parameter
- There's no detailed specs readily given for this device.
- This unit obviously has distortion, and it is measureable, by virtue of it being a physical speaker existing in the real world.
If you look a bit deeper, you will find limited specs on their website. For the silver model (3000W!, 105db!), here's a very good indicator of performance....
BANDWIDTH
16Hz to 25kHz ± 2dB at 82dB SPL | 28Hz to 25kHz ± 2dB at 92dB SPL | 49Hz to 25kHz ± 2dB at 102dB SPL
I'm reasonably confident that the people seriously considering this product don't understand these numbers. What do they mean? How do magnets work? Well, they are quoting "Frequency Response" vs. "Sound Pressure Level". Or, in layman's terms, how much high's (treble) and low's (bass) vs. how much loud..........oh, at 1m (3.3 ft) from the speaker. Also, I'll have to assume these are in-room measurements, where bass level is increased by the reflections in the room.
16hz @ 82 db @ 1m - You'll never even hear this (and it's definitely 82db - 2db = 80db)....most people simply can't hear below 20hz. 16hz bass has to be over 100db at the listening position to be able to feel it. Google "data-bass" for some real testing of subwoofer systems that can produce usable 16hz output. This product is not one of them. Overall, 82 db@1m is not loud. At a 10 ft distance, in a moderately damped room, that's about 74db, about as loud as a decent TV set can get.
28hz @ 92db @ 1m - Pretty ok, enough low bass for any popular or modern music, at a very modest volume. 92db is about 84db@10ft, indoors, or any half decent stereo system with floor standing speakers playing at a moderate volume. I critically listen to music at home at around 90 db, up to 95 db.
49hz @ 102db @ 1m - Here's where you start seeing the real limits of their woofers. About 94db, in room, or actually loud enough for a small, wild cocktail party with all your smug, wine drinking, selffartsmelling friends who enjoy massivelyoverpricedshinysounddocks. 49hz is just enough bass to handle most popular music, but not some modern EDM. This will be an impressive sound level for anyone who has never spent any time around a decent home hi-fi system or PA system.
How do does this sound? Well, for starters, it has some sort of plastic cladding over the woofers. This is generally a bad sign. But it can be valid to add mass to a woofer (not usually by plastic cladding mind you) to improve low bass (at the expense of sensitivity - this is a very insensitive design, clearly) so I'll let that slide. No idea what the drives are, but I doubt any of them are more than $20 each, especially since we can't see them.
It uses a Texas Instruments PCM1978 "Digital to Analog Converter" chip, originally put on the market in the year 2003, and $5 each in any reasonable quantity. Pretty bog standard stuff, and if you read the datasheet (google it), they'll even tell you how to use it properly in a circuit. Nothing cutting edge for 2016. About what you would find in any $100 external sound card.
But, lets get down to it really. You're connecting via Bluetooth, streaming music or listing to your MP3 collection.........it's not going to sound as good as using a decent PC with FLAC files, an asynchronous USB connection to a good DAC. Period.
What should you get instead? Well, there are plenty of sound docks on the market. Some of the big ones are pretty comparable to this, and probably sound just as good at a fraction of the cost, and probably look more reasonable.
If you want a good all around home system, I'd try some JBL Pro LSR308 ($449 pr) studio monitors from Amazon, with your wireless or usb dac of choice (with an onboard volume control, or some sort of preamp). They will completely wreck this sound dock, in volume, sound quality, and extension. One speaker is about the same size as one of these units.
If you can't get over the whole "SUPER LOUD!!!", "4500 WATTS!!!" deal, why not get some really serious speakers? You can get into a full on entry level JBL PA setup for about $2k or so:
- JBL JRX225 Speakers, pair, $820. Huge 2x15 PA top speaker
- JBL JRX218S Subwoofer, pair, $680. 18" single subwoofer
- Behringer iNuke NU4-6000, $350. 4-channel pro amp. 6000w peak, nominal.
- Crossover unit, Mixer, DAC, cables and DAC of your choice, $500.
If you are setting up a multi-thousand square foot "rec room" or "man cave" or "nightclub" where you regularly host parties for 300+ people, this system is perfect.
If you do end up buying this overpriced sound dock, I envy your ability to waste money.
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Add to this a "A+D class hybrid power amplifier with A class stage packed in a 1 square cm IC" and you get the idea.
errr.......turbodawg......have you heard them yet?
Hands up, who has heard them out of those who have commented about them. Hands up also who could design and produce a speaker of the same size, that does the same, and looks better, but would also fill all the desirable audiophile criteria that this speaker apparently lacks.
Anyone?
Hands up, who has heard them out of those who have commented about them. Hands up also who could design and produce a speaker of the same size, that does the same, and looks better, but would also fill all the desirable audiophile criteria that this speaker apparently lacks.
Anyone?
I've heard them more than several times in Montreal at Son et Image (and its successor) over the course of the past few years. I'll start by saying they're French and as a result will offend the sensibilities of some if for no other reason, then I'll add that they are designed as a life style product which will offend many others.. lol
The marketing text appears based on my rusty French to be a fairly literal translation of the French marketing materials on the site, or at least that was my impression some time ago when I looked.. Definitely amateurish.
They sound far from terrible, much better in fact than any sound dock I have heard. They appear to be both well engineered and well made. I feel though that they are far more suitable for home theater personally than straight music reproduction and would say that they are poor value for the money, but push some aesthetic buttons in the modern aesthetic. I don't like the way they look at all. (but I like the French)
They will play quite loud and produce a lot of bass particularly when you consider the size of the drivers which are custom and probably a bit more than the $20 quoted in a previous post. (Not the best bass I have heard particularly at high spls, but these were playing in a space that was not much smaller than my entire house so perhaps not entirely a fair assessment either.)
Did I say they play loud? No kidding they play really, really loud, and are hard to miss. 😛
I have listened to them for a probably a couple of hours or less over several years so that would indicate I am not particularly fond of them. My tastes run to horns and largish Onkens, big SE tube amps, all analog signal path, and vinyl or a good digital source.
The marketing text appears based on my rusty French to be a fairly literal translation of the French marketing materials on the site, or at least that was my impression some time ago when I looked.. Definitely amateurish.
They sound far from terrible, much better in fact than any sound dock I have heard. They appear to be both well engineered and well made. I feel though that they are far more suitable for home theater personally than straight music reproduction and would say that they are poor value for the money, but push some aesthetic buttons in the modern aesthetic. I don't like the way they look at all. (but I like the French)
They will play quite loud and produce a lot of bass particularly when you consider the size of the drivers which are custom and probably a bit more than the $20 quoted in a previous post. (Not the best bass I have heard particularly at high spls, but these were playing in a space that was not much smaller than my entire house so perhaps not entirely a fair assessment either.)
Did I say they play loud? No kidding they play really, really loud, and are hard to miss. 😛
I have listened to them for a probably a couple of hours or less over several years so that would indicate I am not particularly fond of them. My tastes run to horns and largish Onkens, big SE tube amps, all analog signal path, and vinyl or a good digital source.
Nope, and I really don't need to. I'm sure it sounds pretty good, and they are clearly doing some neat things with with their design:
http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2014/1216/Devialet-PHANTOM-White Paper.pdf
However, their marketing is PURE BS.
So 4500 watts ..is that the maximum power handling of the speaker or the maximum output of the hybrid class A/D amp used? How anyone can even start to take a company or product that plucks figures like this out of thin air seriously is personally beyond me.
Fair enough they might look nice , they might use some good tech, they might even sound good but c'mon stop trying to blind people with BS claims . For me any company that uses figures like this is immediately dismissed as a contender for my hard earned cash
Fair enough they might look nice , they might use some good tech, they might even sound good but c'mon stop trying to blind people with BS claims . For me any company that uses figures like this is immediately dismissed as a contender for my hard earned cash
What were your conclusions?
I would never be in a position to buy a full Phantom set up but nonetheless I would like an oportuntiy to have them at home for awhile. A matt black version would be a nice alternative finish for them.
As for advertising BS.......most companies are guilty of this, it's what selling is all about.
I would never be in a position to buy a full Phantom set up but nonetheless I would like an oportuntiy to have them at home for awhile. A matt black version would be a nice alternative finish for them.
As for advertising BS.......most companies are guilty of this, it's what selling is all about.
As for advertising BS.......most companies are guilty of this, it's what selling is all about.
Up to a point yes but the claim here is like Nissan saying their Micra puts out 1500 BHP at the front wheels.
Up to a point yes but the claim here is like Nissan saying their Micra puts out 1500 BHP at the front wheels.
..or VW claiming their cars did 68mpg rather than 34mpg and being found out that they had been lying through their teeth. But of course all advertised mpg ratings are lies according to real world useage.
The Phantom power amp sections might justifiably be rated at 3000 watts but perhaps only for momentary peaks lasting less than a second.
The Phantom power amp sections might justifiably be rated at 3000 watts but perhaps only for momentary peaks lasting less than a second.
I audiitoned a pair of Phantoms on 3rd party stands, connected to a Dialog device. Without going into too many details, I find it a great lifestyle product of B&O or Sonos kind which would probably meet the declared specs under certain conditions (we haven’t done the measurements). An excellent solution in terms of convenience, integration and connectivity. For sure, there is a lot of Devialet trickled-down technology inside, but the miniaturisation seems to be proportionally diminishing the Devialet signature sound which is clear, lots of definition and microdynamics, does not saturate easily, even very audible and present low range. However, if you come with traditional stereophonic habits and demands, you will find the instrument positioning precise but virtually no soundstage as a whole, no volume in sound, no impact in low frequencies.
So, it is much like the Shroud of Turin: there is veil and there are contours, but there is no body inside.
So, it is much like the Shroud of Turin: there is veil and there are contours, but there is no body inside.
Just what sort of advantage can the company expect by advertising that a small domestic speaker can handle 4,500 watts, perhaps something got lost in translation? Or, a French watt is different and requires a couple of extra zeros?
4500 watts is 37.5 Amps at 120 V,
Suppose the switching power supply is 95 % efficient and the Class D 98%.
this means it takes a 40.2 X (electric code 80%) = 50.25 Amp breaker with properly gauged wires to power the amplifier.
50.25 amp breaker awesome, never seen that even in the home industry.
I would like to offer my service to devialet owners to install a dedicated electrical entrance and circuit for their devialet!
Suppose the switching power supply is 95 % efficient and the Class D 98%.
this means it takes a 40.2 X (electric code 80%) = 50.25 Amp breaker with properly gauged wires to power the amplifier.
50.25 amp breaker awesome, never seen that even in the home industry.
I would like to offer my service to devialet owners to install a dedicated electrical entrance and circuit for their devialet!
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