I am looking for some inspiration on a good enclosure and FR combination for my needs. These are as follows:
Room is about 4.5m x 5.5m. Seating position about 3m from the wall. It has solid timber floors which are on joists/peers (subfloor space). 2.5m high ceiling. Couch seating so needs reasonable soundstage/off axis performance.
Amplifier which I am currently building is Class A (JLH69) which will have about 7-8watts with my power supply. But I would also like to be able to use for listening to tv through my AV receiver. I don't have space for 2 sets of speakers. I will make a switch box with a 4PDT toggle switch to switch between amp and AV receiver.
I would like them to be floorstanders, but not too large. I'm thinking of a 4-4.5 in speaker. Something with high sensitivity which is suitable for good quality low volume listening at night when kids are asleep. Something also with a good low f3 (not expecting miracles).
I have 6 solid 20mm veneered particle board doors (heavy) from our renovations which were coated in clear varnish so plenty of free material to work with.
So far the Frugel Horn Mk3 and L'Stylo designs have caught my eye for their dimensions (tall and slim) and aesthetics. Speaker wise I am open to ideas. I have been looking at the FE126NV for its sensitivity and the MA CHR-70. MA CHN-70 also as it is cheap but I haven't found any detailed reviews.
Any advice or opinions welcome but I do have a budget of sorts for the speakers (< $100 each) unless I really can't get what I need in that price range.
Any overall major difference to performance of a compact folded horn design vs a bass reflex of comparable size for FR speakers?
Room is about 4.5m x 5.5m. Seating position about 3m from the wall. It has solid timber floors which are on joists/peers (subfloor space). 2.5m high ceiling. Couch seating so needs reasonable soundstage/off axis performance.
Amplifier which I am currently building is Class A (JLH69) which will have about 7-8watts with my power supply. But I would also like to be able to use for listening to tv through my AV receiver. I don't have space for 2 sets of speakers. I will make a switch box with a 4PDT toggle switch to switch between amp and AV receiver.
I would like them to be floorstanders, but not too large. I'm thinking of a 4-4.5 in speaker. Something with high sensitivity which is suitable for good quality low volume listening at night when kids are asleep. Something also with a good low f3 (not expecting miracles).
I have 6 solid 20mm veneered particle board doors (heavy) from our renovations which were coated in clear varnish so plenty of free material to work with.
So far the Frugel Horn Mk3 and L'Stylo designs have caught my eye for their dimensions (tall and slim) and aesthetics. Speaker wise I am open to ideas. I have been looking at the FE126NV for its sensitivity and the MA CHR-70. MA CHN-70 also as it is cheap but I haven't found any detailed reviews.
Any advice or opinions welcome but I do have a budget of sorts for the speakers (< $100 each) unless I really can't get what I need in that price range.
Any overall major difference to performance of a compact folded horn design vs a bass reflex of comparable size for FR speakers?
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A competently designed enclosure from any of the cited topologies should work well enough in a room the size mentioned, but there are placement considerations for rear mouth horns such as the Frugals, or many of the larger Woden labyrinths that unless the space can be dedicated to the audio system only can limit their domestic practicality.
When active in building a fair range of enclosure types, the build complexity was never an issue for me, but I’ve long been on record as favouring “simpler” forward or side vented designs such as the Pensils, Le Stylo, Fonkens, etc for their flexibility of placement.
My daily drivers for the last 5(?) years or so are A10.3 in Pensils, and one of my last builds was with A11MS in whatever is the name of Scott’s tall MLTL. I could have easily lived with their sonics, but ran out of time to give them the proper aesthetic finish I’d have wanted.
I’ve not had a chance to hear the latest version of the Fostex, but found the prior generation of FEXX6 to be a bit too shouty, and much preferred the WKs - but only as a second choice after most of the MA line.
When active in building a fair range of enclosure types, the build complexity was never an issue for me, but I’ve long been on record as favouring “simpler” forward or side vented designs such as the Pensils, Le Stylo, Fonkens, etc for their flexibility of placement.
My daily drivers for the last 5(?) years or so are A10.3 in Pensils, and one of my last builds was with A11MS in whatever is the name of Scott’s tall MLTL. I could have easily lived with their sonics, but ran out of time to give them the proper aesthetic finish I’d have wanted.
I’ve not had a chance to hear the latest version of the Fostex, but found the prior generation of FEXX6 to be a bit too shouty, and much preferred the WKs - but only as a second choice after most of the MA line.
Thanks Chris. I notice the Le Stylo is very similar to the Pensil designed for the CHR-70 (latter being a bit bigger).
http://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/pensils/Pensil-R70s3-map.pdf
Have you ever heard Le Stylo with FF105wk or Pensil with CHR-70?
Cost would be similar. Sound like your preference would be for the MA.
I am concerned about the lower sensitivity of the MA speakers, but have never heard one. I have read that published SPL figures don't do justice to them.
http://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/pensils/Pensil-R70s3-map.pdf
Have you ever heard Le Stylo with FF105wk or Pensil with CHR-70?
Cost would be similar. Sound like your preference would be for the MA.
I am concerned about the lower sensitivity of the MA speakers, but have never heard one. I have read that published SPL figures don't do justice to them.
Well, as the “Pensil” genus was originally (commissioned?) designed by Scott for Mark Audio drivers, “stylo” was a creative naming solution to using the same overall topology and general tuning goals for the WK driver(s?). To be honest, I can’t remember if anything was modelled or built for Fostex drivers other than the FF125WK.
And with the literally dozens of permutations of driver / enclosure combinations we prototyped, I can’t remember if I heard CHRs in Pensils, but in the numerous occasions of comparable builds with the CHR/CHN/Alpairs and Fostex FE / FF-WKs, I always preferred the A7 or A10 to the nominally same sized Fostex - with the exception of the quite stunning little FF85WK. The late Terry Cain first turned us on to it’s predecessor, which was no slouch either.
As for the issue of raw sensitivity, that was a bit of a concern in the early days - particularly when coupled with flea-powered amps such as 2A3, 300B, triode connected EL84, or even the original ACA; but with the combination of modest room size, listening levels - and realistic expectations - that proved to be less of an issue than we’d feared.
And with the literally dozens of permutations of driver / enclosure combinations we prototyped, I can’t remember if I heard CHRs in Pensils, but in the numerous occasions of comparable builds with the CHR/CHN/Alpairs and Fostex FE / FF-WKs, I always preferred the A7 or A10 to the nominally same sized Fostex - with the exception of the quite stunning little FF85WK. The late Terry Cain first turned us on to it’s predecessor, which was no slouch either.
As for the issue of raw sensitivity, that was a bit of a concern in the early days - particularly when coupled with flea-powered amps such as 2A3, 300B, triode connected EL84, or even the original ACA; but with the combination of modest room size, listening levels - and realistic expectations - that proved to be less of an issue than we’d feared.
I think i'll go with the A10.3 in a Pensil enclosure. Seems proven and what a few of you exeperienced guys seem to have put into use over others.
Thanks for the advice.
Thanks for the advice.
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I am quite relieved to see your choice because I started off with the wrong choice and it took me awhile to recover. The A10.3 in a Pencil is a good option, I built a pair some years ago. I’ve also put these drivers in a 13 litre bass reflex and it sounds very good there too. The bass in the bass reflex box is really good with a SE tube amp, that in the Pencil is a bit drier, I’m not sure which I prefer.
The paper cone version is preferred by some.
The paper cone version is preferred by some.
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Bass reflex may have better WAF. Might have to look into that. Do you remember which particular BR design you used?
For high sensitivity and bass extension, it's hard to beat the Faital 4 inch 4FE32 into a TABAQ.
Here's a short review comparing the Faital vs Fostex and Alpair.
TABAQ TL for Tang Band
Here's a short review comparing the Faital vs Fostex and Alpair.
TABAQ TL for Tang Band
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It’s very simple! Just make a box of roughly 13 litres, add some 2” / 50mm diameter plastic drain pipe for a port and you’re done. I decided on a width just large enough for the driver. I can draw it up for you if you want. The volume and port length were provided by Scottmoose, although you can derive it yourself on the back of a napkin.
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Might I suggest a tapered TL design? There is a 40in tall floorstander FAST/WAW with a 3.5in full range of your choice that sounds spectacular. One of the best speakers I have heard ever. It’s the tall ones:
I definitely like the idea but does complicate things somewhat and comes with a large increase in cost with 2 quality woofers and crossover components. Maybe something for the future.
The RS225-8 can be shipped to AUS for $55/pair. At one point they were on sale for $50ea. But now $60ea so $175 for the woofers. You can use the B80’s for $52 ea or even TC9FD or your favorite 3in full range (peerless, Tang Band, Fostex, MA, etc). Crossover parts about $110 in parts. 3 sheets of 18mm BB plywood is whatever your local price is. Not outrageous but one of the best speakers I have heard anywhere.
No not outrageous. Such a strong endorsement does hold some weight. RS225-8 is $140AUD each locally not including shipping. We really get screwed over here. I had looked at making Paul Carmody's Amigas a while ago. Cost in speakers and crossover is not too far off what you describe (slightly less). They use RS180 in traditional 2 way.
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Bit of a tangent but Visaton speakers are easily to get and fairly cheap in Australia via Mouser etc. Free delivery.
BG20 $44 each
W200 $36 each
W200S $66 each.
Also the smaller FR speakers. I have often wondered about these because you don't read much about them in general compared to Fostex, TB, MA etc. I always figured they must be inferior overall.
DIY kits with Visaton chassis
May designs including FAST here.
BG20 $44 each
W200 $36 each
W200S $66 each.
Also the smaller FR speakers. I have often wondered about these because you don't read much about them in general compared to Fostex, TB, MA etc. I always figured they must be inferior overall.
DIY kits with Visaton chassis
May designs including FAST here.
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You might be able to make your own version with W200S but the XO will have to be developed and can’t just copy the XO I have made. The RS225-8 is a unique driver at any price and is the key to my speaker’s sound. The B80 is a superb fullrange. One of the best - up there with the SS 10F/8424.
I can confirm the B80 being very sweet.
I also ordered through Mouser. Free shipping but I had to wait for a new production, so it took about a month or so.
Nowhere near the sensitivity of the Faitals, though.
I also ordered through Mouser. Free shipping but I had to wait for a new production, so it took about a month or so.
Nowhere near the sensitivity of the Faitals, though.
B80 from Mouser $77AUD.
10f/8424 from online supplier in Australia $150AUD.
Faital has to come from US by the looks.
10f/8424 from online supplier in Australia $150AUD.
Faital has to come from US by the looks.
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I have been reading a bit from XRKs FAST thread. I read one review saying that you need a bit of power to get them going. Might not be the best fit for an 8w Class A.
Faital 4fe32. $108USD for a pair delivered from Parts Express. About $150AUD
Alpair 10.3 $100AUD each locally + shipping
Alpair 10.3 $100AUD each locally + shipping
