Hi everyone, I've been on a speaker building hiatus for a few years but getting back into it
For this new design I'm working on I want to focus on both something that I screwed in the past and something that I really need this time, which is as flat as possible off axis response
I've been searching for drivers for a while now, tweeters, full ranges and BMRs
Something that caught my attention is that most if not all Dayton Audio tweeters have really good off axis response on the datasheet, almost too good to be true
For example comparing the two bellow, the Peerless one becomes a mess off axis after ~12 kHz and at that level it's 10 dB down at 60° compared to on axis, while the Dayton Audio one it's smooth and not even down comparing 60° to on axis
This pattern repeats for many models and this message would never end if I compared every single one I've looked so far, but Dayton always has a response that looks too good to be true and other brands with a not so good response but that looks more realistic, specially off axis
Is Dayton screwing the measurements? (or purpose or not), is the 1/12 smoothing hiding the mess? Doesn't look like since it would still go down on average
Thanks for any insight
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...Silk-Dome-Shielded-Tweeter-275-075?quantity=1
https://www.parts-express.com/Peerless-DX25TG59-04-1-Fabric-Dome-Tweeter-264-1020?quantity=1
For this new design I'm working on I want to focus on both something that I screwed in the past and something that I really need this time, which is as flat as possible off axis response
I've been searching for drivers for a while now, tweeters, full ranges and BMRs
Something that caught my attention is that most if not all Dayton Audio tweeters have really good off axis response on the datasheet, almost too good to be true
For example comparing the two bellow, the Peerless one becomes a mess off axis after ~12 kHz and at that level it's 10 dB down at 60° compared to on axis, while the Dayton Audio one it's smooth and not even down comparing 60° to on axis
This pattern repeats for many models and this message would never end if I compared every single one I've looked so far, but Dayton always has a response that looks too good to be true and other brands with a not so good response but that looks more realistic, specially off axis
Is Dayton screwing the measurements? (or purpose or not), is the 1/12 smoothing hiding the mess? Doesn't look like since it would still go down on average
Thanks for any insight
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...Silk-Dome-Shielded-Tweeter-275-075?quantity=1
https://www.parts-express.com/Peerless-DX25TG59-04-1-Fabric-Dome-Tweeter-264-1020?quantity=1
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The Dayton get a lot of coverage from diyers. Given the aquastion process that PE goes thru to get the Dayton parts made i would expect some variability in the quality of the factory specifications.
dave
dave
I wouldn't trust most if the Dayton specs based on how loose the QC is. I don't like the smoothing eithe, which can hide alof of stuff off axis.
Their batch to batch variance is wide. I've bought dayton drivers from various batches which sometimes measured quite differently. Their tweeters are all over the place.
Thanks guys
I will look at other brands and see if there is something that fits my requirements, else time for a new plan
I've built Curt Campbell's "Tritrix" MTMs, which use this tweeter (DC28F) and they're very good sounding speakers. I used several Dayton drivers before the A$ went down the toilet - DC28F, DC130, DC160 and RS180P - and have been happy with them.
I don't have any measuring equipment except my ears, which only run to about 10,000 Hz anyway so off-axis above that doesn't matter. I do notice a fall off in upper frequencies from that tweeter if I'm moving around instead of sitting.
However, I think there are better tweeters for the money from SB Acoustics and Vifa/Peerless, as the Dayton has crept up in price over the years, particularly in Australia.
Geoff
I don't have any measuring equipment except my ears, which only run to about 10,000 Hz anyway so off-axis above that doesn't matter. I do notice a fall off in upper frequencies from that tweeter if I'm moving around instead of sitting.
However, I think there are better tweeters for the money from SB Acoustics and Vifa/Peerless, as the Dayton has crept up in price over the years, particularly in Australia.
Geoff
I like that they provide this data, as it can help when selecting them to use. You could use it in a design, but many would rather to put it in their box first then remeasure it, and probably at different angles. However, these could still be used with simulated baffles and interpolated angles.
Thanks for the feedback
And yeah, I agree, my latest speaker from a few years ago sounds awesome, it's the best sounding speaker I've made this far, specially due to the care there is on the DSP design, but without holding back, it sucks off axis, which for it's purpose is no good since it's a speaker I and others listen never on axis and always from moving locations
Its really noticeable when listening to it and moving around even at less than 45° off axis
I've set as a challenge to myself to make a new one much improved all around, the bass section is solved already, but the making it sound good off-axis not yet
This is the response from 0° to 90°
And this is the speaker is question
Design:
Test:
Nice job on that finished project. The response looks decent over all. The only thing I can see that may be an issue is the roughness in the 2-5k range which could be hard on the ears over a while. I'd try to smooth that out a little and you'd have s winner.
Thanks a lot, definitely there is room to optimize it, unfortunately I committed the biggest DIY mistake, I put it all together for an initial listen, and never went back to tweak it, there is a pair of bookshelves I made some 10 years ago on my desk besides me that are still on the bare MDF due to the same mistake lol
The improvement will come in the new version, which I will start a thread here in a while both to share the journey and also to get suggestions and feedback
The improvement will come in the new version, which I will start a thread here in a while both to share the journey and also to get suggestions and feedback
The datasheets have more smoothing.
But the FRD files they provide have less and
honest enough
Yeah the price isnt marked up as much as other brands.
people cant accept the performance.
Like any tweeter moving up to 3rd or 4th order filters
and crossing high. Performance even better.
But they have silk and metal domes with Fs into
700 Hz so they can be crossed low to 6.5"
But the FRD files they provide have less and
honest enough
Yeah the price isnt marked up as much as other brands.
people cant accept the performance.
Like any tweeter moving up to 3rd or 4th order filters
and crossing high. Performance even better.
But they have silk and metal domes with Fs into
700 Hz so they can be crossed low to 6.5"
The DC28F was crossed at around 1700Hz in Dennis Murphy's "Affordable Accuracy Monitor", which was/is the Parts Express Dayton BR-1 kit with Dennis' new crossover to clean up the sound.
The BR-1 uses the Dayton DC160 "Classic" 6.5" mid woofer.
Geoff
The BR-1 uses the Dayton DC160 "Classic" 6.5" mid woofer.
Geoff
There's a ton of competition in the 1 inch soft dome market. The Dayton silk domes have sorr of fallen out of that budget price point compared to some other SB and Peerless models. Even the 20 dollar Hivi Q1R is a worthy contender.
DC28F is budget tweeter.
If you crossover to Max 4" mid
And 3 to 2 inches being ideal.
With small mid, crossover is at 3K
on a 3rd or 4th order.
Staying high and steep filter
Remove most common 3k distortion
of many tweeters.
Being that now days wideband
with no tweet is acceaptable.
Cleaning up the topend at 3K even 4k
on a steep filter. Can be
rather clean sound for 20 bucks.
If you crossover to Max 4" mid
And 3 to 2 inches being ideal.
With small mid, crossover is at 3K
on a 3rd or 4th order.
Staying high and steep filter
Remove most common 3k distortion
of many tweeters.
Being that now days wideband
with no tweet is acceaptable.
Cleaning up the topend at 3K even 4k
on a steep filter. Can be
rather clean sound for 20 bucks.
OP, if i compare "like for like data", the curves are similar:
from the data given we can only compare 0deg and -30deg curves
from the data given we can only compare up to 20KHz
so, looking at the -30deg curves up to 20KHz they are quite similar.
from the data given we can only compare 0deg and -30deg curves
from the data given we can only compare up to 20KHz
so, looking at the -30deg curves up to 20KHz they are quite similar.
Unfortunately the DC28F is now around A$45-$50, so the value isn't what it used to be; when I built my Tritrix it was A$30.
That said, there are many reportedly good sounding projects which use it, so if you have a pair, you might as well use them. Some like their sound, others don't but the plastic surround with only three screws, plus the sticky dome material, could be factors in deciding whether you use them.
My understanding from various chat fora is that Dayton's supplied frd and zma files are pretty accurate - measured under its conditions of course - and not in the customer's cabinets.
Geoff
That said, there are many reportedly good sounding projects which use it, so if you have a pair, you might as well use them. Some like their sound, others don't but the plastic surround with only three screws, plus the sticky dome material, could be factors in deciding whether you use them.
My understanding from various chat fora is that Dayton's supplied frd and zma files are pretty accurate - measured under its conditions of course - and not in the customer's cabinets.
Geoff