I am sure the UBiB will make the same impact as it did for the 1121 when I swapped out the LT3042 in the 5V. I found the soundstage opened up.
In a gainclone my preference was BG STD 1000uF with BG N 100uF.
Based on my experience with NOS TDA1543, I like BG FK 2200uF before regulator and BG N 10-47uF after the regulator (bypassed with BG NX 0.1uF); 1000uF after the regulator is IMO way too much.
You may also remove those chokes from LT3042 board, the circuit might sound better without them. I was using similar chokes in my NOS DAC, but later got rid of them.
BTW, where can I get some of those Ultrabib pcbs, I had to built mine p2p and modding them is not convenient.
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Thanks for the advise...I will try this...would you think that a 40uF MKP maybe an option as well ? Got a box of Vishay1848 here...obviously they have a far lower esr than lytics....which sometimes is NOT a good thing as Salas stated for his regs where there must be a bit higher ESR in the last cap to keep them stabile.
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Why all this focus on esr.? That only matters at the impedance minimum, which in the case of the discussed caps is mostly well above the audio range. Impedance in the audio range and the usual parameters of dielectric absorption etc matter most, and that's just a dielectric choice.
That has been my original thinking as well, until I read the manual of the Ultrabib and saw that Salas want the ESR for his reg in a certain range...LT3042 maybe completely different...so I will try the MkP...fits into the uF rang Peter suggested and has the by far superior dialektikum...and I got them for 2Euro/piece
True, but this has any importance only about the cap on board. Any length of connecting wires will relax the expectations of "not too low esr", so what you have on the dac's pcb cannot in any way affect the regulator stability.
Ok, so I couldn't resist and removed the ceramic caps for Vref at my 1121 board. Initially I soldered 3000uf of polymer caps in addition to them, which made things much better already. Well....PD, Blitz and many others are absolutely right, the supply to the Vref is absolutely critical for the performance of this dac.
I only had some 100uf Nichicon KZ at hand and put them in instead of all other caps. For me this is by far the biggest change in sound, and in my ears a very good one. As by the others described above, everything sounds more natural, this slightly technical, constricted and harsh signature is almost completely gone.
Interesting, that the bass actually became fuller in contrary to my assumption, it would be less with less capacitance. Resolution increased, micro detail also, I hear things I never heard with this dac.
Before it always tried to impress, now it is expressive.
I don't know if the bass is to my liking, I have to try some different caps at this point. It is a little wooly and pronounces the upper bass region somehow, before the very deep bass was more present.
But apart from that, for me it finally does what I expected from the beginning, it makes music and let me relax while listening, which didn't happen before.
And, maybe ceramic caps are better from an engineering point of view and also measure better. But I can't listen to a scope...
Don't get me wrong, I am happy that Soeren designed that thing, which I and most of us are not able to do. But as it looks, it is is not nearly as good sounding as it can do with careful choice of power supply and parts.
I don't like the prices and upgrade system of Audionote, but they really do listen to their stuff before they put it on the market. Whoever exchanges a simple metal film resistor in a tube circuit grid for a non magnetic tantalum, will be very much surprised what a difference that can be. Measures the same...
So, thanks for encouraging to take the plunge on removing these buggers, now I want to get more of this of course...
Did anyone try some Wima MKS2 at Vref? They come as 10uf, very small footprint, so 20uf of foil cap is possible per string.
Other option is Kasei, I was thinking about 100uf there.
Any other suggestions?
I only had some 100uf Nichicon KZ at hand and put them in instead of all other caps. For me this is by far the biggest change in sound, and in my ears a very good one. As by the others described above, everything sounds more natural, this slightly technical, constricted and harsh signature is almost completely gone.
Interesting, that the bass actually became fuller in contrary to my assumption, it would be less with less capacitance. Resolution increased, micro detail also, I hear things I never heard with this dac.
Before it always tried to impress, now it is expressive.
I don't know if the bass is to my liking, I have to try some different caps at this point. It is a little wooly and pronounces the upper bass region somehow, before the very deep bass was more present.
But apart from that, for me it finally does what I expected from the beginning, it makes music and let me relax while listening, which didn't happen before.
And, maybe ceramic caps are better from an engineering point of view and also measure better. But I can't listen to a scope...
Don't get me wrong, I am happy that Soeren designed that thing, which I and most of us are not able to do. But as it looks, it is is not nearly as good sounding as it can do with careful choice of power supply and parts.
I don't like the prices and upgrade system of Audionote, but they really do listen to their stuff before they put it on the market. Whoever exchanges a simple metal film resistor in a tube circuit grid for a non magnetic tantalum, will be very much surprised what a difference that can be. Measures the same...
So, thanks for encouraging to take the plunge on removing these buggers, now I want to get more of this of course...
Did anyone try some Wima MKS2 at Vref? They come as 10uf, very small footprint, so 20uf of foil cap is possible per string.
Other option is Kasei, I was thinking about 100uf there.
Any other suggestions?
Not sure if this indicates you agree or disagree with the opinion above
If it's technically correct then it' s about flavor.
Jogi,
Glad you liked it and you join the party...I am very happy with the Mundorf smooth foil currently...did you try the mod getting the 4700uF away and apply your external reg directly into their pads as well ? Big jump in clarity and dynamics...
I will play with caps as well...a 1uF MkP has about the same ESR as a 100uF lytic...but much better HF behavior and much better dialecticum...I would not be surprised if this would even be an option...and the 25uF I mentioned goes down to the 10mohm Soekris wanted to see...
My next thought is: If stuff is so sensitive as we experienced...what is the chain around it ? Those caps are...fed by the opa365s...and that one is kind of fed by....the Lm431 as a Vref source, right ?
Hmmm...so what about going back to the source...what if a Tentlabs Shuntreg, a Salas Digital D reg or a battery would give the Vref instead a LM431 ? Should be easy to try ... Lm431 out, battery like 26650 in....no ?
And guys, lets be clear: This is about having fun and sharing (completely subjective) impressions. I would never critizise Soekris for his design choices, nobody of us could have done his job.
Glad you liked it and you join the party...I am very happy with the Mundorf smooth foil currently...did you try the mod getting the 4700uF away and apply your external reg directly into their pads as well ? Big jump in clarity and dynamics...
I will play with caps as well...a 1uF MkP has about the same ESR as a 100uF lytic...but much better HF behavior and much better dialecticum...I would not be surprised if this would even be an option...and the 25uF I mentioned goes down to the 10mohm Soekris wanted to see...
My next thought is: If stuff is so sensitive as we experienced...what is the chain around it ? Those caps are...fed by the opa365s...and that one is kind of fed by....the Lm431 as a Vref source, right ?
Hmmm...so what about going back to the source...what if a Tentlabs Shuntreg, a Salas Digital D reg or a battery would give the Vref instead a LM431 ? Should be easy to try ... Lm431 out, battery like 26650 in....no ?
And guys, lets be clear: This is about having fun and sharing (completely subjective) impressions. I would never critizise Soekris for his design choices, nobody of us could have done his job.
I don't have the 1941, it is the 1121 OEM board, which has to be supplied by external regs, +-5v for analog supply and +5v for digital. I am using Salas 1.2 regs, good enough for me so far.
Of course I am tempted like you to apply 3.8V from Salas shunt directly to the registers, but as Soeren pointed out several times, these voltages should be spot on, or distortion increases. This should be better than all caps we can try, but I am a little bit afraid to kill the board, as I did before with a 1021.
Maybe I just order some10uf Mks2 first, they are only around 1€ a pop.
I was not aware, that those caps are after the on board regs, that makes them extremely important of course.
Also every little change is more audible now, I changed one current setting resistor in one shunt, and I was surprised that I can hear a difference.
Of course I am tempted like you to apply 3.8V from Salas shunt directly to the registers, but as Soeren pointed out several times, these voltages should be spot on, or distortion increases. This should be better than all caps we can try, but I am a little bit afraid to kill the board, as I did before with a 1021.
Maybe I just order some10uf Mks2 first, they are only around 1€ a pop.
I was not aware, that those caps are after the on board regs, that makes them extremely important of course.
Also every little change is more audible now, I changed one current setting resistor in one shunt, and I was surprised that I can hear a difference.
TNT, either you are a watcher or a player...they made a movie about this
YouTube
...and I agree with Analog_SA...MKS sounds like not as such a nice idea. If cheap, MkP10 at least, Maybe Mundorf Evo, better Smaller value of Supreme or Silver/oil if you want to spend money and if you want to get serious Miflex KPCu1, which are huge, or some Jupiter....low cost alternative in lytic was the ones I used and you would be surprised how good they are...I got from previous projects most of those guys here and will see which one does what, but I do this step by step and let a configuration settle when I like what I hear, so that this does not become a psycho-game, and you learn whats going on before moving on.
YouTube
...and I agree with Analog_SA...MKS sounds like not as such a nice idea. If cheap, MkP10 at least, Maybe Mundorf Evo, better Smaller value of Supreme or Silver/oil if you want to spend money and if you want to get serious Miflex KPCu1, which are huge, or some Jupiter....low cost alternative in lytic was the ones I used and you would be surprised how good they are...I got from previous projects most of those guys here and will see which one does what, but I do this step by step and let a configuration settle when I like what I hear, so that this does not become a psycho-game, and you learn whats going on before moving on.
I was thinking of MKS2 for exactly the reason analog_sa mentioned, it is size, and it is a film cap. I would never use these as couplers, but in my experience even the cheapest foil caps are better in PSU than any lytic. Also than BG, which I never liked.
The dac board is very small, as are the smt solder pads, so I don't want to put stress on these pads, and there is no space for big caps in the box.
@TNT: I remember you being reluctant to kick out the terrible ceramic filter cap at the output, and how pleased you were after you finally did it.
This modification is doing the same, but much much more of it. Before I was intending to sell this dac, not anymore. That's the difference...
The dac board is very small, as are the smt solder pads, so I don't want to put stress on these pads, and there is no space for big caps in the box.
@TNT: I remember you being reluctant to kick out the terrible ceramic filter cap at the output, and how pleased you were after you finally did it.
This modification is doing the same, but much much more of it. Before I was intending to sell this dac, not anymore. That's the difference...