Capacitors of the Ordinal and Dacapo are the same stock, eventually they all will fail.
Dacapo has a more sophisticated 1bit converter , designed by John Westlake, while the Ordinal has the standard Philips Dac7.
There were 3 filters on ebay a couple og days ago,, but they rarely are for sale.
Dear77, seems you are a skilled guy. If you will manage to repair your ordinal, keep in contact with me, in case my Dacapo will fail 🙂🙂🙂
Loris
Dacapo has a more sophisticated 1bit converter , designed by John Westlake, while the Ordinal has the standard Philips Dac7.
There were 3 filters on ebay a couple og days ago,, but they rarely are for sale.
Dear77, seems you are a skilled guy. If you will manage to repair your ordinal, keep in contact with me, in case my Dacapo will fail 🙂🙂🙂
Loris
This thread has prompted me to change the capacitors on the DaCapo, I used the FM series from Panasonic. I was puzzled that there was no signs of leakage anywhere but the capacitors removed are marked SXE not SME.
I cannot remember if the filters are interchangeable between the DaCapo and Ordinal but on the DaCapo I have heard all of them and I thought the 18 and 22 bit were the best and I could not tell them apart, the 1307 was interesting, sounded good but I preferred the 18 and 22bit, a friend also bought a DaCapo and preferred the 1307 so its down to taste. The 20 bit I did not really like at all, I mentioned this to Pink and they said the 18 and 22 bit filters came from the same manufacturer.
As regards to the DaCapo and Ordinal I thought the DacCapo sounded much better. It does not use the TDA1547 but an SAA7350 plus some Westlake spells which he may tell us about if we ask nicely. Good luck fixing the Ordinal.
thank you for replying to my post; when it comes to the caps, Ill try rubycons first; when it comes to the filters, Im wondering why there are 2 converters types marked on my filter- SAA7350 and YM3414. I assume that the YM ones are Yamaha. I saw a few filters on ebay lately- one of them was 20/24 bits and Im not sure if its 20 or 24 bits one. Im also wondering whats the difference between Yamaha 18 bit and Yamaha 22 bit and if SAA7350 is same in both and they only differ in YM? Im akso not very familiar with the whole master clock and clock lock business and dont really know if my Oridinal is any of those. And one last question- is the 18 bit filter the only one based on 2 chips cause as far as I can see its label is the only one saying that. Thx 🙂
Well looks like I am gonna have to sell my boxes due to a change in circumstances....
Will wait a few months till people have got over their Christmas bills then list on ebay. However, if anyone on here is interested they are welcome to contact me....
1x Cardinal Transport with remote (boxed),
1x Da-Capo Dac (boxed)
1x DC PSU with good batteries and PSU card for Da-Capo (boxed)
Da-capo comes with the following;
1x HDCD filter (as can be seen in this thread the best filter to have)
1x Clock lock input card for connection with cardinal
1x co-ax input Card
1x Optical input Card
There was an earlier issue where I got white noise after units had been powered up for a few weeks as will be seen earlier in this thread. This issue has happily gone away since I changed amplifier and has not returned in the 8-12 months I have had the new amp.
Cheers
John
Will wait a few months till people have got over their Christmas bills then list on ebay. However, if anyone on here is interested they are welcome to contact me....
1x Cardinal Transport with remote (boxed),
1x Da-Capo Dac (boxed)
1x DC PSU with good batteries and PSU card for Da-Capo (boxed)
Da-capo comes with the following;
1x HDCD filter (as can be seen in this thread the best filter to have)
1x Clock lock input card for connection with cardinal
1x co-ax input Card
1x Optical input Card
There was an earlier issue where I got white noise after units had been powered up for a few weeks as will be seen earlier in this thread. This issue has happily gone away since I changed amplifier and has not returned in the 8-12 months I have had the new amp.
Cheers
John
HDCD is best filter to go for as it is the PMD100 chip and is a good site better than all the others.
The clock lock was a specific input card designed to go with the cardinal transport (though signal could theoretically be used for other items) so instead of one cable between DAC and transport there were 2 (1 to bring digital music data from transport and 1 to provide clock to transport from DAC) - so it's likely if you just have dac and the input card only has one connection you do not have clock lock.
Hope this helps
John
Hi there guys,
Now that we are into 2010, I was just wondering about the MDAC and when its likely arrival to the shores of the UK might be? Are the first batch completed and 'on the water', is the manufacturing still being completed, can any more information about them be released?
Cheers!
The Moog
Now that we are into 2010, I was just wondering about the MDAC and when its likely arrival to the shores of the UK might be? Are the first batch completed and 'on the water', is the manufacturing still being completed, can any more information about them be released?
Cheers!
The Moog
Hi,
Happy belated New Year to all,
Well I guess its official now (so I can finally post more openly) the AudioLab 8200CD has been launched at CES.
The AudioLab 8200CD can be considered an MDAC integrated with a CD transport. I would have personally called it the 8200DAC/CD. Its more “DAC” then CD player - just so happens to have a Clock-Locked CD attached
As the MDAC, the 8200CD DAC section supports Async 96KHz, 24Bits USB, 192 KHz Coax + Optical inputs. Like MDAC, the 8200CD has both SE and Balance Analogue outputs, what it lacks is the MDAC’s Analogue line level Pre-Amplifier, and Headphone amplifier – these are supported by the 8200CDQ (to be launched soon).
Where as the MDAC is intended to be a standalone DAC more at home with a PC system (by this I mean its footprint - NOT audio Quality), the 8200CD is in the more standard AudioLab “Hi-Fi” 420mm wide format.
The MDAC will be second on the production line – it was determined…… that the 8200CD was the more important product to be launched first (to complete the revamped AudioLab 8200 range).
John
Happy belated New Year to all,
Well I guess its official now (so I can finally post more openly) the AudioLab 8200CD has been launched at CES.
The AudioLab 8200CD can be considered an MDAC integrated with a CD transport. I would have personally called it the 8200DAC/CD. Its more “DAC” then CD player - just so happens to have a Clock-Locked CD attached
As the MDAC, the 8200CD DAC section supports Async 96KHz, 24Bits USB, 192 KHz Coax + Optical inputs. Like MDAC, the 8200CD has both SE and Balance Analogue outputs, what it lacks is the MDAC’s Analogue line level Pre-Amplifier, and Headphone amplifier – these are supported by the 8200CDQ (to be launched soon).
Where as the MDAC is intended to be a standalone DAC more at home with a PC system (by this I mean its footprint - NOT audio Quality), the 8200CD is in the more standard AudioLab “Hi-Fi” 420mm wide format.
The MDAC will be second on the production line – it was determined…… that the 8200CD was the more important product to be launched first (to complete the revamped AudioLab 8200 range).
John
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Hi Loris,
I'm always working on Dac related products 🙂 But ATM I'm completing the "paperwork" for the 8200CD/Q & MDAC projects for AudioLab - Paperwork kills me 🙁 The 8200CDQ has over 1700 components with close to 250,000uF of PSU decoupling alone!!! over 90 IC's, and over 140 transistors!
We (Dominik and myself) designed the Peachtree Audio Nova, and just launched Decco2 / iDecco - the World’s 1st Tube Hybrid Integrated Amp with “Pure Digital” iPod Dock (thats not my marketing statement) 😉 . The iDecco has a Digital Apple iPod Dock (like the Wadia) So Apple's internal DAC's are bypassed - The DAC sections in Nova / Decco2 are much higher quality then the Dacapo's. Time, while it has been very kind, has moved on..
http://signalpathint.com/index.php/iDecco/idecco2.html
The Nova won stereophiles budget product of the year, also other top awards (I cannot say with who until they are published).
http://signalpathint.com/images/stories/pdf/Stereophile.pdf
Yes - and also our DAC will be launched, the original DAC I designed to be launched under my own brand became the AudioLab MDAC... So it was quite hard to find ways to improve - but we believe we have 🙂
John
I'm always working on Dac related products 🙂 But ATM I'm completing the "paperwork" for the 8200CD/Q & MDAC projects for AudioLab - Paperwork kills me 🙁 The 8200CDQ has over 1700 components with close to 250,000uF of PSU decoupling alone!!! over 90 IC's, and over 140 transistors!
We (Dominik and myself) designed the Peachtree Audio Nova, and just launched Decco2 / iDecco - the World’s 1st Tube Hybrid Integrated Amp with “Pure Digital” iPod Dock (thats not my marketing statement) 😉 . The iDecco has a Digital Apple iPod Dock (like the Wadia) So Apple's internal DAC's are bypassed - The DAC sections in Nova / Decco2 are much higher quality then the Dacapo's. Time, while it has been very kind, has moved on..
http://signalpathint.com/index.php/iDecco/idecco2.html
The Nova won stereophiles budget product of the year, also other top awards (I cannot say with who until they are published).
http://signalpathint.com/images/stories/pdf/Stereophile.pdf
Yes - and also our DAC will be launched, the original DAC I designed to be launched under my own brand became the AudioLab MDAC... So it was quite hard to find ways to improve - but we believe we have 🙂
John
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''''it was determined''''
Lol, should read, ''when asked desperate dealers agreed that selling one more cd player no one needed was more important than migrating the same customers away from dedicated hifi hardware by selling the better quality DAC first''
You gotta love asking the dealers what's the more important product, you would think Audiolab would take one look at the volume the Squeezebox sells and just make the right decision...
I continue to look forward to its impending arrival John.
Lol, should read, ''when asked desperate dealers agreed that selling one more cd player no one needed was more important than migrating the same customers away from dedicated hifi hardware by selling the better quality DAC first''
You gotta love asking the dealers what's the more important product, you would think Audiolab would take one look at the volume the Squeezebox sells and just make the right decision...
I continue to look forward to its impending arrival John.
Hi John,
Great news about the MDAC, and while I'm a bit disappointed it's second on the conveyor, I understand Audiolab's thinking. What's another month or three--it all adds to the anticipation, eh?
While you're on the subject of paperwork, how will support of the MDAC's firmware and USB software drivers work? If it's not sensitive info, do you sell the design and code 'as is', or are you both (Dominik in particular) contracted for maintenance?
Nathaniel
Great news about the MDAC, and while I'm a bit disappointed it's second on the conveyor, I understand Audiolab's thinking. What's another month or three--it all adds to the anticipation, eh?
While you're on the subject of paperwork, how will support of the MDAC's firmware and USB software drivers work? If it's not sensitive info, do you sell the design and code 'as is', or are you both (Dominik in particular) contracted for maintenance?
Nathaniel
Hi SQ,
As I work with AudioLab Pls. understand that I have to be “political” with my answers.
AudioLab is a typical legacy Hi-Fi brand, and needs to reinvent itself and find its place in today’s rapidly changing Digital Media world. At some levels within AudioLab there is the understanding that there has to be change, but unfortunately the vision might not be as clear (and there are many complicated levels…), there’s as vastly different culture and thus market understanding between Asia and the Western world, what might be clearly apparent to us in Europe / US, does not seem to be seen or comprehended back in China.
However, that said I have been given the chance (or maybe I should say I’ve had to sometimes fight) to produce products that from experience I strongly believe will succeed. Unfortunately, I’m not the best team player (OK I’m probably the VERY worst team player), and my confrontational manner on matters that I strongly believe in makes many enemies within a culture where you’re expected to “follow the line” without questioning…
Unfortunately, (as you all know on this thread) it’s taken me much longer to get this first batch of products out into production – this has not helped my standing… I’m sure if my designs for AudioLab where already in the market, there would now be a better understanding within AudioLab, so once again the fault lays with me.
I have no question that the products will have a great following once released, but the great unknown will be Audiolab’s ability to transform itself to understand the products and market them in the correct direction. Unfortunately as in any culture, sometimes the people, who have the most honest things to say, are the ones that nobody wants to hear.
So yes, some miss-steps might be taken, however I know that once the MDAC and CDQ reach the market, sales will speak for themselves, and the light will shine. Whether or not I will still be around at these moments of recognition is probably unlikely (and nor will anyone wish to recognise my input), at the end of the day, I’m very much my own worst enemy.
I totally agree with your train of thought, however the decision to place CD8200 ahead of MDAC had little to do with dealers directly, rather then the need to have a CD player to complement the new 8200 Series, which is a revamp of the original 8000 series. The CD players are a ground up design – well ok, it started out as the MDAC (which in itself was originally designed as my Mephisto DAC), reconfigured clock distribution, added CD servo section & onboard PSU.
While I understand the need for a “legacy” type CD player I pushed strongly to add the Digital inputs & USB, that’s why I rather consider the 8200CD to be Primarily a DAC, but with a CD servo section for legacy playback of CD’s. However the product I really stood out and “forced into play” was the 8200CDQ, not only is this a high-end DAC with USB and CD transport, but also features Line level Analogue inputs, preamplifier and headphone amplifier.
The MDAC on the other hand, is targeted at a completely new market sector for AudioLab, I’m not sure how the current dealers will approach it – I suspect your guess follows my own. However this is a much bigger and more active market – so despite many hardships and battles trying to steer though the objections “Hats Off” to AudioLab for allowing the MDAC to be launched under its brand – one that will open it many new doors.
Nathaniel,
As we all know, any product that must support multiple operating systems and across multiple hardware platforms (and has to go anywhere near a MS product) is asking for its share of issues. We have already considered this, Dominik & I designed the 8200CD (Q) and MDAC to be upgradeable via its USB port exactly for this reason. Should (and likely when) issues are found, it will be a simple matter of downloading new firmware from AudioLab’s website, and upgrading via USB. Upgrades could also be offered to increase performance and features, not just as “Bug Fixes”.
The Async 96Khz / 24B USB software was originally developed for our own Mephisto DAC, and we will still be releasing an updated variant. We also use the same core code on the other products we have (and will) design for other brands. Even if we where to stop working directly with AudioLab, we would continue to support our designs. I personally standby any product I design – when I design a product it’s like a child – personal, and its in our own interest to insure that any product that bares our names as the designers is not left in the cold and unsupported.
So we could continue software support directly (it does not take much to post updated firmware on a website) – if for some reason AudioLab could not.
John
As I work with AudioLab Pls. understand that I have to be “political” with my answers.
AudioLab is a typical legacy Hi-Fi brand, and needs to reinvent itself and find its place in today’s rapidly changing Digital Media world. At some levels within AudioLab there is the understanding that there has to be change, but unfortunately the vision might not be as clear (and there are many complicated levels…), there’s as vastly different culture and thus market understanding between Asia and the Western world, what might be clearly apparent to us in Europe / US, does not seem to be seen or comprehended back in China.
However, that said I have been given the chance (or maybe I should say I’ve had to sometimes fight) to produce products that from experience I strongly believe will succeed. Unfortunately, I’m not the best team player (OK I’m probably the VERY worst team player), and my confrontational manner on matters that I strongly believe in makes many enemies within a culture where you’re expected to “follow the line” without questioning…
Unfortunately, (as you all know on this thread) it’s taken me much longer to get this first batch of products out into production – this has not helped my standing… I’m sure if my designs for AudioLab where already in the market, there would now be a better understanding within AudioLab, so once again the fault lays with me.
I have no question that the products will have a great following once released, but the great unknown will be Audiolab’s ability to transform itself to understand the products and market them in the correct direction. Unfortunately as in any culture, sometimes the people, who have the most honest things to say, are the ones that nobody wants to hear.
So yes, some miss-steps might be taken, however I know that once the MDAC and CDQ reach the market, sales will speak for themselves, and the light will shine. Whether or not I will still be around at these moments of recognition is probably unlikely (and nor will anyone wish to recognise my input), at the end of the day, I’m very much my own worst enemy.
I totally agree with your train of thought, however the decision to place CD8200 ahead of MDAC had little to do with dealers directly, rather then the need to have a CD player to complement the new 8200 Series, which is a revamp of the original 8000 series. The CD players are a ground up design – well ok, it started out as the MDAC (which in itself was originally designed as my Mephisto DAC), reconfigured clock distribution, added CD servo section & onboard PSU.
While I understand the need for a “legacy” type CD player I pushed strongly to add the Digital inputs & USB, that’s why I rather consider the 8200CD to be Primarily a DAC, but with a CD servo section for legacy playback of CD’s. However the product I really stood out and “forced into play” was the 8200CDQ, not only is this a high-end DAC with USB and CD transport, but also features Line level Analogue inputs, preamplifier and headphone amplifier.
The MDAC on the other hand, is targeted at a completely new market sector for AudioLab, I’m not sure how the current dealers will approach it – I suspect your guess follows my own. However this is a much bigger and more active market – so despite many hardships and battles trying to steer though the objections “Hats Off” to AudioLab for allowing the MDAC to be launched under its brand – one that will open it many new doors.
Nathaniel,
As we all know, any product that must support multiple operating systems and across multiple hardware platforms (and has to go anywhere near a MS product) is asking for its share of issues. We have already considered this, Dominik & I designed the 8200CD (Q) and MDAC to be upgradeable via its USB port exactly for this reason. Should (and likely when) issues are found, it will be a simple matter of downloading new firmware from AudioLab’s website, and upgrading via USB. Upgrades could also be offered to increase performance and features, not just as “Bug Fixes”.
The Async 96Khz / 24B USB software was originally developed for our own Mephisto DAC, and we will still be releasing an updated variant. We also use the same core code on the other products we have (and will) design for other brands. Even if we where to stop working directly with AudioLab, we would continue to support our designs. I personally standby any product I design – when I design a product it’s like a child – personal, and its in our own interest to insure that any product that bares our names as the designers is not left in the cold and unsupported.
So we could continue software support directly (it does not take much to post updated firmware on a website) – if for some reason AudioLab could not.
John
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John I understand your tempered response. Being in charge of marketing for the multinational I work for means I not only sometimes have to work with ideas I disapprove of, but I have to make sure everyone else sticks to the hymn sheet as well. It's never easy being political and the fact that Audiolab, a hifi company, have chosen to make the MDAC, a PC solution, at all speaks volumes about your commitment to the design.
Obviously the US and Europe have a lead on the ROW in terms of the swap over to PC based audio server solutions. My exposure to the depth and breadth of the available solutions out there lead me to believe that it is the way forward. There will never be another uncompressed high-bandwidth hard-copy audio format, like CD, so it's inevitable in the long run that the spinning optical disc is somewhat doomed.
Here's hoping they are all incredibly successful and that Audiolab welcomes you back once it's time to do it all again.
Obviously the US and Europe have a lead on the ROW in terms of the swap over to PC based audio server solutions. My exposure to the depth and breadth of the available solutions out there lead me to believe that it is the way forward. There will never be another uncompressed high-bandwidth hard-copy audio format, like CD, so it's inevitable in the long run that the spinning optical disc is somewhat doomed.
Here's hoping they are all incredibly successful and that Audiolab welcomes you back once it's time to do it all again.
Have they not heard of striking while the iron is hot?
There are lots of DAC/Preamps coming out, Did they not look at the success of the Benchmark and Dacmagic? Did they not realise many people who are using digital as a source are using a computer?
Ive become disillusioned with the whole "Legacy" thing tbh (even though i run a Dac, preamp, active crossover and four monoblocks) When you listen to something like Event Opals running from a DAW and realise what price they are, it makes a lot of hifi seem very silly indeed.
Come on John, bring out your own DAC!
There are lots of DAC/Preamps coming out, Did they not look at the success of the Benchmark and Dacmagic? Did they not realise many people who are using digital as a source are using a computer?
Ive become disillusioned with the whole "Legacy" thing tbh (even though i run a Dac, preamp, active crossover and four monoblocks) When you listen to something like Event Opals running from a DAW and realise what price they are, it makes a lot of hifi seem very silly indeed.
Come on John, bring out your own DAC!
Hi John,
Assuming I do not require the pre-amp function, does the 8000CD (when used as a DAC) have any disadvantages when compared to the MDAC in terms of digital connectivity/upgradability/sound quality ?
My interest originally was in a straight replacement for the DaCapo, but since my old PT Cardinal CD transport doesn't support optical, and clock-locking it to the MDAC was always going to be a probem, I'm actually wondering if the 8200CD is the better solution for me.
I currently use a music streamer that does not have a clock-in option (a squeezbox), but when I replace it, an important criteria will be the ability to clock-lock with the DAC.
For me, would you recommend the 8000CD, or should I wait for MDAC ?
Thanks in advance!
Tim
Assuming I do not require the pre-amp function, does the 8000CD (when used as a DAC) have any disadvantages when compared to the MDAC in terms of digital connectivity/upgradability/sound quality ?
My interest originally was in a straight replacement for the DaCapo, but since my old PT Cardinal CD transport doesn't support optical, and clock-locking it to the MDAC was always going to be a probem, I'm actually wondering if the 8200CD is the better solution for me.
I currently use a music streamer that does not have a clock-in option (a squeezbox), but when I replace it, an important criteria will be the ability to clock-lock with the DAC.
For me, would you recommend the 8000CD, or should I wait for MDAC ?
Thanks in advance!
Tim