o dear
da capo getting faulty what a shame could not go back to anything else now. I will have to pull out the Townshend rock ref from storage now and stop being lazy, as I have no other choice.
Faulty - bilateral loss of bass power and distorsion. higher frequencies sound intact. Only occurs after warming up. Definately not worth buying another 2nd hand one. Get the impression a lot of these da capos are failing now!: Too high maintenance, like a finely tuned racing car
da capo getting faulty what a shame could not go back to anything else now. I will have to pull out the Townshend rock ref from storage now and stop being lazy, as I have no other choice.
Faulty - bilateral loss of bass power and distorsion. higher frequencies sound intact. Only occurs after warming up. Definately not worth buying another 2nd hand one. Get the impression a lot of these da capos are failing now!: Too high maintenance, like a finely tuned racing car
Not sue much life left in this thread, but still playing around whilst waiting for the new stuff from John.
The purists out there will hate me.
As my Da Capo was showing signs of strain i decided to do some further mods. This time I tried to bypass the output analogue stage.
I managed to get a signal very close to the first IC next to the DAC can, not sure if I bypassed it though, or if it was acting as an external I/V transformer. Anyway volume output was much reduced so a good sign that i had bypassed some of the stage. Next i amplified/purified the signal through a very simple valve gain stage using 6sn7 tubes with valve rectified voltage input.
It was evident that there was a clarity in the bypassed circuit but it also lacked a dynamic edge the usual DAC output produced. Close contest overall. I next inserted a high quality transformer between the raw analogue-stage by-passed output signal and the valve out put stage. Not sure how it works ??reduces inductance to better match the out put to the valve amplifier stage. However with this in place there was no contest the valve output signal produced a clarity and transparency far beyond the reach of the normal Da Capo output. This was allied to the now much improved dynamics which were more or less matching the original DA Capo sound. So once again a purer simper output stage wins hands down. And I will also tell you what, if you want more distortion more analogue like artificial warmth stick with opamps , as the valve output stage is fundamentally far less coloured and more refined in sound. Now that is a turn up for the books, the complete opposite of what you would expect.
I was getting just a little carried away tonight. As John has been in absolute silence I have restarted my journey for more audio nirvana.
After exhaustive reading on the forums it was becoming apparent that the pioneer stable platter mechs were potentially something special. I bought a PD9700 for £50 and am awaiting the legato linked PDs904 due any day now. As a transport the pioneer matched my discmagic and had an overall slightly warmer more natural tone to my ears albeit slightly less dynamic and exciting sounding. Via the pioneers own analogue outputs quite Frankly i was amazed at how analogue it sounded and in many respects bettered the Da capo. However, it lacked that last ounce of transparency/clarity and detail to outdo the Da CApo. So yes once again I bypassed the analogue output stage and sent the signal straight from the pioneer DAC chip into my impedance matching??? transformer and onto the valve output stage. Goodness me clearer and even better and more refined sounding than the Da Capo/transformer/valve output !!!!!!
The purists out there will hate me.
As my Da Capo was showing signs of strain i decided to do some further mods. This time I tried to bypass the output analogue stage.
I managed to get a signal very close to the first IC next to the DAC can, not sure if I bypassed it though, or if it was acting as an external I/V transformer. Anyway volume output was much reduced so a good sign that i had bypassed some of the stage. Next i amplified/purified the signal through a very simple valve gain stage using 6sn7 tubes with valve rectified voltage input.
It was evident that there was a clarity in the bypassed circuit but it also lacked a dynamic edge the usual DAC output produced. Close contest overall. I next inserted a high quality transformer between the raw analogue-stage by-passed output signal and the valve out put stage. Not sure how it works ??reduces inductance to better match the out put to the valve amplifier stage. However with this in place there was no contest the valve output signal produced a clarity and transparency far beyond the reach of the normal Da Capo output. This was allied to the now much improved dynamics which were more or less matching the original DA Capo sound. So once again a purer simper output stage wins hands down. And I will also tell you what, if you want more distortion more analogue like artificial warmth stick with opamps , as the valve output stage is fundamentally far less coloured and more refined in sound. Now that is a turn up for the books, the complete opposite of what you would expect.
I was getting just a little carried away tonight. As John has been in absolute silence I have restarted my journey for more audio nirvana.
After exhaustive reading on the forums it was becoming apparent that the pioneer stable platter mechs were potentially something special. I bought a PD9700 for £50 and am awaiting the legato linked PDs904 due any day now. As a transport the pioneer matched my discmagic and had an overall slightly warmer more natural tone to my ears albeit slightly less dynamic and exciting sounding. Via the pioneers own analogue outputs quite Frankly i was amazed at how analogue it sounded and in many respects bettered the Da capo. However, it lacked that last ounce of transparency/clarity and detail to outdo the Da CApo. So yes once again I bypassed the analogue output stage and sent the signal straight from the pioneer DAC chip into my impedance matching??? transformer and onto the valve output stage. Goodness me clearer and even better and more refined sounding than the Da Capo/transformer/valve output !!!!!!
Ok one final update having further improved the pd9700 as a transport (biggest gains were from changing the caps associated with the clock and its power supply dc/dc converter). Messing around with the digital output caps made very little difference! The DACApo DAC this time took a big leap ahead of the pd2028!! Hence the transport was the limiting and determining factor in the end.
I could not escape the fact that the da capo through the improved transport was superior in every way now. Just so much more real and palpable. Shame on me for even thinking for one moment that the pioneer might have been better in the DAC department. Certainly not in their present electronic environments.
I was now able to compare the pd9700 as a transport to the Diskmagic. Close but the pd9700 had more clarity and transparency. The diskmagic was warmer but smootherred some of the midrange detail with its more overpowering bass.
One final tweak for the DA CAPO. I changed all the surface mounted rectifiers to murata MBR. Very subtle changes only - perhaps a little more air and a little more refinement but at the end of the day not worth the effort in my opinion. Another significant sign of Johns superior knowledge in CD electronics. In any other DAC i would have expected the usual large gains i have witnessed time after time including the changes I witnessed yesterday when i upgraded the rectifiers in the power supply path to the DAC Clock in the PD9700
One little point of note - when I by passed the analogue output stage on the DA Capo the sound was better with all those IC's left in the analogue output!! This by-pass was done immediately after 'upgrading' the rectifiers. Now this goes entirely against what i found in my last post !!!!!! Crikey wrong again. This cannot be right, there must be some sort of electrical mismatch between the valve output stage and the DAC outputs???
John Still rules in my book.
I could not escape the fact that the da capo through the improved transport was superior in every way now. Just so much more real and palpable. Shame on me for even thinking for one moment that the pioneer might have been better in the DAC department. Certainly not in their present electronic environments.
I was now able to compare the pd9700 as a transport to the Diskmagic. Close but the pd9700 had more clarity and transparency. The diskmagic was warmer but smootherred some of the midrange detail with its more overpowering bass.
One final tweak for the DA CAPO. I changed all the surface mounted rectifiers to murata MBR. Very subtle changes only - perhaps a little more air and a little more refinement but at the end of the day not worth the effort in my opinion. Another significant sign of Johns superior knowledge in CD electronics. In any other DAC i would have expected the usual large gains i have witnessed time after time including the changes I witnessed yesterday when i upgraded the rectifiers in the power supply path to the DAC Clock in the PD9700
One little point of note - when I by passed the analogue output stage on the DA Capo the sound was better with all those IC's left in the analogue output!! This by-pass was done immediately after 'upgrading' the rectifiers. Now this goes entirely against what i found in my last post !!!!!! Crikey wrong again. This cannot be right, there must be some sort of electrical mismatch between the valve output stage and the DAC outputs???
John Still rules in my book.
I found this years ago that the transport was the weak part and some poor sounding DACS were suddenly rather good when instead presented with a signal from the 'pute USB output via a suitable USB to TOSLink converter and a glass fibre lead.
Luke why don't you try this. I spelled it out near the beginning of, I think, this thread.
Luke why don't you try this. I spelled it out near the beginning of, I think, this thread.
thanks Ian I will go back through the thread and find this, I think i know what you mean. Are you sure it was this thread?? Would really like to be able to read it.
As you can see i am getting rather engrossed in this 'newish' hobby of mine learning all the time. The interaction between electricity and its environment is such a real time living one that harbours so much info about the past, it really is very very fascinating. Kids are starting to hate me wife is staring to get irritable with me. There are 7 rooms in the house and all but one harbours at least one hifi unit pulled apart and sitting on the floor in the corner awaiting for its turn.
As you can see i am getting rather engrossed in this 'newish' hobby of mine learning all the time. The interaction between electricity and its environment is such a real time living one that harbours so much info about the past, it really is very very fascinating. Kids are starting to hate me wife is staring to get irritable with me. There are 7 rooms in the house and all but one harbours at least one hifi unit pulled apart and sitting on the floor in the corner awaiting for its turn.
I agree completely. I was first underwhelmed by the dacapo...until I tried this:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/3/31286.html
ind combination with this:
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=27041
The funny part: A lot of other cheaper DACs as well give you a lot of good stuff...I have here a Accuphase DC801 to compare with, but my curent favourites is the dacapo and the RAKK DAC II
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/3/31286.html
ind combination with this:
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=27041
The funny part: A lot of other cheaper DACs as well give you a lot of good stuff...I have here a Accuphase DC801 to compare with, but my curent favourites is the dacapo and the RAKK DAC II
Hi Ian
I think the following is what you were proposing as an alternative 'computerised transport'. I was over at a mates house tonight with the Da capo in hand and my valve headphone amp and headphones that i am familiar with. We compared the diskmagic transport with his computer as transport utilising pure lossless (uncompressed) recordings he had made and the original cd's themselves.
His set up was to have usb output from his computer go into a Trends usb to coax converter (apparently as good as the squeezebox) which then went to the da capo. It had an optical output as well, but my dacpo does not have optical input. Now I think i understood him correctly when he said that the signal from the computer had bypassed any on board sound processors.
The computer output sounded very refined and clean with excellent separation if somewhat restrained, with no evidence of digital nasties whatsoever.The Diskmagic was ever slightly less refined especially in the treble, but had bags more air and top end dynamics and liveliness.
The computer as a transport had a very alluring cleanliness to it as if it were the unadulterated master tape version. There was still something negative about its overall sound that I could not quite put my finger on. The word that comes to mind and for some this might sound paradoxical, is.... artificial sounding!!However, the lack of air and dynamics definitely did let it down.
We used a high quality usb usb cable silver braid etc. etc and tried other cheaper versions as well, yet finding they gave the same result.
We took this one stage further and tried his acoustic solution cd hard disc recorder. The recorded cd on its hard disc storage was played back through the dacapo. The finding was almost exactly the same if even more lacking in dynamics when compared to using the diskmagic.
Now i know that there are probably many different versions of these computerised transport and other types of converters of its signal, which might be better in quality so these cannot be definitive findings. But there is a pattern emerging from storing info on hard disks that have been replicated in two different ways.
I think the following is what you were proposing as an alternative 'computerised transport'. I was over at a mates house tonight with the Da capo in hand and my valve headphone amp and headphones that i am familiar with. We compared the diskmagic transport with his computer as transport utilising pure lossless (uncompressed) recordings he had made and the original cd's themselves.
His set up was to have usb output from his computer go into a Trends usb to coax converter (apparently as good as the squeezebox) which then went to the da capo. It had an optical output as well, but my dacpo does not have optical input. Now I think i understood him correctly when he said that the signal from the computer had bypassed any on board sound processors.
The computer output sounded very refined and clean with excellent separation if somewhat restrained, with no evidence of digital nasties whatsoever.The Diskmagic was ever slightly less refined especially in the treble, but had bags more air and top end dynamics and liveliness.
The computer as a transport had a very alluring cleanliness to it as if it were the unadulterated master tape version. There was still something negative about its overall sound that I could not quite put my finger on. The word that comes to mind and for some this might sound paradoxical, is.... artificial sounding!!However, the lack of air and dynamics definitely did let it down.
We used a high quality usb usb cable silver braid etc. etc and tried other cheaper versions as well, yet finding they gave the same result.
We took this one stage further and tried his acoustic solution cd hard disc recorder. The recorded cd on its hard disc storage was played back through the dacapo. The finding was almost exactly the same if even more lacking in dynamics when compared to using the diskmagic.
Now i know that there are probably many different versions of these computerised transport and other types of converters of its signal, which might be better in quality so these cannot be definitive findings. But there is a pattern emerging from storing info on hard disks that have been replicated in two different ways.
Yes that's the same as I'm doing.
There is, on my set up at least, a fair bit to choose between different USB to SPDIF converters.
In all possible cases (the M-Audio had only electrical output) I found that the TOSLink was better than the electrical.
And decent glass fibre leads better than plastic. Clearer, cleaner, more information, more dynamic, more natural.
USB leads had no effect, I even connected 15 metres using three x five metre extenders, could tell no difference.
I wonder if it's to some extent a case that you finding the more accurate you get the more dull it is compared to the livened up distortion.
There is, on my set up at least, a fair bit to choose between different USB to SPDIF converters.
In all possible cases (the M-Audio had only electrical output) I found that the TOSLink was better than the electrical.
And decent glass fibre leads better than plastic. Clearer, cleaner, more information, more dynamic, more natural.
USB leads had no effect, I even connected 15 metres using three x five metre extenders, could tell no difference.
I wonder if it's to some extent a case that you finding the more accurate you get the more dull it is compared to the livened up distortion.
I am open to further experimentation with this form of transport. As I described there was something almost beguiling about the sound from the computer. Perhaps the sound is so clean and accurate, the likes of which i have not experienced before that i simply am not use to this sort of sound. It would be interesting to see what others think in direct comparisons.
"UD-10 upgrades the PC to be a hi-end audio source.
With the good power supply handling, the high accuracy clock
and the sophisticated digital output circuit, Trends UD-10 makes
the PC to behave as a high-end CD transport to work with an external
DAC. Yet, the Trends UD-10 and PC couple provides better sound
quality, larger storage capacity and more user-friendly interfaces
than a CD transport."
Looks like it does have a clock??
http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/282147.html
This article was only this first thing google found though. I've not investigated further.
As far as I know, jitter is when the components of the CD signals and clock signals go into mis-alignment as they are carried around inside the CD player.
There is no 'jitter' with the USB. The USB is converted to SPDIF in one single chip in the converter. So where's the room for any jitter there?
With the good power supply handling, the high accuracy clock
and the sophisticated digital output circuit, Trends UD-10 makes
the PC to behave as a high-end CD transport to work with an external
DAC. Yet, the Trends UD-10 and PC couple provides better sound
quality, larger storage capacity and more user-friendly interfaces
than a CD transport."
Looks like it does have a clock??
http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/10381/282147.html
This article was only this first thing google found though. I've not investigated further.
As far as I know, jitter is when the components of the CD signals and clock signals go into mis-alignment as they are carried around inside the CD player.
There is no 'jitter' with the USB. The USB is converted to SPDIF in one single chip in the converter. So where's the room for any jitter there?
I stand corrected, it's a monolithic unit with all functions integrated onto one chip.
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet2/f/0c4tq9liqkuiu7h6716rgddg2t3y.pdf
And as such, if the figures are anything to go by, pretty much mid-fi in terms fo performance. Maybe you aren't hearing jitter, maybe what you are hearing is just mediocre specification all round.
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet2/f/0c4tq9liqkuiu7h6716rgddg2t3y.pdf
And as such, if the figures are anything to go by, pretty much mid-fi in terms fo performance. Maybe you aren't hearing jitter, maybe what you are hearing is just mediocre specification all round.
I have ordered the trends and will play around with its power supply. I will try one of my DC/dc converters . The trends can be powered independently from the USB which must make a difference. I will then re evaluate the set up. Just getting to grips with uncompressed ripping at the moment onto my own computer.
I have not studied the content of these dc/dc converters, but they are all heavily sealed in metallic/epoxy cans. I was shocked when i saw that a lot of the ones I bought off ebay for a few pounds in fact retail at around £100 new EACH!!!!!! What is it that I am buying that makes them so expensive?? One thing i do know is that they make dramatic changes to anything they are made to supply. See above the effects on the isomagic. Excellent results on heater supplies for valves.
I have not studied the content of these dc/dc converters, but they are all heavily sealed in metallic/epoxy cans. I was shocked when i saw that a lot of the ones I bought off ebay for a few pounds in fact retail at around £100 new EACH!!!!!! What is it that I am buying that makes them so expensive?? One thing i do know is that they make dramatic changes to anything they are made to supply. See above the effects on the isomagic. Excellent results on heater supplies for valves.
New Da-Capo
Hi guys,
I was just wondering if there was any more news on the new Dacapo Dac? There was talk of a few pre-production models turning up around the beginning of June, and I have heard nothing more since then. Just waiting on it to replace my current Dac and pre-amp! Cheers,
The Moog
Hi guys,
I was just wondering if there was any more news on the new Dacapo Dac? There was talk of a few pre-production models turning up around the beginning of June, and I have heard nothing more since then. Just waiting on it to replace my current Dac and pre-amp! Cheers,
The Moog
Moog, I recently emailed John with the same question. I hope he won't mind me posting his reply here until he has an opportunity to reply to the thread himself :
"Thank you for your interest in our forthcoming DAC - We are expecting first units around October - electronics are developed - however we are waiting for first samples of the Metal and plastic toolings - which should be completed within 45days.
The Mephisto range consists of CD transport, DAC / Digital Pre and Current dumping Class A amplifier."
I also got this jpeg image:
"Thank you for your interest in our forthcoming DAC - We are expecting first units around October - electronics are developed - however we are waiting for first samples of the Metal and plastic toolings - which should be completed within 45days.
The Mephisto range consists of CD transport, DAC / Digital Pre and Current dumping Class A amplifier."
I also got this jpeg image:
Attachments
At long last some news regarding the da capo replacement. I had almost given up on John, and had been searching for a new alternative to the wonderful da capo when i stumbled on this tiny box of tricks.
John is gonna face stiff competition with my latest toy from Taiwan as it appears to better the original da capo for sound quality and costs only £60. I believe i am the first European to have bought it. It is a new design based on some old and new technology combined together.Believe me I have compared the Da Capo to numerous DAcs in the recent past. No harm in bringing forth a little bit of competition into this thread-then no one can complain that this site is used to promote one persons products!!!!
All I can say is that this philips based DAC is the most musical dac i have heard and this musicality brings with it an order and a correctness to the structure of the music which i never witnessed before. It almost makes you believe that you wrote the music itself because of the way it brings such understanding and clairty of the interaction between the notes. Only got it today so still evaluating and will make further comparisons in the coming days. As an extensive user and admirer of the Da capo i feel my comparisons may be of more value to all you other Da Capo lovers. As always just my own opinion but will still try to be the first to try the new 'dacapo' as soon as John releases it.
In order to make this site more credible i feel comparisons especially made by those already proven to love John's products is a must.
I hope I haven't offended anyone.
Luke
John is gonna face stiff competition with my latest toy from Taiwan as it appears to better the original da capo for sound quality and costs only £60. I believe i am the first European to have bought it. It is a new design based on some old and new technology combined together.Believe me I have compared the Da Capo to numerous DAcs in the recent past. No harm in bringing forth a little bit of competition into this thread-then no one can complain that this site is used to promote one persons products!!!!
All I can say is that this philips based DAC is the most musical dac i have heard and this musicality brings with it an order and a correctness to the structure of the music which i never witnessed before. It almost makes you believe that you wrote the music itself because of the way it brings such understanding and clairty of the interaction between the notes. Only got it today so still evaluating and will make further comparisons in the coming days. As an extensive user and admirer of the Da capo i feel my comparisons may be of more value to all you other Da Capo lovers. As always just my own opinion but will still try to be the first to try the new 'dacapo' as soon as John releases it.
In order to make this site more credible i feel comparisons especially made by those already proven to love John's products is a must.
I hope I haven't offended anyone.
Luke
wow luke!
better than a da capo for less than the price of a decent interconnect! forgive me for feeling a little dubious about such a claim. i have always respected your advice and views however and i know that you have listened to a good few high end dacs and have always adored the da capo so i am intrigued. what is this thing!?!
frank
better than a da capo for less than the price of a decent interconnect! forgive me for feeling a little dubious about such a claim. i have always respected your advice and views however and i know that you have listened to a good few high end dacs and have always adored the da capo so i am intrigued. what is this thing!?!
frank