I finished my new Cyburgs Needle a few days ago. First I tried the Visaton FRS8, with nice results, nice, but nothing to write home about. Than I implemented the Tangband W3-871S.
Oh boy, now I know that it was worth waiting for the suitable construction plan. What a terrific little speaker! It sounds wonderful with one of my NI-gainclones, and - completely unexpected, because of the bad sensitivity - sounds great with my SonicImpact T1 (powered by a lead battery). OK, complex loud passages are not the strenghth of this speaker, also not the D&B orgies, but with the right music there is not much missing.
I played this combination to friends this afternoon, who could not believe it. One sat in his chair, shaking his head, literally nailed down. Then he stood up, and just had to look behind the speaker...
I used the Tangband without the much recommended notch filter. Well all loudspeakers (and amplifiers) do actually sound so different one from the other, I do not hear any unbearable emphases with this one. I just wanted to have music on, maybe I will try that later. But I do actually like the idea of the completely passive-filter-less loudspeaker very much.
The Needle is at present positioned close the back wall (about 10cm), 2m apart, more than 1m of the corners and slightly angled inwards.
At present I still experimenting, being amazed how much tuneful bass is possible with speakers this small.
Thanks Bernt for that one.
Klaus
Oh boy, now I know that it was worth waiting for the suitable construction plan. What a terrific little speaker! It sounds wonderful with one of my NI-gainclones, and - completely unexpected, because of the bad sensitivity - sounds great with my SonicImpact T1 (powered by a lead battery). OK, complex loud passages are not the strenghth of this speaker, also not the D&B orgies, but with the right music there is not much missing.
I played this combination to friends this afternoon, who could not believe it. One sat in his chair, shaking his head, literally nailed down. Then he stood up, and just had to look behind the speaker...
I used the Tangband without the much recommended notch filter. Well all loudspeakers (and amplifiers) do actually sound so different one from the other, I do not hear any unbearable emphases with this one. I just wanted to have music on, maybe I will try that later. But I do actually like the idea of the completely passive-filter-less loudspeaker very much.
The Needle is at present positioned close the back wall (about 10cm), 2m apart, more than 1m of the corners and slightly angled inwards.
At present I still experimenting, being amazed how much tuneful bass is possible with speakers this small.
Thanks Bernt for that one.
Klaus
I have been looking at this thread for several weeks now and have decided to make a pair for myself using the FRS 8.
I see that there are two versions; one is 8 Ohm, QTS 0.97, the other 4 Ohm, QTS 1.07. Reading back through the thread I see the speaker works because of the high QTS of the driver.
I use an inverted LM3875 GC amplifier and think I've seen something about them being unsuitable for 4 Ohm speakers. If this is so could I use the 8 Ohm version?
Regards - Jim
I see that there are two versions; one is 8 Ohm, QTS 0.97, the other 4 Ohm, QTS 1.07. Reading back through the thread I see the speaker works because of the high QTS of the driver.
I use an inverted LM3875 GC amplifier and think I've seen something about them being unsuitable for 4 Ohm speakers. If this is so could I use the 8 Ohm version?
Regards - Jim
@lokh:
You are welcome! I can imagine that the notch filter depends much on the used amp, especially when tubes are in the signal path. I have tried them mostly on sand amps, and for these the notch is really necessary, because there is too much mid-shout for my taste. I had them only once hooked on a small Aurexx triode with 2x3 Watts or so, but for this amp the sensitivity was just too low.
On sand-amps without notch I even prefer the FRS8. But with notch the W3-871S is the clear winner for me.
Nice greetings from Guntramsdorf!
@jemraid: I tried both the 4 Ohms and the 8 Ohms variant and they sound pretty the same in my ears. Normally I prefer the 4 Ohms version, not for sound, but for practical reasons, just to lift the sensitivity a little bit.
There are some guys who even say that the 8 Ohms version is better, but as I said before, I have not noticed differences.
And to answer your question: Both versions work fine in the Needle enclosure.
Nice greetings, Berndt
You are welcome! I can imagine that the notch filter depends much on the used amp, especially when tubes are in the signal path. I have tried them mostly on sand amps, and for these the notch is really necessary, because there is too much mid-shout for my taste. I had them only once hooked on a small Aurexx triode with 2x3 Watts or so, but for this amp the sensitivity was just too low.
On sand-amps without notch I even prefer the FRS8. But with notch the W3-871S is the clear winner for me.
Nice greetings from Guntramsdorf!
@jemraid: I tried both the 4 Ohms and the 8 Ohms variant and they sound pretty the same in my ears. Normally I prefer the 4 Ohms version, not for sound, but for practical reasons, just to lift the sensitivity a little bit.
There are some guys who even say that the 8 Ohms version is better, but as I said before, I have not noticed differences.
And to answer your question: Both versions work fine in the Needle enclosure.
Nice greetings, Berndt
Dear Berndt,
Thanks for the reply, I've just looked on the CPC site here in the UK; http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/home/homepage.jsp
They have both the 4 and 8 Ohm versions listed, I seem to remember now that the LM3875 GC will work down to 4 Ohm so that will be the one I'll order.
I'll let you know how I get on and post a few pictures on here as well (when I find out how to)
Regards - Jem
Thanks for the reply, I've just looked on the CPC site here in the UK; http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/home/homepage.jsp
They have both the 4 and 8 Ohm versions listed, I seem to remember now that the LM3875 GC will work down to 4 Ohm so that will be the one I'll order.
I'll let you know how I get on and post a few pictures on here as well (when I find out how to)
Regards - Jem
Just finished a quick'n'dirty Cyburgs-Needle cabinet.
I couldn't find the right hole saw for the TB 871, but I had a 3" saw so I installed an Aurasound NS3-193-8A.
Whoa!!
I couldn't believe how much bass there was considering the small driver size, and I actually checked to see if I had anything else still connected.
It passed the Cosmic Hippo test and gave me a big grin.
I think it will play just loud enough to satisfy my sensible wife (around half-throttle on the gainclone).
I'll get to some tweaking and a few measurements, but first must build another for stereo!
Thanks to Berndt for the plan.
Dave
I couldn't find the right hole saw for the TB 871, but I had a 3" saw so I installed an Aurasound NS3-193-8A.
Whoa!!
I couldn't believe how much bass there was considering the small driver size, and I actually checked to see if I had anything else still connected.
It passed the Cosmic Hippo test and gave me a big grin.
I think it will play just loud enough to satisfy my sensible wife (around half-throttle on the gainclone).
I'll get to some tweaking and a few measurements, but first must build another for stereo!
Thanks to Berndt for the plan.
Dave
@jemraid: If the amp is able to drive the 4 Ohms, then they will be the better choice. Oh yes, pictures would be nice 🙂
@bzdang: 😀
I originally designed the Needle for the Visaton FRS8 but later I looked out for a "high-end" driver alternative. I tried the Tangband W3-871S, the Fostex FE87 and the Italian made Veravox3. Although all drivers are really excellent, only the Tangband did work well in the original Needle enclosure. Very well, I must say. 😉 Strange enough, because the Fostex's parameters are nearest to the FRS8, but it worked worst.
If the Aurasound *LotsOfDigitsAndCharacters* works also in the Needle, it could be a nice alternative and I'm looking forward to hearing your experiences.
Nice greetings, Berndt
BTW: What is a cosmic hippo?
@bzdang: 😀
I originally designed the Needle for the Visaton FRS8 but later I looked out for a "high-end" driver alternative. I tried the Tangband W3-871S, the Fostex FE87 and the Italian made Veravox3. Although all drivers are really excellent, only the Tangband did work well in the original Needle enclosure. Very well, I must say. 😉 Strange enough, because the Fostex's parameters are nearest to the FRS8, but it worked worst.
If the Aurasound *LotsOfDigitsAndCharacters* works also in the Needle, it could be a nice alternative and I'm looking forward to hearing your experiences.
Nice greetings, Berndt
BTW: What is a cosmic hippo?
Hi Cyburgs,
the 'cosmic hippo test' means to play 'Flight of the Cosmic Hippo' from Bela Fleck's album of the same name. It is fun to listen to and just unbelieveable to hear it coming out of the new loudspeaker.
http://www.flecktones.com/cds.asp?cdID=3
Cheers,
Dave
the 'cosmic hippo test' means to play 'Flight of the Cosmic Hippo' from Bela Fleck's album of the same name. It is fun to listen to and just unbelieveable to hear it coming out of the new loudspeaker.
http://www.flecktones.com/cds.asp?cdID=3
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Cheers,
Dave
I have that one too, so perhaps I will test it as well as the Aurasound [and the TB 871 as reference] when I find time to set up.
🙂
🙂
I just looked on the Spectrum Audio site; http://www.spectrumaudio.de/
The BS3 driver is for sale there, €20.30 each
Jem
The BS3 driver is for sale there, €20.30 each
Jem
Re: Hi-Vi B3S
It does, but based on John's test i figure the Aura is the best of the lot (no filter required)
dave
fireman said:
It does, but based on John's test i figure the Aura is the best of the lot (no filter required)
dave
You aren't concerned about it's frequency response above 14khz? It seems to drop off pretty fast and never even reaches a usable 20khz. The B3S hits 20khz. It looks like the best bet aside from that 8khz peak.
JWFokker said:
Based on the paper (and not what it sounds like)...
I'll give up a third of an octave not to have the peak (or all the reactive components to get rid of it -- that is just a band-aid).... and didn't John say the Aura does bass better.
I know i've talked with a number of people who read John'd report and concluded that the Aura -- on paper -- was the best of the lot.
The cost of filter components brings the prices pretty close...
dave
aurasound bipole version
I was so impressed with the Aurasound NS3 in the Cyburgs-Needle that I decided to try a second driver in the cabinet.
<actually I had drilled the first hole on the back end of the cabinet by mistake, so I needed to make a second hole>
Subjectively, I like it and have disconnected the BSC network that was necessary with the single driver. While it is still a small room loudspeaker, it works amazingly well. I haven't made time to set up for measurements yet, so much grass to cut at this time of year!
I will post results when I can.
I was so impressed with the Aurasound NS3 in the Cyburgs-Needle that I decided to try a second driver in the cabinet.
<actually I had drilled the first hole on the back end of the cabinet by mistake, so I needed to make a second hole>
Subjectively, I like it and have disconnected the BSC network that was necessary with the single driver. While it is still a small room loudspeaker, it works amazingly well. I haven't made time to set up for measurements yet, so much grass to cut at this time of year!
I will post results when I can.
Attachments
any chance of a design based on the B3S? just picked up 6 to redo my 6.1 setup and wouldnt mind something like this for my fronts....
Dear SQ Kid
Previous posts have suggested that the B3S would be a straight replacement for the FRS 8. The QTS of the B3S is almost the same as the FRS 8.
May I suggest that you make a pair and mount the B3S's as I've done my FRS 8's in the pic, you can always change them over at a later date.
Regards - Jem
Previous posts have suggested that the B3S would be a straight replacement for the FRS 8. The QTS of the B3S is almost the same as the FRS 8.
May I suggest that you make a pair and mount the B3S's as I've done my FRS 8's in the pic, you can always change them over at a later date.
Regards - Jem