Found another interesting info...
someone was comparing HF2000 and emit tweeter and wrote:
"Running the same level of 5Khz and 8Khz thru the good HF2000 and the Emit from the RS5000 (Emit-K) they seems to produce the same level of sound.
Both tweets were out of the enclosure, powered by my headphone amp, playing recorded test frequencies. Both have 5Khz crossover specs
I do also know people who have experimented with the different frequency bands and slopes with all the ribbon drivers that Infinity have made,and come up with very interesting results.Lowering the frequency of the emit to around 2500-3000Hz/12db and raising it to over 10000Hz/6db was that seperation and imaging were sacrificied to gain soundstage. If the emit sounds to loud,then all that is required is a resistor in series on the positive lead after the crossover and before the emit to tone it down. "
I couldnt find any specific data sheets about just emit tweeters , but I found tweeter which is dedicated emits replacement.
Beston RT002A Ribbon Tweeter is an Emit K replacement and thats a specs of this tweeter:
Beston RT002A
Nominal Impedance(ohms) 6
DC Resistance(Re) 5.8
Power Handling RMS(Watts) 40
Power handling Peak(Watts) 80
Usable Frequency Range(Hz) 2500-40000
Sensitivity(dB) 92
Sheilded Magnet Yes
Magnet Composition Neodymium
Faceplate Materials Plastic semi horn
Cone/Dome Composition Laminated Aluminum
Net Weight 1.2
Dittons I got are mkII with Green capacitors in the tweeter section of its crossover.
Multimeter i got is from some supermarket and its very basic digital multimeter I wouldnt expect from it to much.
I have already upgraded crossover from 66 so I do not posses any old caps anymore , and upgrade I didd was a cheap version just for mid and treeble section (mundorf 400) and in bass alcaps were used, but its not an final design. I really appreciate your help and knowledge you sharing.
I will implement correct values as you advised on all three sections , and probably move everything on bigger board (25x25cm) it will still fit original fitting but will be much easier to place them appropriately.
Now I can say mids in my opinion sounds much better than mids from 44 , beter presentation, and sounds very promising on their highs and downs sounds clean - I have tested them with mundorf 400v - my faviorite caps regarding their price. But I am still tempted for some better anyway.
As you can see from pictures mid looks very well, I have polished capsules with some black leather polisher, and all refurbishing process finally is moving on🙂
Cabinets are sanded and prepared for wrapping - Cream beige leather vinyl will be used for that, I have changed the the look of passive 12" radiators by placing on them very light, thin black custom made binding.
Going to improve inside damping by usind some deadening souns pads + some additional isolation.
Pictures of restauration can be seen here
Ditton 66 Photos by Mikolaj_Zmyslony | Photobucket
someone was comparing HF2000 and emit tweeter and wrote:
"Running the same level of 5Khz and 8Khz thru the good HF2000 and the Emit from the RS5000 (Emit-K) they seems to produce the same level of sound.
Both tweets were out of the enclosure, powered by my headphone amp, playing recorded test frequencies. Both have 5Khz crossover specs
I do also know people who have experimented with the different frequency bands and slopes with all the ribbon drivers that Infinity have made,and come up with very interesting results.Lowering the frequency of the emit to around 2500-3000Hz/12db and raising it to over 10000Hz/6db was that seperation and imaging were sacrificied to gain soundstage. If the emit sounds to loud,then all that is required is a resistor in series on the positive lead after the crossover and before the emit to tone it down. "
I couldnt find any specific data sheets about just emit tweeters , but I found tweeter which is dedicated emits replacement.
Beston RT002A Ribbon Tweeter is an Emit K replacement and thats a specs of this tweeter:
Beston RT002A
Nominal Impedance(ohms) 6
DC Resistance(Re) 5.8
Power Handling RMS(Watts) 40
Power handling Peak(Watts) 80
Usable Frequency Range(Hz) 2500-40000
Sensitivity(dB) 92
Sheilded Magnet Yes
Magnet Composition Neodymium
Faceplate Materials Plastic semi horn
Cone/Dome Composition Laminated Aluminum
Net Weight 1.2
Dittons I got are mkII with Green capacitors in the tweeter section of its crossover.
Multimeter i got is from some supermarket and its very basic digital multimeter I wouldnt expect from it to much.
I have already upgraded crossover from 66 so I do not posses any old caps anymore , and upgrade I didd was a cheap version just for mid and treeble section (mundorf 400) and in bass alcaps were used, but its not an final design. I really appreciate your help and knowledge you sharing.
I will implement correct values as you advised on all three sections , and probably move everything on bigger board (25x25cm) it will still fit original fitting but will be much easier to place them appropriately.
Now I can say mids in my opinion sounds much better than mids from 44 , beter presentation, and sounds very promising on their highs and downs sounds clean - I have tested them with mundorf 400v - my faviorite caps regarding their price. But I am still tempted for some better anyway.
As you can see from pictures mid looks very well, I have polished capsules with some black leather polisher, and all refurbishing process finally is moving on🙂
Cabinets are sanded and prepared for wrapping - Cream beige leather vinyl will be used for that, I have changed the the look of passive 12" radiators by placing on them very light, thin black custom made binding.
Going to improve inside damping by usind some deadening souns pads + some additional isolation.
Pictures of restauration can be seen here
Ditton 66 Photos by Mikolaj_Zmyslony | Photobucket
Replies to the above Post
If the HF2000 and the EMIT-K have the same Sensitivity at 5kHz ,
then the EMIT-K does not have the same Sensitivity as the Beston RT002A !
That RT002A may be able to be used in place of an EMIT-K ,
but the crossover will have to be changed , because it is different in both Sensitivity and Impedance.
For now , let us forget about the Beston RT002A.
HF2000 has an AVERAGE of Sensitivity of about 86dB/w/m ,
"average" because it is more sensitive at its lower treble end and less sensitive at its higher treble end of its useable Bandwidth ,
and that is why the 6uF capacitor is used with it , to pull down the excess at its low end to enable a fairly Flat Response from it.
Headphone amplifiers have higher output Impedance than loudspeaker amplifiers ,
and for that reason Headphone amps are not optimum to compare tweeter Sensitivities with when the tweeters have different Impedances ,
so forget that comparison.
The EMIT-K will likely have Sensitivity around 90dB/w/m , but I do not know for sure.
Adding a resistor in Series with it to match its output to the other drivers in the Loudspeaker will cause a different Impedance to its filter section.
What Infinity did in that Kappa 7 is a compromise - it is optimally filtered at only one setting of the 5R potentiometer.
Below and above that there will be a dip or peak which varies as the resistance is changed.
That Kappa 7 was not a high-end Audiophile loudspeaker.
It was a general purpose loudspeaker for the average home user who wanted good quality sound , but also able to adjust the treble level to suit one's preference.
That was typical for the USA and some other Hi-Fi Markets then.
For optimum response with the EMIT it will need to be set at a fixed Impedance ,
because when the Impedance is changed the caps and Inductor have to be changed or the frequency response will not be flat ,
but will have a peak or a dip in it near the crossover frequency.
What you seem to want to achieve will not be as easy as you seem to think.
You should have kept those old Green caps from your Ditton 66 , because they are polyester and do not wear out ,
thus could have been used to test the EMIT with different values of capacitance without having to buy several different new caps.
I see you have 3.9uF and it looks like 10uF ? .., and 27R in the filter section to the tweeter ,
so what tweeter do you have in there now ?
I recommend that you do not buy any more caps until you get the EMIT.
I will then describe a way you can connect it to listen to its output in comparison to the mid-dome ,
but it would have been useful to have those old green caps to make up a Parallel combination between about 4.5uF and 5uF to try with it.
Because you cannot measure anything useful between 2.5kHz to about 8kHz , you will have to do everything by experimenting and listening.
You can test your mid-domes by listening in the way I described in a previous Post here through that Parallel 10uF + 15uF pair you have in ,
but it is not the best way to achieve 25uF.
Best is to use a single cap , and second best is to use two of 12uF in Parallel ,
and not unequal capacitances ... I explained why in the Celestion 66 midrange thead.
You might be able to use the 10uF , or the 15uF , later with the EMIT , and then buy a single cap for the input to the midrange section.
When you are ready to make a new board for the crossover I will describe how to do the Layout of caps and inductors on it for better sound than is now.
The board should be at least 26.5 x 26.5cm , or 25 x 27.5cm.
If you are intending to cover all the cabinets with vinyl ,
then consider cutting off that overhanging wood lip above the tweeter ,
because it causes diffraction and reflection effects that are audible.
You will get clearer sound with it gone , and with that top edge rounded over in a quarter circle shape , and covered with the vinyl.
If the HF2000 and the EMIT-K have the same Sensitivity at 5kHz ,
then the EMIT-K does not have the same Sensitivity as the Beston RT002A !
That RT002A may be able to be used in place of an EMIT-K ,
but the crossover will have to be changed , because it is different in both Sensitivity and Impedance.
For now , let us forget about the Beston RT002A.
HF2000 has an AVERAGE of Sensitivity of about 86dB/w/m ,
"average" because it is more sensitive at its lower treble end and less sensitive at its higher treble end of its useable Bandwidth ,
and that is why the 6uF capacitor is used with it , to pull down the excess at its low end to enable a fairly Flat Response from it.
Headphone amplifiers have higher output Impedance than loudspeaker amplifiers ,
and for that reason Headphone amps are not optimum to compare tweeter Sensitivities with when the tweeters have different Impedances ,
so forget that comparison.
The EMIT-K will likely have Sensitivity around 90dB/w/m , but I do not know for sure.
Adding a resistor in Series with it to match its output to the other drivers in the Loudspeaker will cause a different Impedance to its filter section.
What Infinity did in that Kappa 7 is a compromise - it is optimally filtered at only one setting of the 5R potentiometer.
Below and above that there will be a dip or peak which varies as the resistance is changed.
That Kappa 7 was not a high-end Audiophile loudspeaker.
It was a general purpose loudspeaker for the average home user who wanted good quality sound , but also able to adjust the treble level to suit one's preference.
That was typical for the USA and some other Hi-Fi Markets then.
For optimum response with the EMIT it will need to be set at a fixed Impedance ,
because when the Impedance is changed the caps and Inductor have to be changed or the frequency response will not be flat ,
but will have a peak or a dip in it near the crossover frequency.
What you seem to want to achieve will not be as easy as you seem to think.
You should have kept those old Green caps from your Ditton 66 , because they are polyester and do not wear out ,
thus could have been used to test the EMIT with different values of capacitance without having to buy several different new caps.
I see you have 3.9uF and it looks like 10uF ? .., and 27R in the filter section to the tweeter ,
so what tweeter do you have in there now ?
I recommend that you do not buy any more caps until you get the EMIT.
I will then describe a way you can connect it to listen to its output in comparison to the mid-dome ,
but it would have been useful to have those old green caps to make up a Parallel combination between about 4.5uF and 5uF to try with it.
Because you cannot measure anything useful between 2.5kHz to about 8kHz , you will have to do everything by experimenting and listening.
You can test your mid-domes by listening in the way I described in a previous Post here through that Parallel 10uF + 15uF pair you have in ,
but it is not the best way to achieve 25uF.
Best is to use a single cap , and second best is to use two of 12uF in Parallel ,
and not unequal capacitances ... I explained why in the Celestion 66 midrange thead.
You might be able to use the 10uF , or the 15uF , later with the EMIT , and then buy a single cap for the input to the midrange section.
When you are ready to make a new board for the crossover I will describe how to do the Layout of caps and inductors on it for better sound than is now.
The board should be at least 26.5 x 26.5cm , or 25 x 27.5cm.
If you are intending to cover all the cabinets with vinyl ,
then consider cutting off that overhanging wood lip above the tweeter ,
because it causes diffraction and reflection effects that are audible.
You will get clearer sound with it gone , and with that top edge rounded over in a quarter circle shape , and covered with the vinyl.
Last edited:
Hello all,
Not to detract from the ongoing discussion, I just wanted to update you guys on the progress of this project.
So, things have kind of turned sideways unfortunately. The cabinets are pretty good but have issues. On one, the bass driver does not seal to the front baffle properly, and on the other, the midrange enclosure is not air-tight causing it to move with the movement of the bass driver.
Although the fixes are seemingly simple, they are rather challenging because of where the leak is in the midrange enclosure so this project has officially been put onto the shelf for an indefinite amount of time. I am going to be acquiring a pair of Celestion Ditton 66 original cabinets, complete with foam, crossovers and the bass and ABR drivers, so my attention will be focused on that. I will be posting in the Ditton 66 thread shortly, and may be looking for your assistance again Alan 🙂
Not to detract from the ongoing discussion, I just wanted to update you guys on the progress of this project.
So, things have kind of turned sideways unfortunately. The cabinets are pretty good but have issues. On one, the bass driver does not seal to the front baffle properly, and on the other, the midrange enclosure is not air-tight causing it to move with the movement of the bass driver.
Although the fixes are seemingly simple, they are rather challenging because of where the leak is in the midrange enclosure so this project has officially been put onto the shelf for an indefinite amount of time. I am going to be acquiring a pair of Celestion Ditton 66 original cabinets, complete with foam, crossovers and the bass and ABR drivers, so my attention will be focused on that. I will be posting in the Ditton 66 thread shortly, and may be looking for your assistance again Alan 🙂
about the unsealed custom cabinet
Jeffrey ,
it is not difficult to seal a cabinet.
For the midrange enclosure , buy a tube of Silicone sealant from a Hardware store.
There are several formulations of Silicone sealants , so read the information on the packs and buy one that includes Wood in its applications' list.
Take everything out of the mids' enclosure and apply silicone along EVERY internal joint , then press it in smoothly to ensure a full seal ,
then leave the enclosure empty for 2 days for the Silicone to fully cure.
For the Woofer , make a Gasket , preferably from a single piece of thin rubber , or cork+rubber mix.
Cork+rubber can be bought in sheets to make Gaskets from some Automobile/Car-repair parts' shops.
Cut a Ring from this of suitable size , and another for the other woofer.
A no-joins' ring piece makes a better gasket than one made from shorter pieces press joined.
There will be plenty of rubber or cork+rubber in circular shape cut from the centre of each Ring to make a smaller Ring gasket for each mid-cone ,
and plenty in those centre circles to make smaller ring gaskets for the tweeters.
The Silicone sealant will stick the Rings to the front of the cabinets.
Jeffrey ,
it is not difficult to seal a cabinet.
For the midrange enclosure , buy a tube of Silicone sealant from a Hardware store.
There are several formulations of Silicone sealants , so read the information on the packs and buy one that includes Wood in its applications' list.
Take everything out of the mids' enclosure and apply silicone along EVERY internal joint , then press it in smoothly to ensure a full seal ,
then leave the enclosure empty for 2 days for the Silicone to fully cure.
For the Woofer , make a Gasket , preferably from a single piece of thin rubber , or cork+rubber mix.
Cork+rubber can be bought in sheets to make Gaskets from some Automobile/Car-repair parts' shops.
Cut a Ring from this of suitable size , and another for the other woofer.
A no-joins' ring piece makes a better gasket than one made from shorter pieces press joined.
There will be plenty of rubber or cork+rubber in circular shape cut from the centre of each Ring to make a smaller Ring gasket for each mid-cone ,
and plenty in those centre circles to make smaller ring gaskets for the tweeters.
The Silicone sealant will stick the Rings to the front of the cabinets.
Last edited:
EMIT-K 902-3082N Ditton 66
Hi Alan
Tweeter I was going to use with d 66 xover I got was seas , at the same time I did xovers for d44 and d66 and only had 1 pair of seas tweeters, d44 gone and having heard them decided to use different tweeters, but xover been left unchanged.
Regarding the midrange I followed your instructions and to my ears they sound very good I used 15+10 ,didn't have 12s
I didn't think I will ever need to use old caps from d 66 xover so just binned them. It looks like Im complicating things even more proiding you false informations... sorry ,probably you are right that Beston RT002A is an possible replacement for emit but with some additional diy changes to xover and not an direct replacement.
I emailed david@davidsaudio.com and info@infinity-classics.de and asked for some technical info about EMITS, will see.
found another interesting info about speakers where EMIT k was used:
http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/reviews/stereophile_infinity-modulus.htm
and one interesting entry:
"My Emit-K ribbons have a DCR of 2.7 and Z of about 2.0 ohms at 14 Khz...about 2.2 ohms at 7 Khz ..if that helps at all....!"
I still haven't received EMITS but it looks like they are now in UK so hopefully in next couple days will finally have them.
I was thinking about the same and done it already wooden lip above the tweeter is cut
I still haven't decided about board for crossover, should I use PCB copper board or hardwire components with Van Damme Blue Series Studio Grade 4mm or chord odyssey 2 ( If decide to use wiring I want to use same speaker cable as wire inside the crossover)
Regards
Hi Alan
Tweeter I was going to use with d 66 xover I got was seas , at the same time I did xovers for d44 and d66 and only had 1 pair of seas tweeters, d44 gone and having heard them decided to use different tweeters, but xover been left unchanged.
Regarding the midrange I followed your instructions and to my ears they sound very good I used 15+10 ,didn't have 12s
I didn't think I will ever need to use old caps from d 66 xover so just binned them. It looks like Im complicating things even more proiding you false informations... sorry ,probably you are right that Beston RT002A is an possible replacement for emit but with some additional diy changes to xover and not an direct replacement.
I emailed david@davidsaudio.com and info@infinity-classics.de and asked for some technical info about EMITS, will see.
found another interesting info about speakers where EMIT k was used:
http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/reviews/stereophile_infinity-modulus.htm
and one interesting entry:
"My Emit-K ribbons have a DCR of 2.7 and Z of about 2.0 ohms at 14 Khz...about 2.2 ohms at 7 Khz ..if that helps at all....!"
I still haven't received EMITS but it looks like they are now in UK so hopefully in next couple days will finally have them.
I was thinking about the same and done it already wooden lip above the tweeter is cut
I still haven't decided about board for crossover, should I use PCB copper board or hardwire components with Van Damme Blue Series Studio Grade 4mm or chord odyssey 2 ( If decide to use wiring I want to use same speaker cable as wire inside the crossover)
Regards
Tweeter arived. I checked them today amd they reads 3.6 and 3.5 ohm, unfortunatelly still havent receive any respond about their technical datas from people i sent email.
Next step with the EMIT-K
Hi Mikolaj ,
Good , it seems you have mid-domes that are in good condition ,
so now it is worth getting the crossover right for the EMIT-K.
See in the Link to the Stereophile review of the Infinity loudspeaker -
- look at Figure 1 , Impedance Modulus :
The shape of the plot from 4kHz to a little higher than 10kHz shows the effect of the crossover combined with the Impedances of the midrange driver and the EMIT.
See at higher frequencies above 10kHz the plot becomes an almost flat line of 6 ohms.
That is the Impedance of the EMIT plus the Series Resistance of the treble level control ,
and as it is close to Flat we can safely assume the EMIT has a Flat Impedance ,
and probably of similar magnitude to its DCR.
The information you found with DCR of 2.7 ; 2.0 at 14kHz ; 2.2 at 7 kHz supports what I stated about Flat Impedance ,
however I suspect that user's meter may not be accurate for low Ohms ,
OR , his EMIT samples are different to yours.
We need to know how close to accurate your "supermarket" meter is ,
so look at it's Scale and post here :
Are its Ranges set to 200 or to 400 digits ?
That is , does its Digits' readings go to 199 Maximum or to 399 Maximum before the Range has to be changed for Ohms ?
Examples: 199 ; 19.9 ; 1.99 , or 399 ; 39.9 ; 3.99 .. ?
Also , do you have any low ohms resistors that have a +/- 1% Tolerance ?
If yes , then post here the resistances you have that are less than 10 ohms in +/- 1%.
If no , then after you post the meter Range digits' information
I will inform you what resistance you need to buy to test your meter's accuracy.
Why ? ... because your measured 3.5 and 3.6 may not be accurate ,
so we need to correct those with respect to a +/- 1% resistor.
*** *** ***
For the crossover , make a board from Wood , and hardwire using the same cable that you use for loudspeaker cable.
That should cause better sound than a PCB.
Manufacturers use PCBs to save money - low cost compared to quality cable plus wooden board plus extra assembly time to put ll that together !
Hi Mikolaj ,
Good , it seems you have mid-domes that are in good condition ,
so now it is worth getting the crossover right for the EMIT-K.
See in the Link to the Stereophile review of the Infinity loudspeaker -
- look at Figure 1 , Impedance Modulus :
The shape of the plot from 4kHz to a little higher than 10kHz shows the effect of the crossover combined with the Impedances of the midrange driver and the EMIT.
See at higher frequencies above 10kHz the plot becomes an almost flat line of 6 ohms.
That is the Impedance of the EMIT plus the Series Resistance of the treble level control ,
and as it is close to Flat we can safely assume the EMIT has a Flat Impedance ,
and probably of similar magnitude to its DCR.
The information you found with DCR of 2.7 ; 2.0 at 14kHz ; 2.2 at 7 kHz supports what I stated about Flat Impedance ,
however I suspect that user's meter may not be accurate for low Ohms ,
OR , his EMIT samples are different to yours.
We need to know how close to accurate your "supermarket" meter is ,
so look at it's Scale and post here :
Are its Ranges set to 200 or to 400 digits ?
That is , does its Digits' readings go to 199 Maximum or to 399 Maximum before the Range has to be changed for Ohms ?
Examples: 199 ; 19.9 ; 1.99 , or 399 ; 39.9 ; 3.99 .. ?
Also , do you have any low ohms resistors that have a +/- 1% Tolerance ?
If yes , then post here the resistances you have that are less than 10 ohms in +/- 1%.
If no , then after you post the meter Range digits' information
I will inform you what resistance you need to buy to test your meter's accuracy.
Why ? ... because your measured 3.5 and 3.6 may not be accurate ,
so we need to correct those with respect to a +/- 1% resistor.
*** *** ***
For the crossover , make a board from Wood , and hardwire using the same cable that you use for loudspeaker cable.
That should cause better sound than a PCB.
Manufacturers use PCBs to save money - low cost compared to quality cable plus wooden board plus extra assembly time to put ll that together !
Great Alan!
At this moment I got 3 pairs of Jantzen Superes 10W 1% Resistors: 1 and 12 ohms
Multimeter is: mastech m-830b
I have done some reading:
set on multimeter - reading (12ohm resistors)
2000k - 000
200k - 00.0
20k - 0.01
2000 - 011 (other got 012
200 - 12.4 (12.5)
for 1 0hms:
2000 - 000 (sometimes -000)
200 - 1.4 (1.5)
-------
emits:
1st.
2000 - 005
200 - 03.6
2nd.
2000 - 005
200 - 03.4
At this moment I got 3 pairs of Jantzen Superes 10W 1% Resistors: 1 and 12 ohms
Multimeter is: mastech m-830b
I have done some reading:
set on multimeter - reading (12ohm resistors)
2000k - 000
200k - 00.0
20k - 0.01
2000 - 011 (other got 012
200 - 12.4 (12.5)
for 1 0hms:
2000 - 000 (sometimes -000)
200 - 1.4 (1.5)
-------
emits:
1st.
2000 - 005
200 - 03.6
2nd.
2000 - 005
200 - 03.4
Allow for Resistance of the meter's leads ; Superes sellers ?
'ullo Mikolaj ,
I found some specifications for the M-830B , and also some photos of it.
It has no Relative mode , so you will have measure the Resistance of its test leads ,
because those could be about 0.5 ohm or more or less ...
Also , for low Resistance measurements , the meter's battery needs to be new or recent with plenty of charge left in it ,
because low resistance measuring draws a lot of Current from the battery.
The meter will measure inaccurately if its current availability becomes too low.
So , if the battery is still good in your meter , plug in both leads , turn it On ,
set the Dial to 200 ohm range , and touch the ends of the test leads together.
Post here the Resistance reading shown on-screen for the leads ?
Then measure the 1 ohm resistors again , in the 200 ohm range only.
Next , subtract the Leads' resistance from the result shown for each resistor.
That will give us the relative resistance to reference the measured results for the EMITs against.
--- --- ---
Which Seller did you buy the Superes from ?
I know of only two in continental Europe , and none to date in UK ,
but there could be one here now.
'ullo Mikolaj ,
I found some specifications for the M-830B , and also some photos of it.
It has no Relative mode , so you will have measure the Resistance of its test leads ,
because those could be about 0.5 ohm or more or less ...
Also , for low Resistance measurements , the meter's battery needs to be new or recent with plenty of charge left in it ,
because low resistance measuring draws a lot of Current from the battery.
The meter will measure inaccurately if its current availability becomes too low.
So , if the battery is still good in your meter , plug in both leads , turn it On ,
set the Dial to 200 ohm range , and touch the ends of the test leads together.
Post here the Resistance reading shown on-screen for the leads ?
Then measure the 1 ohm resistors again , in the 200 ohm range only.
Next , subtract the Leads' resistance from the result shown for each resistor.
That will give us the relative resistance to reference the measured results for the EMITs against.
--- --- ---
Which Seller did you buy the Superes from ?
I know of only two in continental Europe , and none to date in UK ,
but there could be one here now.
metter reading
ok
from your description leads resistance shown on metter on 200 mode is stable at 00.6, battery is brand new.
for 1 0hms:
200 - 1.4 (1.5)
-------
emits:
1st.
200 - 03.6
2nd.
200 - 03.4
ok
from your description leads resistance shown on metter on 200 mode is stable at 00.6, battery is brand new.
for 1 0hms:
200 - 1.4 (1.5)
-------
emits:
1st.
200 - 03.6
2nd.
200 - 03.4
Meter measurement errors , and not sufficient Digits
'ullo Mikolaj ,
Consider the following:
A 1 ohm +/- 1% resistor has to be between 0.99 <--> 1.01 ohms.
Your meter will not measure with that discrimination , because it has only a single digit after the Decimal Point :- 00.0 ,
so for those 1 ohm +/- 1% , your meter has to resolve the measurement as 1.0 ohm.
Let us describe the Leads' Resistance as X , and the Meter Error as Y .
For your two resistors :
1 ohm + X + Y = 1.4 ohm , and 1 ohm + X + Y = 1.5 ohm.
Because X + Y must be the same for both , your resistors would have to be 0.99 and 1.01 ohms ,
because on your meter 1.46 will show as 1.5 , and 1.44 will show as 1.4 ,
{ and 1.45 would show an unstable reading }.
Therefore X + Y + 0.45 ohm ,
but you measured X + Y = 0.6 ohm , and stable.
The smallest X + Y that can show stable at 0.6 on your meter is 0.56 ohm.
0.45 does not = 0.56 , thus I think those resistors are not +/- 1% , but are wider Tolerance.
For now , as 0.45 is not far from 0.56 , we can try to estimate the DCR for each of your EMITs ,
but remember the low discrimination result of only one Decimal Place.
EMIT + X + Y = 3.4 ohms , that could be 3.36 or 3.44 .
and EMIT + X + Y = 3.6 ohms could be 3.56 or 3.64 ohms ,
so we will have to take a guess , try some resistors , and you listen to the results and post what you hear.
Mills MRA-5 { MRA 05 } are true +/- 1% ... I have a lot of those , and I have checked their accuracy.
I recommend you buy two Mills of 2.7 ohm to connect in Series with the EMITs
so that the Total Impedance is close to the optimum to match the Celestion 0.14mH inductor.
Also you can use those Mills 2.7 +/- 1% to test your meter better.
For the mid-domes you will need 3.9 ohms and of 1.8 ohms , both in 5 watt ,
so I recommend the Mills MRA 05 .
I know you have 10uF and 15uF capacitors in the mids' section ,
but what other capacitors do you have ?
Post here all new caps values , and the values for the old Celestion green caps ,
because you can use those for testing , and buy new replacements later.
Do not post the old Celestion black caps , because those have deteriorated and are of no use now.
Also , I need to know what capacitors you intend to use in the woofer section so that I can advise what resistor values to buy.
If you do not want to buy Mills for all the resistors , you can use Mundorf M-Resist 5 watt Metal Oxide for some ,
but they are not as good as the Mills , so I would only use the M-Resist in the woofer section ,
because the small difference that may develop over time with use will not be as audible there.
Mills and Mundorf M-Resist are available here:
amplifier valve kits, HIFI pre-amplifiers, speaker kits,AMP Parts, upgrade components
Look in the Components' section , and open the Resistors' page.
'ullo Mikolaj ,
Consider the following:
A 1 ohm +/- 1% resistor has to be between 0.99 <--> 1.01 ohms.
Your meter will not measure with that discrimination , because it has only a single digit after the Decimal Point :- 00.0 ,
so for those 1 ohm +/- 1% , your meter has to resolve the measurement as 1.0 ohm.
Let us describe the Leads' Resistance as X , and the Meter Error as Y .
For your two resistors :
1 ohm + X + Y = 1.4 ohm , and 1 ohm + X + Y = 1.5 ohm.
Because X + Y must be the same for both , your resistors would have to be 0.99 and 1.01 ohms ,
because on your meter 1.46 will show as 1.5 , and 1.44 will show as 1.4 ,
{ and 1.45 would show an unstable reading }.
Therefore X + Y + 0.45 ohm ,
but you measured X + Y = 0.6 ohm , and stable.
The smallest X + Y that can show stable at 0.6 on your meter is 0.56 ohm.
0.45 does not = 0.56 , thus I think those resistors are not +/- 1% , but are wider Tolerance.
For now , as 0.45 is not far from 0.56 , we can try to estimate the DCR for each of your EMITs ,
but remember the low discrimination result of only one Decimal Place.
EMIT + X + Y = 3.4 ohms , that could be 3.36 or 3.44 .
and EMIT + X + Y = 3.6 ohms could be 3.56 or 3.64 ohms ,
so we will have to take a guess , try some resistors , and you listen to the results and post what you hear.
Mills MRA-5 { MRA 05 } are true +/- 1% ... I have a lot of those , and I have checked their accuracy.
I recommend you buy two Mills of 2.7 ohm to connect in Series with the EMITs
so that the Total Impedance is close to the optimum to match the Celestion 0.14mH inductor.
Also you can use those Mills 2.7 +/- 1% to test your meter better.
For the mid-domes you will need 3.9 ohms and of 1.8 ohms , both in 5 watt ,
so I recommend the Mills MRA 05 .
I know you have 10uF and 15uF capacitors in the mids' section ,
but what other capacitors do you have ?
Post here all new caps values , and the values for the old Celestion green caps ,
because you can use those for testing , and buy new replacements later.
Do not post the old Celestion black caps , because those have deteriorated and are of no use now.
Also , I need to know what capacitors you intend to use in the woofer section so that I can advise what resistor values to buy.
If you do not want to buy Mills for all the resistors , you can use Mundorf M-Resist 5 watt Metal Oxide for some ,
but they are not as good as the Mills , so I would only use the M-Resist in the woofer section ,
because the small difference that may develop over time with use will not be as audible there.
Mills and Mundorf M-Resist are available here:
amplifier valve kits, HIFI pre-amplifiers, speaker kits,AMP Parts, upgrade components
Look in the Components' section , and open the Resistors' page.
circumstances changed a bit, won brand new Hiquphon OW1 for much less it normally costs so will be comparing dittons with both tweeters and then will decide which one stays.
because of this fact unfortunatelly will not be able to afford polys caps for bass section and at least for now, xover will need to stay how it is + need to make 2 variants for 2 tweeters.
so for both variants I understand I definitelly should change 2.7 ohm resistor in mid section for 3.9 ohms and the other one 1.8 ohms just leave how it it. both in 5 watt
for Emit tweeter: use 2.7 ohm in series with tweater ,what about caps?
and for Hiquphon OW I do you think should I try same combination I had with seas which was 27 ohm resistor in series with tweeter?
I do not have any spare caps , so all parts will need to buy, and as explained earlier do not posses old oryginal caps from D66 anymore.
caps I have in tweeter as you can see on the pictures are 3.9 and 10 in tweeter ,10+15 and 3.9 in mid, and bass standard 2x electro 72uf
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/Mikolaj_Zmyslony/Ditton 66/P1000237_zps1c1f5372.jpg
Main objective for now is to sort mid section and make it universal for 2 variants of tweeters, compare tweeter and then upgrade bass caps with polys+resistors.
If you could ALan ,please suggest what parts do I need to order and will start experimenting. as resistors I will use Mills.
because of this fact unfortunatelly will not be able to afford polys caps for bass section and at least for now, xover will need to stay how it is + need to make 2 variants for 2 tweeters.
so for both variants I understand I definitelly should change 2.7 ohm resistor in mid section for 3.9 ohms and the other one 1.8 ohms just leave how it it. both in 5 watt
for Emit tweeter: use 2.7 ohm in series with tweater ,what about caps?
and for Hiquphon OW I do you think should I try same combination I had with seas which was 27 ohm resistor in series with tweeter?
I do not have any spare caps , so all parts will need to buy, and as explained earlier do not posses old oryginal caps from D66 anymore.
caps I have in tweeter as you can see on the pictures are 3.9 and 10 in tweeter ,10+15 and 3.9 in mid, and bass standard 2x electro 72uf
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/Mikolaj_Zmyslony/Ditton 66/P1000237_zps1c1f5372.jpg
Main objective for now is to sort mid section and make it universal for 2 variants of tweeters, compare tweeter and then upgrade bass caps with polys+resistors.
If you could ALan ,please suggest what parts do I need to order and will start experimenting. as resistors I will use Mills.
For tweeters' comparison
'ullo Mikolaj ,
I apologize , I had forgotten that you had posted photos showing the capacitors in your crossover.
In my mind I had confused your case with another member elsewhere who is doing a similar project , and who has different capacitors.
For BOTH tweeters , EMIT and Hiquphon OW1 , you can use the 3.9uF and 10uF in the tweeter section of the crossover.
For EMIT , use 2.7 ohm in SERIES with it , because we need to increase the Impedance and reduce the tweeter output.
Buy the Mills 5 watt for that , and use them to test your meter again before you put them in the crossover.
Post here the measurements your meter shows for each 2.7 ohm Mills.
For the OW1 , connect 47 ohm in PARALLEL with the tweeter , { yes a higher resistance than for SEAS 19TFF1 },
because that tweeter's Impedance needs to be reduced so that it matches the requirement for the 0.14mH inductor.
OW1 will probably not need a Series resistor , because its output should be correct for what is required for flat response through midrange and treble
if you have 1.8 ohm and 3.9 ohm in the midrange section.
Take the ceramic 27 ohm resistor out. It is not required for either tweeter.
In midrange section use the same 1.8 ohm in Series to the 10uF//15uF , and 3.9 ohm in Series to the 3.9uF ,
when comparing the different tweeters.
EMIT will sound different to OW1 , but it may have same or similar output level , or it may be a bit louder ... I do not know ...
so report here about its output after you have compared both tweeters.
With the Electrolytic caps in the woofer section the lower midrange will sound a bit muddy and resonant compared to the upper midrange ,
because the lower midrange frequencies are from the woofer, and mostly not from the mid-dome.
Note carefully what I advised above:
a resistor in SERIES for the EMIT , and a resistor in PARALLEL for the OW1.
That is the only change you will need to make for the initial comparison between the different tweeters.
'ullo Mikolaj ,
I apologize , I had forgotten that you had posted photos showing the capacitors in your crossover.
In my mind I had confused your case with another member elsewhere who is doing a similar project , and who has different capacitors.
For BOTH tweeters , EMIT and Hiquphon OW1 , you can use the 3.9uF and 10uF in the tweeter section of the crossover.
For EMIT , use 2.7 ohm in SERIES with it , because we need to increase the Impedance and reduce the tweeter output.
Buy the Mills 5 watt for that , and use them to test your meter again before you put them in the crossover.
Post here the measurements your meter shows for each 2.7 ohm Mills.
For the OW1 , connect 47 ohm in PARALLEL with the tweeter , { yes a higher resistance than for SEAS 19TFF1 },
because that tweeter's Impedance needs to be reduced so that it matches the requirement for the 0.14mH inductor.
OW1 will probably not need a Series resistor , because its output should be correct for what is required for flat response through midrange and treble
if you have 1.8 ohm and 3.9 ohm in the midrange section.
Take the ceramic 27 ohm resistor out. It is not required for either tweeter.
In midrange section use the same 1.8 ohm in Series to the 10uF//15uF , and 3.9 ohm in Series to the 3.9uF ,
when comparing the different tweeters.
EMIT will sound different to OW1 , but it may have same or similar output level , or it may be a bit louder ... I do not know ...
so report here about its output after you have compared both tweeters.
With the Electrolytic caps in the woofer section the lower midrange will sound a bit muddy and resonant compared to the upper midrange ,
because the lower midrange frequencies are from the woofer, and mostly not from the mid-dome.
Note carefully what I advised above:
a resistor in SERIES for the EMIT , and a resistor in PARALLEL for the OW1.
That is the only change you will need to make for the initial comparison between the different tweeters.
I finally finished cabinets, changed a look a bit to more modern standard and they suit my launge much more, Cabinets were sanded, both lips top and bottom cut ,everything wrapped with vinyl, I also found some interesting corners decoration to give speakers more aggressive look. I am really quite happy with results , it could be be a bit better but as a first project i am satisfied.
Now Sound.
I followed your advice Alan and in mid section placed 1.8 resistor in series with 10//15 caps and then 3.9 with 3.9uf Cap. In bass due to costs I left alcaps 72uf without any resistors, In Tweeter section 3.9uf cap is used and then 10uf + tried 3.3R in series and 2.2R with EMIT K. I havent tried combination with OW1 yet.
I found the sound is very limited in upper midrange - it seems there is a gap beetwen midrange and tweeter , voices sound very dull lack resolution - its hard to understand speech. Bass is very strong and its smooth across lower midrange but unfortunatelly thats where this all sound integrity ends, upper midrange is very disappointing, as resistors in midrange i used mresist from mundorf which are known as a very good especialy in resolutions and clarity. Any advice will be help. I havent played OW1 yet - wanted to burn in all setup - about 50hours gone but no major improvement.
photos of the project:
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/Mikolaj_Zmyslony/Ditton 66/P1000421_zpsae39aa2a.jpg
http://s899.photobucket.com/user/Mikolaj_Zmyslony/library/Ditton 66?sort=3&page=1
Now Sound.
I followed your advice Alan and in mid section placed 1.8 resistor in series with 10//15 caps and then 3.9 with 3.9uf Cap. In bass due to costs I left alcaps 72uf without any resistors, In Tweeter section 3.9uf cap is used and then 10uf + tried 3.3R in series and 2.2R with EMIT K. I havent tried combination with OW1 yet.
I found the sound is very limited in upper midrange - it seems there is a gap beetwen midrange and tweeter , voices sound very dull lack resolution - its hard to understand speech. Bass is very strong and its smooth across lower midrange but unfortunatelly thats where this all sound integrity ends, upper midrange is very disappointing, as resistors in midrange i used mresist from mundorf which are known as a very good especialy in resolutions and clarity. Any advice will be help. I havent played OW1 yet - wanted to burn in all setup - about 50hours gone but no major improvement.
photos of the project:
http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac195/Mikolaj_Zmyslony/Ditton 66/P1000421_zpsae39aa2a.jpg
http://s899.photobucket.com/user/Mikolaj_Zmyslony/library/Ditton 66?sort=3&page=1
Last edited:
Check the Polarity , and other connections.
Check the Polarity of the wire connections to the Tweeter.
In the Celestion crossover design the Amplifier Positive terminal is connected through the crossover to:
Woofer Positive ; Midrange Positive ; Tweeter Negative terminal ,
and the Amplifier Negative terminal is connected to the:
Woofer Negative ; Midrange Negative ; Tweeter Positive.
The sound you describe sounds like Phase Cancellation where the tweeter overlaps the midrange.
If the above does not fix the problem ,
then perhaps that EMIT Tweeter has quite different crossover requirements than we have been able to estimate.
Next I would put the Hiquphon tweeter in , and with the 47 ohm resistor in Parallel with it ,
and no Series connected resistor to tweeter ,
and with the same Polarity connections as described above.
Check also that you have the 3.9 ohm in Series with the 3.9uF midrange cap ,
and not in Parallel with it.
Check the Polarity of the wire connections to the Tweeter.
In the Celestion crossover design the Amplifier Positive terminal is connected through the crossover to:
Woofer Positive ; Midrange Positive ; Tweeter Negative terminal ,
and the Amplifier Negative terminal is connected to the:
Woofer Negative ; Midrange Negative ; Tweeter Positive.
The sound you describe sounds like Phase Cancellation where the tweeter overlaps the midrange.
If the above does not fix the problem ,
then perhaps that EMIT Tweeter has quite different crossover requirements than we have been able to estimate.
Next I would put the Hiquphon tweeter in , and with the 47 ohm resistor in Parallel with it ,
and no Series connected resistor to tweeter ,
and with the same Polarity connections as described above.
Check also that you have the 3.9 ohm in Series with the 3.9uF midrange cap ,
and not in Parallel with it.
thank you Alan, i will double check it next weekend , i will be getting another pair of mf500 just to compare, and i also got now fully working pair of HF2000 wchich both reads 5 ohm,
if i wanted to compare OW1 to hf2000 what resistor hf2000 would require where everything else stays the same in xover?
emit in series. with 2.7
OW1 in parralel with 47ohm
what about Hf2000 ???
if i wanted to compare OW1 to hf2000 what resistor hf2000 would require where everything else stays the same in xover?
emit in series. with 2.7
OW1 in parralel with 47ohm
what about Hf2000 ???
one different capacitor for HF2000
HF2000 does not need any resistor.
There was no resistor for the HF2000 in Celestion's original 66 ,
but you will have to change the output capacitor of the tweeter crossover
or the HF2000 will be damaged.
Take out the 10uF cap and install 6uF as in the original.
The seller I posted in #112 above has 6.2uF in ClarityCap SA series.
That will be suitable , and is the only 6.2uF cap currently available in the UK
that I will recommend to hear the potential of the HF2000 in a well upgraded crossover.
HF2000 is lower sensitivity than OW1 ,
and with HF2000 you will get the vintage sound of slightly rolled off treble
compared to most modern loudspeakers.
If you still hear a gap between midrange and tweeter when HF2000 is in
and with it connected in the Negative Polarity ,
then the problem may be the old MD500s are worn out.
If so , put in the second pair of MD500 and listen.
I will describe a listening test for you to evaluate the condition of your MD500s.
For that you will need to disconnect the input to the tweeter crossover
and the output Inductor and Capacitor-Resistor section of the midrange filter
and listen to the mid-domes connected only to the input Capacitor-Resistor and Inductor network -
- the High-Pass section of the mid's filter.
Disconnect between the 25uF cap and the 0.34mH inductor
and connect a wire from the 25uF cap to the Positive terminal of the mid-dome.
You would then be listening to a 2-way loudspeaker of woofer + mid-dome
and can hear then the degree the mid-domes reproduce in the upper midrange to above the treble crossover point ,
and compare both pairs of mid-domes this way to hear which are the better.
Note , you must disconnect one end of the 3.9uF cap in the tweeter filter
to completely disconnect that filter from the circuit ,
and not simply disconnect the tweeter itself ,
because with tweeter disconnected and all other circuit in
there will be an almost short circuit through the 0.14mH inductor
as result of phase shift caused by the unloading of the circuit ,
and that short circuit will cause damage to your amplifier.
---
I forgot in my last post to say that I like the cabinets you have made
as shown in your extra photos !
Also , what brand and model of loudspeaker is the small 2-way you have on the stand between the new 66 cabinets ?
HF2000 does not need any resistor.
There was no resistor for the HF2000 in Celestion's original 66 ,
but you will have to change the output capacitor of the tweeter crossover
or the HF2000 will be damaged.
Take out the 10uF cap and install 6uF as in the original.
The seller I posted in #112 above has 6.2uF in ClarityCap SA series.
That will be suitable , and is the only 6.2uF cap currently available in the UK
that I will recommend to hear the potential of the HF2000 in a well upgraded crossover.
HF2000 is lower sensitivity than OW1 ,
and with HF2000 you will get the vintage sound of slightly rolled off treble
compared to most modern loudspeakers.
If you still hear a gap between midrange and tweeter when HF2000 is in
and with it connected in the Negative Polarity ,
then the problem may be the old MD500s are worn out.
If so , put in the second pair of MD500 and listen.
I will describe a listening test for you to evaluate the condition of your MD500s.
For that you will need to disconnect the input to the tweeter crossover
and the output Inductor and Capacitor-Resistor section of the midrange filter
and listen to the mid-domes connected only to the input Capacitor-Resistor and Inductor network -
- the High-Pass section of the mid's filter.
Disconnect between the 25uF cap and the 0.34mH inductor
and connect a wire from the 25uF cap to the Positive terminal of the mid-dome.
You would then be listening to a 2-way loudspeaker of woofer + mid-dome
and can hear then the degree the mid-domes reproduce in the upper midrange to above the treble crossover point ,
and compare both pairs of mid-domes this way to hear which are the better.
Note , you must disconnect one end of the 3.9uF cap in the tweeter filter
to completely disconnect that filter from the circuit ,
and not simply disconnect the tweeter itself ,
because with tweeter disconnected and all other circuit in
there will be an almost short circuit through the 0.14mH inductor
as result of phase shift caused by the unloading of the circuit ,
and that short circuit will cause damage to your amplifier.
---
I forgot in my last post to say that I like the cabinets you have made
as shown in your extra photos !
Also , what brand and model of loudspeaker is the small 2-way you have on the stand between the new 66 cabinets ?
Hi Allan,
I did some experiment with Dittons and think that everything is almost sorted.
I tried to swap midrange driver with another pair and results were the same, so I thought it cn not be drivers.
I tried different tweeters - and while unsoldering I found that instead 2.7 I had 2.2 so I swapped them with 3.3 changed polarity on tweeters and everything started sound much better and I mean really better, then I tried OW1 with 47R and they sounded different - a bit more relaxed , I have to leave them for longer listening as my first reaction was that i Liked more EMit tweeter which had more air and more spark at highest freq. I think that values on caps and resistors are fine now , in future I will change caps in bass section for mundorf and also replace mids and tweeter caps for even better maybe mundorf silver gold. but overal sound is really impressive. I went to 2 hifi shops and had an audition on speakers in price range 1000 - 2500 and those dittons after all tweaks are much better. Thank you very much for your help.
The speakers you asked about are small Haybrook HB2 , very nice small monitors I keeps them in my bedroom.
By the way ,im very curious how do you calculate what resistors needs to go in serier with new polypropylene capacitors when old electrolitic ones are replaced?
I have also posses my beloved old Leak sandwich 600 which sounds wonderful, but after replacing all old elcaps with mundorf - same I got in 66 - everything is wrong, the whole balance and relaxing sounding is lost.
I tried to draw schematic for this crossover but I am not sure if I done t right
thats oryginal crossover:
front
http://s23.postimg.org/y3m8as0uz/P1020069.jpg
back - flipped
20140426_123139_zpsd9bc1226.jpg Photo by Mikolaj_Zmyslony | Photobucket
and thats schematic - hope I draw it right:
20140426_173129_zps6e2b8d06.jpg Photo by Mikolaj_Zmyslony | Photobucket
as I mentioned earlier swapped caps with same values but it doesn't sound right. I am also thinking about replacing original tweeter with vifaxt25. Thats my last project I would love to finish and finally relax and start listening to music🙂
If you could help with that , that would be just brilliant.
Any way I would like to thank you for all help , really appreciate that.
Regards
I did some experiment with Dittons and think that everything is almost sorted.
I tried to swap midrange driver with another pair and results were the same, so I thought it cn not be drivers.
I tried different tweeters - and while unsoldering I found that instead 2.7 I had 2.2 so I swapped them with 3.3 changed polarity on tweeters and everything started sound much better and I mean really better, then I tried OW1 with 47R and they sounded different - a bit more relaxed , I have to leave them for longer listening as my first reaction was that i Liked more EMit tweeter which had more air and more spark at highest freq. I think that values on caps and resistors are fine now , in future I will change caps in bass section for mundorf and also replace mids and tweeter caps for even better maybe mundorf silver gold. but overal sound is really impressive. I went to 2 hifi shops and had an audition on speakers in price range 1000 - 2500 and those dittons after all tweaks are much better. Thank you very much for your help.
The speakers you asked about are small Haybrook HB2 , very nice small monitors I keeps them in my bedroom.
By the way ,im very curious how do you calculate what resistors needs to go in serier with new polypropylene capacitors when old electrolitic ones are replaced?
I have also posses my beloved old Leak sandwich 600 which sounds wonderful, but after replacing all old elcaps with mundorf - same I got in 66 - everything is wrong, the whole balance and relaxing sounding is lost.
I tried to draw schematic for this crossover but I am not sure if I done t right
thats oryginal crossover:
front
http://s23.postimg.org/y3m8as0uz/P1020069.jpg
back - flipped
20140426_123139_zpsd9bc1226.jpg Photo by Mikolaj_Zmyslony | Photobucket
and thats schematic - hope I draw it right:
20140426_173129_zps6e2b8d06.jpg Photo by Mikolaj_Zmyslony | Photobucket
as I mentioned earlier swapped caps with same values but it doesn't sound right. I am also thinking about replacing original tweeter with vifaxt25. Thats my last project I would love to finish and finally relax and start listening to music🙂
If you could help with that , that would be just brilliant.
Any way I would like to thank you for all help , really appreciate that.
Regards
answers needed ?
I will need some more information before I can advise what you need to do to the Leak Sandwich 600.
I cannot easily check your Schematic from the two photos of the crossover ,
because the Front photo has not the colours of the connecting wires shown.
The Schematic you drew is the type of crossover I would expect to see.
Do not worry if you have not drawn it correctly ,
because if you put the new capacitors in exactly the same places as you took the old ones out ,
then the circuit will still be correct.
To advise how to restore the sound to that you liked I need to know:
(1) exactly what capacitance you put in each place ?
You stated Mundorf , but Mundorf does not have 6uF or 16uF or 50uF ,
so what did you use exactly for each ?
( Mundorf 47uF for 50uF will work.)
(2) did you put in Polypropylene caps or Electrolytic caps ?
Mundorf have both types - what is the type name on each new capacitor ?
(3) is the mid range driver now too loud , or too harsh/squawky in sound , or is it both ?
(4) is the tweeter too loud for the midrange now ?
or less than the midrange now , but louder than it was before the new capacitors ?
(5) I think all these drivers will be nominal 8 ohm , but some may be higher Impedance ,
so please disconnect one wire from each driver and measure their DC Resistances , and post here.
Measure both pairs of each driver , because there may be some differences with these old drivers.
I need to know the DC Resistances to estimate how much resistance you will have to add
to 3 , or perhaps 4 , of the capacitors in each crossover.
(6) measure the old resistors that are in both crossovers
- disconnect one end of each from the circuit before you measure each.
Post measurements here.
If the 39 ohm is less than 36 or higher than 42 it will have to be replaced.
If the 12 ohm is less than 11 or higher than 13 it will have to be replaced.
I will advise types and power rating for new resistors after you reply to all the above questions.
*** *** ***
For your Celestion project you do not have to put Mundorf in the woofer circuit ,
but if you want to it will have to be done with the correct capacitors or the sound will not be better , but only different ,
so post here exactly the capacitances you intend to use before you buy them , and I will advise.
*** *** ***
I am pleased you found the cause of the poor integration between mid-dome and tweeter.
Are the differences now between the Ribbon and the Hiquphon only differences in Tone ,
as you described the sound of each ,
or is one louder and other quieter than each other ?
and if so , which one has correct output level matching to the mid-dome output ?
I will need some more information before I can advise what you need to do to the Leak Sandwich 600.
I cannot easily check your Schematic from the two photos of the crossover ,
because the Front photo has not the colours of the connecting wires shown.
The Schematic you drew is the type of crossover I would expect to see.
Do not worry if you have not drawn it correctly ,
because if you put the new capacitors in exactly the same places as you took the old ones out ,
then the circuit will still be correct.
To advise how to restore the sound to that you liked I need to know:
(1) exactly what capacitance you put in each place ?
You stated Mundorf , but Mundorf does not have 6uF or 16uF or 50uF ,
so what did you use exactly for each ?
( Mundorf 47uF for 50uF will work.)
(2) did you put in Polypropylene caps or Electrolytic caps ?
Mundorf have both types - what is the type name on each new capacitor ?
(3) is the mid range driver now too loud , or too harsh/squawky in sound , or is it both ?
(4) is the tweeter too loud for the midrange now ?
or less than the midrange now , but louder than it was before the new capacitors ?
(5) I think all these drivers will be nominal 8 ohm , but some may be higher Impedance ,
so please disconnect one wire from each driver and measure their DC Resistances , and post here.
Measure both pairs of each driver , because there may be some differences with these old drivers.
I need to know the DC Resistances to estimate how much resistance you will have to add
to 3 , or perhaps 4 , of the capacitors in each crossover.
(6) measure the old resistors that are in both crossovers
- disconnect one end of each from the circuit before you measure each.
Post measurements here.
If the 39 ohm is less than 36 or higher than 42 it will have to be replaced.
If the 12 ohm is less than 11 or higher than 13 it will have to be replaced.
I will advise types and power rating for new resistors after you reply to all the above questions.
*** *** ***
For your Celestion project you do not have to put Mundorf in the woofer circuit ,
but if you want to it will have to be done with the correct capacitors or the sound will not be better , but only different ,
so post here exactly the capacitances you intend to use before you buy them , and I will advise.
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I am pleased you found the cause of the poor integration between mid-dome and tweeter.
Are the differences now between the Ribbon and the Hiquphon only differences in Tone ,
as you described the sound of each ,
or is one louder and other quieter than each other ?
and if so , which one has correct output level matching to the mid-dome output ?
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