Hey Alan,
The reason I picked up the crossovers were that they cost me next to nothing. I figure I will start with these to have a starting point, and also because my budget for this project was cut due to the home purchase being more expensive than my wife and I expected, so when this deal cropped up I jumped on it because at the very least I can get them up and running and have something solid to start with.
I'm on the road so I can't get into too much detail right now but when I have a moment ill explain better.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The reason I picked up the crossovers were that they cost me next to nothing. I figure I will start with these to have a starting point, and also because my budget for this project was cut due to the home purchase being more expensive than my wife and I expected, so when this deal cropped up I jumped on it because at the very least I can get them up and running and have something solid to start with.
I'm on the road so I can't get into too much detail right now but when I have a moment ill explain better.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Boards for the crossover , plus correcting a mistake in #60
OK Jeffrey ,
then as low price you have two boards you can use , as follows:
Use one crossover board for the Tweeter and Midrange sections of the crossover ,
and the other board for the Woofer filter.
Decide which board will be more suitable for later modification to fit two much larger physical sized inductors on ,
and with the inductors placed 4 inches or larger distance apart to minimize their magnetic field cross-coupling.
Celestion did not do this , however significantly better sound will result if you do.
That will be for upgrade to lower DCR inductors for the Woofer filter if you decide to later ,
so put the two old 66 woofer inductors and the new capacitors you buy for that filter on one board.
On the other board put the air-core 2.2mH midrange inductor from the 66 crossover , and the 0.66mH air-core inductor from the 44 crossover ,
and space those 4 inches or larger apart ,
and also on this board put a 0.14mH Tweeter inductor , 4 or more inches away from the other two ,
and this inductor should be put the largest distance away if you are trying to decide layout.
Before you install the 0.14mH , remember you will have to buy 3.6uF and 11uF in good quality capacitors ,
and those are only easily available near you by Mail-order from Sonic Craft , and are not cheap.
{ I do not recommend Solen nor Axon caps for treble and midrange , but only for the woofer filter.}
So , if you want to buy lower price good quality caps for the tweeter in the commonly available 3.3uF and 10uF , then better will be to buy a 0.15mH inductor now ,
as that will be lower price than the Sonicap GenI 3.6uF + 11uF caps.
A Solen "perfect lay" 0.15mH will be OK , but do not buy the lowest DCR option , but buy the largest DCR option that Solen sell , { and that one is lower price } ,
EDIT: I have looked on the Solen web-site - their smallest 0.15mH is in 18AWG and is too low in DCR - it will need a 0.33 ohm resistor connected in Series with it.
Alternate is to ask Solen to wind you 0.15mH in their 20AWG wire , but that will cost you for the special order , and it will still be a bit too low in DCR.
I recommend you wind your own in minimum 22AWG , and better will be in 24AWG thinner wire ,
because some DCR is needed in that location to minimize resonance between the inductor and the tweeter's voice-coil effective capacitance at the low end of its range where it is being filtered.
Some designers do not know this , and as result have an audible resonance caused by using too low DCR inductor there ,
as is also the case for the 2.2mH inductor in the midrange filter.
Also , you can Bi-wire if you want to.
That is , run a separate loudspeaker cable from amplifier to cabinet for the Woofer filter's board to that for the other two filters combined through one loudspeaker cable to the other board.
Bi-wiring this way will produce clearer audio result than bi-wiring in other drivers' combinations.
You can Tri-wire , with three loudspeaker cables if you want to ,
but I think separating the midrange and treble from each other will not cause the same degree of audible improvement as separating the bass from the other two.
*** *** ***
A correction to part of my Post #60 , where I stated:
"and a 0.15mH for the tweeter filter which would have allowed you to use the common available 3.3uF and 10uF capacitors with it ,
-{ with larger resistance in Parallel ... at least 39 ohms , or 43 ohms if available in 5 watt }."
I underestimated there.
The Parallel resistance to the Tweeter would need to be about 46 ohms if using a 0.15mH inductor in the filter ,
so buy a 47 ohm 5 watt resistor , and in the - side of its +/- Tolerance if you have the option to do that.
OK Jeffrey ,
then as low price you have two boards you can use , as follows:
Use one crossover board for the Tweeter and Midrange sections of the crossover ,
and the other board for the Woofer filter.
Decide which board will be more suitable for later modification to fit two much larger physical sized inductors on ,
and with the inductors placed 4 inches or larger distance apart to minimize their magnetic field cross-coupling.
Celestion did not do this , however significantly better sound will result if you do.
That will be for upgrade to lower DCR inductors for the Woofer filter if you decide to later ,
so put the two old 66 woofer inductors and the new capacitors you buy for that filter on one board.
On the other board put the air-core 2.2mH midrange inductor from the 66 crossover , and the 0.66mH air-core inductor from the 44 crossover ,
and space those 4 inches or larger apart ,
and also on this board put a 0.14mH Tweeter inductor , 4 or more inches away from the other two ,
and this inductor should be put the largest distance away if you are trying to decide layout.
Before you install the 0.14mH , remember you will have to buy 3.6uF and 11uF in good quality capacitors ,
and those are only easily available near you by Mail-order from Sonic Craft , and are not cheap.
{ I do not recommend Solen nor Axon caps for treble and midrange , but only for the woofer filter.}
So , if you want to buy lower price good quality caps for the tweeter in the commonly available 3.3uF and 10uF , then better will be to buy a 0.15mH inductor now ,
as that will be lower price than the Sonicap GenI 3.6uF + 11uF caps.
A Solen "perfect lay" 0.15mH will be OK , but do not buy the lowest DCR option , but buy the largest DCR option that Solen sell , { and that one is lower price } ,
EDIT: I have looked on the Solen web-site - their smallest 0.15mH is in 18AWG and is too low in DCR - it will need a 0.33 ohm resistor connected in Series with it.
Alternate is to ask Solen to wind you 0.15mH in their 20AWG wire , but that will cost you for the special order , and it will still be a bit too low in DCR.
I recommend you wind your own in minimum 22AWG , and better will be in 24AWG thinner wire ,
because some DCR is needed in that location to minimize resonance between the inductor and the tweeter's voice-coil effective capacitance at the low end of its range where it is being filtered.
Some designers do not know this , and as result have an audible resonance caused by using too low DCR inductor there ,
as is also the case for the 2.2mH inductor in the midrange filter.
Also , you can Bi-wire if you want to.
That is , run a separate loudspeaker cable from amplifier to cabinet for the Woofer filter's board to that for the other two filters combined through one loudspeaker cable to the other board.
Bi-wiring this way will produce clearer audio result than bi-wiring in other drivers' combinations.
You can Tri-wire , with three loudspeaker cables if you want to ,
but I think separating the midrange and treble from each other will not cause the same degree of audible improvement as separating the bass from the other two.
*** *** ***
A correction to part of my Post #60 , where I stated:
"and a 0.15mH for the tweeter filter which would have allowed you to use the common available 3.3uF and 10uF capacitors with it ,
-{ with larger resistance in Parallel ... at least 39 ohms , or 43 ohms if available in 5 watt }."
I underestimated there.
The Parallel resistance to the Tweeter would need to be about 46 ohms if using a 0.15mH inductor in the filter ,
so buy a 47 ohm 5 watt resistor , and in the - side of its +/- Tolerance if you have the option to do that.
Last edited:
Hey Alan,
Okay, that sounds great. I'll see about finding a bigger board to fit the parts on, that shouldn't be a problem, then I can just use wire to wire to wire things up and then use something to hold the parts to the board. Then I can simply dissect the inductors off the two boards and make my own.
I think down the road I will replace the inductors but I would like to stick with the ones on the boards now. I realize they are not the best and that Celestion cut costs here, but I want to get the speakers up and running so I can have a listen to them as is and see where they sit. I'd like to compare them to my other speakers (Kef 107s, big IMFs) just to have an idea of where I am going with this with these crossovers. Then I will upgrade slowly and realize the improvements as I go along, which I think is a great way to learn about crossovers.
Question for you - if I am using the 0.14mH inductor for the tweeter, are you saying I need about 47 ohms of resistance? Or is this with a 0.15mH?
Many thanks Alan I very much appreciate your expert advice.. I think this will turn out to be something quite special.
Once we have the crossovers figured out, we will then move on to the dampening inside the cabinets. I want to get the crossovers good to go, then build the preliminary cabinets, slap the drivers in there, fire them up and have a listen and also measure them to see what's going on.
Jeffrey
Okay, that sounds great. I'll see about finding a bigger board to fit the parts on, that shouldn't be a problem, then I can just use wire to wire to wire things up and then use something to hold the parts to the board. Then I can simply dissect the inductors off the two boards and make my own.
I think down the road I will replace the inductors but I would like to stick with the ones on the boards now. I realize they are not the best and that Celestion cut costs here, but I want to get the speakers up and running so I can have a listen to them as is and see where they sit. I'd like to compare them to my other speakers (Kef 107s, big IMFs) just to have an idea of where I am going with this with these crossovers. Then I will upgrade slowly and realize the improvements as I go along, which I think is a great way to learn about crossovers.
Question for you - if I am using the 0.14mH inductor for the tweeter, are you saying I need about 47 ohms of resistance? Or is this with a 0.15mH?
Many thanks Alan I very much appreciate your expert advice.. I think this will turn out to be something quite special.
Once we have the crossovers figured out, we will then move on to the dampening inside the cabinets. I want to get the crossovers good to go, then build the preliminary cabinets, slap the drivers in there, fire them up and have a listen and also measure them to see what's going on.
Jeffrey
Replies to #63 and #64 , and more to look at ...
Hey Jeffrey ,
I have added three (_) to parts of your #63 which I will reply to here:-
(3)- 47 ohms is for if you decide to buy a 0.15mH.
I discussed the case for using the Celestion 0.14mH in my #60 ,
and I have looked since and seen that there is 30 ohms available in Mills MRA-5 resistors to use with the 0.14mH.
In reply to your #64:-
the Resistance is connected in Parallel with the tweeter.
A Parallel connected resistor does not attenuate the signal level , unless it is a significantly lower resistance than the Impedance of the tweeter ,
and this one is not.
The Parallel connected resistor is needed to lower the Impedance of the tweeter to the correct amount to match the Inductor in that filter section of the crossover.
Celestion's original tweeter had a lower Impedance than the SEAS 19TFF1 tweeter.
Are you knowledgeable about what "Parallel" and "Series" connections mean in Electrical and Electronics applications ?
Look in this thread:-
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/93055-celestion-66-needs-mid-range-66.html
It is:-
Celestion 66 needs Mid-range
started by:-
Mr_White
Go to Page 66 , #659 , and expand the schematic diagram there -{ not #656 as that diagram has a mistake in it }.
See there is " 27 R " drawn connected to the tweeter - that is a resistor connected in "Parallel".
That is how you must connect the 30 ohm resistor.
For the other resistors shown in the diagram , you will need the:-
1 R ; 1.5 R ; 1.8 R ; and change the 3.3 R to 2.7 R .
You do not need the 82 R or any resistor there.
The 1 R , 1.5 R , 1.8 R , and the substituted 2.7 R , are all connected in "Series" with capacitors ,
but only the 1.8 R is in "Series" with the mid-dome , and that is to reduce its output to match the woofer and tweeter.
The other resistors are to reduce the onset and magnitude of resonances caused by interaction of the capacitors with the inductances
of the voice-coils of the woofer and mid-dome , and similar is needed for the 44's mid-cone - put 2.7 R , { 2.7 ohms } , there.
Which version of the 44 crossover do you have ?
Look at the original Celestion schematics for both versions of the 44 here:-
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/152995-crossover-nightmare-19.html
If the above does not open , then go to the thread:-
Crossover nightmare!!!!!!!
started by:-
lorienblack
and to Page 19 , #188 , and expand the three pages there.
The first page has the Mark II 44 , P.C.C.
The third page has the original 44 , T.B.C.
Which version is your crossover ?
There is a correctly drawn Schematic of the T.B.C. version on Page 15 , #143 - open the File in that post to see an alternate way of drawing it to Celestion's.
This does not show the resistors , because the old capacitors had significant internal resistances , their ESR.
Modern capacitors for quality Audio have very low ESR ,
so when some resistance is needed in the circuit one has to add it in Series with the capacitor.
(1)- Make or buy a board that is minimum 10 inch x 10 inch { 25 cm x 25 cm } ,
and better if larger , such as 10 x 12 or 11 x 12 ,
because ,
(2)- when you buy the new low DCR inductors they will be very large physical size and need to be place distant from each other to sufficiently reduce magnetic coupling ,
so plan now.
Put the 3.3mH in one corner of the new board.
Put the 2.2mH for the woofer filter in an adjacent corner along the 10 inch side.
Put the 2.2mH for the midrange filter in the other adjacent corner , along the 10 inch or longer side.
Put the 0.14mH in the opposite corner diagonally from the 3.3mH , that is furtherest possible from the 3.3mH.
Draw a line along that diagonal and mark the centre of the line.
Put the 0.66mH at that centre point , with its outer diameter equal distances from the 3.3mH and the 0.14mH outer diameters.
Put the capacitors for each filter section near to the inductors for the same filter section.
If you want to stick the components to the board , use a Silicon adhesive ,
because you will be able to cut it later when you change the woofer inductors ,
and it will otherwise hold longer and safer than some other types of adhesives.
There are several formulations of Silicon adhesives available.
Go to a Hardware store and look at all available and choose one that will stick to Ceramic , because that is the insulation on the inductor wire.
All Silicons will stick to the plastic outer of capacitors.
Do NOT stick the resistors to the board - suspend them above the board with their bodies in the air and only their end of wire leads down to the board.
Do NOT use a Super-Glue type adhesive , nor a Hot-Melt adhesive , use a Silicon type.
Simpler is to tie the inductors and capacitors to the board.
For this buy some Nylon cable ties from a Components seller.
Nylon is strong and will not break nor stretch too much when it ages.
Do not use Plastic cable ties , especially not thin ones , as they will break , or stretch over time.
Do NOT use metal wire , even insulated , to hold the components to the board ,
because the wire will conduct the Fields that are generated around the inductors , and that will interfere with the tuning of the crossover.
Do not use Metal bolts through the centre of the inductors.
If you want to use bolts , buy Nylon bolts and nuts from an Electronics' Components store.
You can combine Nylon ties with Silicon adhesive to ensure that nothing breaks loose when the cabinets are moved around - that is the long-term best option.
Use the leads that extend from the components' bodies to do as much of the connecting to each other as possible ,
and only other wire for when the component leads do not reach far enough.
Hey Jeffrey ,
I have added three (_) to parts of your #63 which I will reply to here:-
(3)- 47 ohms is for if you decide to buy a 0.15mH.
I discussed the case for using the Celestion 0.14mH in my #60 ,
and I have looked since and seen that there is 30 ohms available in Mills MRA-5 resistors to use with the 0.14mH.
In reply to your #64:-
the Resistance is connected in Parallel with the tweeter.
A Parallel connected resistor does not attenuate the signal level , unless it is a significantly lower resistance than the Impedance of the tweeter ,
and this one is not.
The Parallel connected resistor is needed to lower the Impedance of the tweeter to the correct amount to match the Inductor in that filter section of the crossover.
Celestion's original tweeter had a lower Impedance than the SEAS 19TFF1 tweeter.
Are you knowledgeable about what "Parallel" and "Series" connections mean in Electrical and Electronics applications ?
Look in this thread:-
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/93055-celestion-66-needs-mid-range-66.html
It is:-
Celestion 66 needs Mid-range
started by:-
Mr_White
Go to Page 66 , #659 , and expand the schematic diagram there -{ not #656 as that diagram has a mistake in it }.
See there is " 27 R " drawn connected to the tweeter - that is a resistor connected in "Parallel".
That is how you must connect the 30 ohm resistor.
For the other resistors shown in the diagram , you will need the:-
1 R ; 1.5 R ; 1.8 R ; and change the 3.3 R to 2.7 R .
You do not need the 82 R or any resistor there.
The 1 R , 1.5 R , 1.8 R , and the substituted 2.7 R , are all connected in "Series" with capacitors ,
but only the 1.8 R is in "Series" with the mid-dome , and that is to reduce its output to match the woofer and tweeter.
The other resistors are to reduce the onset and magnitude of resonances caused by interaction of the capacitors with the inductances
of the voice-coils of the woofer and mid-dome , and similar is needed for the 44's mid-cone - put 2.7 R , { 2.7 ohms } , there.
Which version of the 44 crossover do you have ?
Look at the original Celestion schematics for both versions of the 44 here:-
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/152995-crossover-nightmare-19.html
If the above does not open , then go to the thread:-
Crossover nightmare!!!!!!!
started by:-
lorienblack
and to Page 19 , #188 , and expand the three pages there.
The first page has the Mark II 44 , P.C.C.
The third page has the original 44 , T.B.C.
Which version is your crossover ?
There is a correctly drawn Schematic of the T.B.C. version on Page 15 , #143 - open the File in that post to see an alternate way of drawing it to Celestion's.
This does not show the resistors , because the old capacitors had significant internal resistances , their ESR.
Modern capacitors for quality Audio have very low ESR ,
so when some resistance is needed in the circuit one has to add it in Series with the capacitor.
(1)- Make or buy a board that is minimum 10 inch x 10 inch { 25 cm x 25 cm } ,
and better if larger , such as 10 x 12 or 11 x 12 ,
because ,
(2)- when you buy the new low DCR inductors they will be very large physical size and need to be place distant from each other to sufficiently reduce magnetic coupling ,
so plan now.
Put the 3.3mH in one corner of the new board.
Put the 2.2mH for the woofer filter in an adjacent corner along the 10 inch side.
Put the 2.2mH for the midrange filter in the other adjacent corner , along the 10 inch or longer side.
Put the 0.14mH in the opposite corner diagonally from the 3.3mH , that is furtherest possible from the 3.3mH.
Draw a line along that diagonal and mark the centre of the line.
Put the 0.66mH at that centre point , with its outer diameter equal distances from the 3.3mH and the 0.14mH outer diameters.
Put the capacitors for each filter section near to the inductors for the same filter section.
If you want to stick the components to the board , use a Silicon adhesive ,
because you will be able to cut it later when you change the woofer inductors ,
and it will otherwise hold longer and safer than some other types of adhesives.
There are several formulations of Silicon adhesives available.
Go to a Hardware store and look at all available and choose one that will stick to Ceramic , because that is the insulation on the inductor wire.
All Silicons will stick to the plastic outer of capacitors.
Do NOT stick the resistors to the board - suspend them above the board with their bodies in the air and only their end of wire leads down to the board.
Do NOT use a Super-Glue type adhesive , nor a Hot-Melt adhesive , use a Silicon type.
Simpler is to tie the inductors and capacitors to the board.
For this buy some Nylon cable ties from a Components seller.
Nylon is strong and will not break nor stretch too much when it ages.
Do not use Plastic cable ties , especially not thin ones , as they will break , or stretch over time.
Do NOT use metal wire , even insulated , to hold the components to the board ,
because the wire will conduct the Fields that are generated around the inductors , and that will interfere with the tuning of the crossover.
Do not use Metal bolts through the centre of the inductors.
If you want to use bolts , buy Nylon bolts and nuts from an Electronics' Components store.
You can combine Nylon ties with Silicon adhesive to ensure that nothing breaks loose when the cabinets are moved around - that is the long-term best option.
Use the leads that extend from the components' bodies to do as much of the connecting to each other as possible ,
and only other wire for when the component leads do not reach far enough.
Last edited:
Hey Alan,
Thanks again for all of your help. We are getting closer and closer
I am familiar with parallel and serial connections so no problems there. I am not all that familiar with crossovers though, at most I have replaced capacitors but never designed one or replaced with different drivers. This is new for me, but I am learning.
The version I have are the original ones, they are the dark orange boards that do not have a printed circuit board and use wire to wire for the connections.
I'll definitely go with nylon ties and silicon adhesive, that sounds like the tidiest and best way to go about this.
For the boards, should I use some sort of hard plastic PCB-like board, or should I just use a piece of wood? What would be best here?
I'm going to attempt to draw up what the crossover will look like and possibly a schematic.. have not attempted to do so before but may as well give it a shot.
Thanks again for all of your help. We are getting closer and closer
I am familiar with parallel and serial connections so no problems there. I am not all that familiar with crossovers though, at most I have replaced capacitors but never designed one or replaced with different drivers. This is new for me, but I am learning.
The version I have are the original ones, they are the dark orange boards that do not have a printed circuit board and use wire to wire for the connections.
I'll definitely go with nylon ties and silicon adhesive, that sounds like the tidiest and best way to go about this.
For the boards, should I use some sort of hard plastic PCB-like board, or should I just use a piece of wood? What would be best here?
I'm going to attempt to draw up what the crossover will look like and possibly a schematic.. have not attempted to do so before but may as well give it a shot.
Hey Alan,
Some observations I'm making as I examine both crossover schematics.
The midrange inductor is rated for 2.0mH on the T.B.C. version of the Ditton 44 x-over (which is what I have), and the bass inductor on the 66 T.B.C. is 3.5mH and not 3.3mH. Will the 2.2mH inductor on the 66 crossover be more suitable as well as the ferrite-cored 3.3mH inductor of the 44?
Some observations I'm making as I examine both crossover schematics.
The midrange inductor is rated for 2.0mH on the T.B.C. version of the Ditton 44 x-over (which is what I have), and the bass inductor on the 66 T.B.C. is 3.5mH and not 3.3mH. Will the 2.2mH inductor on the 66 crossover be more suitable as well as the ferrite-cored 3.3mH inductor of the 44?
Now assuming you want me to use the bass section and HF section from the 66 crossover, and the midrange section from the 44 crossover, then use the modified crossover schematic provided on the celestion 66 needs mid-range, this is essentially my parts list:
Bass:
-3.5mH inductor (from C. 66 xover)
-2.2mH inductor (from C. 66 xover
-1ohm resistor
-1.5ohm resistor
-2x 72uF capacitor
-FC12 bass driver (from C. 25)
Midrange:
-0.66mH inductor (from C. 44 xover)
-2.0mH inductor (from C. 44 xover)
-1.8ohm resistor
-2.7ohm resistor
-24uF capacitor
-6uF capacitor
-FC6 midrange driver (from C. 44)
Tweeter:
-0.14mH inductor (from C. 66)
-30ohm resistor
-3.6uF capacitor
-11uF capacitor
-Seas 19TFF1 tweeter
How am I doing? Did I get it right?
Bass:
-3.5mH inductor (from C. 66 xover)
-2.2mH inductor (from C. 66 xover
-1ohm resistor
-1.5ohm resistor
-2x 72uF capacitor
-FC12 bass driver (from C. 25)
Midrange:
-0.66mH inductor (from C. 44 xover)
-2.0mH inductor (from C. 44 xover)
-1.8ohm resistor
-2.7ohm resistor
-24uF capacitor
-6uF capacitor
-FC6 midrange driver (from C. 44)
Tweeter:
-0.14mH inductor (from C. 66)
-30ohm resistor
-3.6uF capacitor
-11uF capacitor
-Seas 19TFF1 tweeter
How am I doing? Did I get it right?
OK so one more question - the schematic crossover posted in celestion 66 needs Mid-range, p. 66 #659, are these resistor ratings accomodating polypropylene capacitors lower ESR as well as balancing the output of the drivers? I'm assuming so since they are wired in series with the capacitors.
Also, for the bass section, the poly caps for the 72uF are very expensive with Solen, I'm looking at around $90 for just those capacitors. Unfortunately my budget doesn't allow for this, and I would like to stick with clarity cap polys for the mid and treble, so if I decide to go with Alcap 100V for bass section do I remove the resistors wired in series?
Otherwise I'm looking at going solen for all 3 to reduce costs.
Thanks.
Also, for the bass section, the poly caps for the 72uF are very expensive with Solen, I'm looking at around $90 for just those capacitors. Unfortunately my budget doesn't allow for this, and I would like to stick with clarity cap polys for the mid and treble, so if I decide to go with Alcap 100V for bass section do I remove the resistors wired in series?
Otherwise I'm looking at going solen for all 3 to reduce costs.
Thanks.
Last edited:
replies to Posts #66 to #70 from Page 7
Hi Jeffrey ,
I will reply to your parts list by typing in the quote box below , with comments after each <--- there.
Do not worry about the slightly different inductance values between the 2 versions of the 44s' x-overs , 2.0mH and 3.3mH versus the 2.2mH and 3.5mH in the 66 crossover.
Those 44 inductors are low DCR.
The 66 inductors are higher DCR.
Higher DCR in the circuit to the driver needs higher inductance for the filters to work at the same frequencies.
The Celestion original documents for both versions of the 66 are here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/93055-celestion-66-needs-mid-range-17.html
which is #162 by rwtomkins on Page 17 of the 66 midrange thread.
In the first File is the P.C.C. Mark II x-over , and rwtomkins' mistake stating HARD WIRED , which it is not , it is the Printed Circuit Connection version.
In the third File is the T.B.C. first 66 x-over , and is the Tag Board Connection , not rwtomkins' mistake of PRINTED CIRCUIT BOARD.
The resistors are to accomodate the ESR and to balance the output of the drivers.
If you change the two Celestion inductors in the woofer filter later to lower DCR there will be higher output from the woofer ,
so then you will need to reduce the 1.8 ohms Series resistor in the mid-range filter , unless you prefer lower midrange then.
Then , first I would try with no resistor there , and then if excess output I would put in 0.47 ohm , and only use as high as 1 ohm if still excess midrange.
Do not remove the other resistors then.
Possibly the 2.7 ohm may need to be increased then to about 3.3 ohm.
Post about this in the future if you change the woofer inductors.
You will not need to change any of the other inductors.
There are no 72uF Poly caps available.
Falcon in the UK has a 70uF Solen poly, but it is large size as 400 volt rated , and is expensive.
One alternate is to use 68uF for the output cap , and 75uF for the central cap , as is in one of the 66 hand drawn schematics in the 66 thread ,
but there are no lower price 68uF caps than those on the Solen.ca web-site which I think are the caps you are refering to as too expensive.
A much lower price alternate with caps equally as good is to use AXON True Caps from:
Parts ConneXion - The authority on hi-fi DIY parts and components
which is in Canada , so low Shipping cost to you ,
and they stock all the resistors you need in Mills MRA-5 .
Use 2 of 36uF connected in Parallel to sum to 72uF ,
as is shown in one of the hand-drawn diagrams in the 66 midrange thread.
An alternate at same Total prices is to connect AXON 33uF in Parallel with 39uF to sum to 72uF.
I recommend you buy 2 of 36 ; 1 of 33 ; 1 of 39 for each crossover ,
because that allows you to change the positions of 2 of the caps later to try an alternate of filtering that may work a little better:
33uF Parallel 36uF to 69uF for the output cap , and 36uF Parallel 39uF to 75uF for the central cap.
If you decide to buy that way , start with the pair of 36uF in the output position and the 33//39 in the central position.
Use 1 resistor for each Pair of capacitors , as shown in one of the hand-drawn diagrams.
I do not recommend AXON for the midrange and tweeter , as that new SEAS tweeter will reveal the caps' limitations ,
as also will the mid-cone if still in good condition , because the Human ear is most sensitive to Midrange quality.
PartsConnexion have some ClarityCap low priced PX series caps , but not all the values you need.
There is NO 3.6uF ClarityCap available in Canada or USA - for 3.6uF in PX you will have to buy from Germany via Mailorder.
The other ClarityCap values are all available in PX series from:
Madisound Speaker Components: distributor of loudspeaker drivers and parts for speaker builders.
but 12uF instead of 11uF ,
however if you order these include a request in their on-line order box to measure some samples of 12uF and send 2 that measure less than 12
- that will be close enough for no audible problem.
Buy the 25uF for 24uF , and it does not need to be selected measuring less.
Madisound do not have as good resistors.
Sonic Craft High-End DIY Audio Parts
is the only USA seller of 3.6uF , { in their SonCap GenI , 200 volt series }.
SonicCraft sell Mills MRA-5 for lower price than Parts Connexion ,
so you could save 8 dollars there , and put that to buying the minimum order size there so as to not be charged the Handling fee.
Also , they have 6uf , and Madisound do not.
Enquire there first whether Canada is considered Domestic or International for the minimum and the handling.
I recommend you do not use Alcaps , because they have limited life ,
and their high Dielectric Absorption will cause colouration to the sound.
You would have a different sonic signature to the woofer section , a bit muddy , than to the mids and treble with the clear sounding poly caps.
ClarityCap PX series are about half the price of SoniCap GenI.
If you want to buy everything from a single seller , then you will have to buy from Germany.
I did a calculation Total including the lowest price Poly caps for the woofer section and ClarityCap PX for mids and treble , plus resistors.
All parts is 143 Euro , about 197 Canadian dollars , plus Shipping is 69 Euro , about 95 CAD ,
but as your order will weigh less than 1 Kilo the seller may reduce the Shipping to a little under half that price if you ask and list the order to them to decide.
They did this for an International buyer I know.
For new boards , simplest is to use MDF , which is a resin bonded wood substance.
use at least 5mm <---> 6mm thick , about quarter inch , not thinner.
Drill holes through it where you want to put the Cable Ties , and to push the components' lead wire through if you decide to connect them on the opposite side of the board.
MDF must be roughened with coarse grit sandpaper in the areas where you intend to put the Silicon adhesive ,
because most adhesives will not remain tightly stuck to smooth MDF.
Do not get water or finger-grease on the roughened areas - brush the dust off with a dry brush.
Silicon will not stick to water damp or grease or oil.
Low priced PCB is not Plastic - it is a resin-bonded substance like Phenolic.
It is OK , but better is Teflon PCB though expensive ,
and good is Fibreglass PCB if you can find any.
Look in PartsConnexion under:
Terminal Strips , then to Terminal(Tag)Boards to "Connex" brand.
The 225mm length will be sufficient for the woofer filter with one inductor at each end ,
and probably the 225mm will be OK for a second board for the mids plus tweeter filters with 2.2mH at one end , 0.14mH at the other , and 0.66mH in the middle ,
but buy the 300mm length if you want to.
As you have limited Budget , I recommend you spend it on the best caps you can afford ,
and make a MDF boards if a Wood-cutting shop will sell you some small scrap pieces left over after they cut for furniture.
Does your Multimeter measure Capacitance ? ...
and if Yes , then what is the largest Capacitance it will measure ? ...
{ look in the Manual for the Specification }.
Hi Jeffrey ,
I will reply to your parts list by typing in the quote box below , with comments after each <--- there.
Do not worry about the slightly different inductance values between the 2 versions of the 44s' x-overs , 2.0mH and 3.3mH versus the 2.2mH and 3.5mH in the 66 crossover.
Those 44 inductors are low DCR.
The 66 inductors are higher DCR.
Higher DCR in the circuit to the driver needs higher inductance for the filters to work at the same frequencies.
The Celestion original documents for both versions of the 66 are here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/93055-celestion-66-needs-mid-range-17.html
which is #162 by rwtomkins on Page 17 of the 66 midrange thread.
In the first File is the P.C.C. Mark II x-over , and rwtomkins' mistake stating HARD WIRED , which it is not , it is the Printed Circuit Connection version.
In the third File is the T.B.C. first 66 x-over , and is the Tag Board Connection , not rwtomkins' mistake of PRINTED CIRCUIT BOARD.
The resistors are to accomodate the ESR and to balance the output of the drivers.
If you change the two Celestion inductors in the woofer filter later to lower DCR there will be higher output from the woofer ,
so then you will need to reduce the 1.8 ohms Series resistor in the mid-range filter , unless you prefer lower midrange then.
Then , first I would try with no resistor there , and then if excess output I would put in 0.47 ohm , and only use as high as 1 ohm if still excess midrange.
Do not remove the other resistors then.
Possibly the 2.7 ohm may need to be increased then to about 3.3 ohm.
Post about this in the future if you change the woofer inductors.
You will not need to change any of the other inductors.
There are no 72uF Poly caps available.
Falcon in the UK has a 70uF Solen poly, but it is large size as 400 volt rated , and is expensive.
One alternate is to use 68uF for the output cap , and 75uF for the central cap , as is in one of the 66 hand drawn schematics in the 66 thread ,
but there are no lower price 68uF caps than those on the Solen.ca web-site which I think are the caps you are refering to as too expensive.
A much lower price alternate with caps equally as good is to use AXON True Caps from:
Parts ConneXion - The authority on hi-fi DIY parts and components
which is in Canada , so low Shipping cost to you ,
and they stock all the resistors you need in Mills MRA-5 .
Use 2 of 36uF connected in Parallel to sum to 72uF ,
as is shown in one of the hand-drawn diagrams in the 66 midrange thread.
An alternate at same Total prices is to connect AXON 33uF in Parallel with 39uF to sum to 72uF.
I recommend you buy 2 of 36 ; 1 of 33 ; 1 of 39 for each crossover ,
because that allows you to change the positions of 2 of the caps later to try an alternate of filtering that may work a little better:
33uF Parallel 36uF to 69uF for the output cap , and 36uF Parallel 39uF to 75uF for the central cap.
If you decide to buy that way , start with the pair of 36uF in the output position and the 33//39 in the central position.
Use 1 resistor for each Pair of capacitors , as shown in one of the hand-drawn diagrams.
I do not recommend AXON for the midrange and tweeter , as that new SEAS tweeter will reveal the caps' limitations ,
as also will the mid-cone if still in good condition , because the Human ear is most sensitive to Midrange quality.
PartsConnexion have some ClarityCap low priced PX series caps , but not all the values you need.
There is NO 3.6uF ClarityCap available in Canada or USA - for 3.6uF in PX you will have to buy from Germany via Mailorder.
The other ClarityCap values are all available in PX series from:
Madisound Speaker Components: distributor of loudspeaker drivers and parts for speaker builders.
but 12uF instead of 11uF ,
however if you order these include a request in their on-line order box to measure some samples of 12uF and send 2 that measure less than 12
- that will be close enough for no audible problem.
Buy the 25uF for 24uF , and it does not need to be selected measuring less.
Madisound do not have as good resistors.
Sonic Craft High-End DIY Audio Parts
is the only USA seller of 3.6uF , { in their SonCap GenI , 200 volt series }.
SonicCraft sell Mills MRA-5 for lower price than Parts Connexion ,
so you could save 8 dollars there , and put that to buying the minimum order size there so as to not be charged the Handling fee.
Also , they have 6uf , and Madisound do not.
Enquire there first whether Canada is considered Domestic or International for the minimum and the handling.
I recommend you do not use Alcaps , because they have limited life ,
and their high Dielectric Absorption will cause colouration to the sound.
You would have a different sonic signature to the woofer section , a bit muddy , than to the mids and treble with the clear sounding poly caps.
ClarityCap PX series are about half the price of SoniCap GenI.
If you want to buy everything from a single seller , then you will have to buy from Germany.
I did a calculation Total including the lowest price Poly caps for the woofer section and ClarityCap PX for mids and treble , plus resistors.
All parts is 143 Euro , about 197 Canadian dollars , plus Shipping is 69 Euro , about 95 CAD ,
but as your order will weigh less than 1 Kilo the seller may reduce the Shipping to a little under half that price if you ask and list the order to them to decide.
They did this for an International buyer I know.
For new boards , simplest is to use MDF , which is a resin bonded wood substance.
use at least 5mm <---> 6mm thick , about quarter inch , not thinner.
Drill holes through it where you want to put the Cable Ties , and to push the components' lead wire through if you decide to connect them on the opposite side of the board.
MDF must be roughened with coarse grit sandpaper in the areas where you intend to put the Silicon adhesive ,
because most adhesives will not remain tightly stuck to smooth MDF.
Do not get water or finger-grease on the roughened areas - brush the dust off with a dry brush.
Silicon will not stick to water damp or grease or oil.
Low priced PCB is not Plastic - it is a resin-bonded substance like Phenolic.
It is OK , but better is Teflon PCB though expensive ,
and good is Fibreglass PCB if you can find any.
Look in PartsConnexion under:
Terminal Strips , then to Terminal(Tag)Boards to "Connex" brand.
The 225mm length will be sufficient for the woofer filter with one inductor at each end ,
and probably the 225mm will be OK for a second board for the mids plus tweeter filters with 2.2mH at one end , 0.14mH at the other , and 0.66mH in the middle ,
but buy the 300mm length if you want to.
As you have limited Budget , I recommend you spend it on the best caps you can afford ,
and make a MDF boards if a Wood-cutting shop will sell you some small scrap pieces left over after they cut for furniture.
Does your Multimeter measure Capacitance ? ...
and if Yes , then what is the largest Capacitance it will measure ? ...
{ look in the Manual for the Specification }.
Last edited:
A Correction to my mistake in #71 above
Sorry Jeffrey ,
there is one mistake in my post above.
I will correct it below , after the Quote box.
Correction:
Madisound do have 6uF in ClarityCap PX - it is on their list now.
Sorry Jeffrey ,
there is one mistake in my post above.
I will correct it below , after the Quote box.
Correction:
Madisound do have 6uF in ClarityCap PX - it is on their list now.
Last edited:
Excellent thanks Alan, order has been placed.
It's going to be a couple of months before the cabinets get built, we are looking at mid-October, but I am going to see if I can somehow get some dummy cabinets made before then just to get an idea of how they sound.
I've also been doing some tinkering, I put together the crossover using the bass and treble section of the 66 crossover, as well as the C.66 2.2mH inductor, and then I took the midrange 0.66mH inductor as well as the capacitors of that section from the C.44 and made a crossover on a piece of cardboard. I then hooked up the 12" bass, 6" mid and the HF2000 and also did the same with the all original C.66 crossover. Made quite a difference in the midrange and overall balance. I realize this is not an ideal way to listen of course, but it was interesting to hear the difference. It almost seemed like the midrange filter of the C.66 on the C.44 mid was crossing over at a higher frequency causing some frequencies to be "sucked out".
I can't wait to get the new capacitors, resistors and tweeters and to put them together. I think these are going to turn out sounding real nice.
It's going to be a couple of months before the cabinets get built, we are looking at mid-October, but I am going to see if I can somehow get some dummy cabinets made before then just to get an idea of how they sound.
I've also been doing some tinkering, I put together the crossover using the bass and treble section of the 66 crossover, as well as the C.66 2.2mH inductor, and then I took the midrange 0.66mH inductor as well as the capacitors of that section from the C.44 and made a crossover on a piece of cardboard. I then hooked up the 12" bass, 6" mid and the HF2000 and also did the same with the all original C.66 crossover. Made quite a difference in the midrange and overall balance. I realize this is not an ideal way to listen of course, but it was interesting to hear the difference. It almost seemed like the midrange filter of the C.66 on the C.44 mid was crossing over at a higher frequency causing some frequencies to be "sucked out".
I can't wait to get the new capacitors, resistors and tweeters and to put them together. I think these are going to turn out sounding real nice.
different frequency response shapes for the different midrange drivers
Hi Jeffrey ,
yes , I would have expected the midrange to sound different with a different filter for that section ,
because the 66's dome mid-driver has a fairly smooth roll-off from approximately 5kHz ,
and the 44's cone mid-driver has a peak in its response somewhere around 5kHz , and that requires a larger inductor to push down to flat response ,
along with the larger capacitor to reduce the impedance load the inductor sees around the crossover frequency.
Each mid-range filter is designed for a different driver.
Also , the peak in the upper midrange area of the cone driver's output will be at a different Phase Angle to the tweeter's output through the crossover region ,
and will thus cause some cancellation - what you are hearing as a suck-out when you use the 66's filter with the cone-mid.
The Phase Angle is caused by the reactive impedances of the inductances and capacitances in the filter.
Fortunately the dome-mid and the cone-mid are very similar at the other end - the low midrange area - so what looks like the same filter there for both
- 24uF and 2.2mH - works for both drivers ,
BUT , in a Bandpass filter , which is what this midrange filter is , all the components interact with each other ,
and as such the filter shape will be a bit different at the low midrange end for each of the 44 and 66 filters ,
but do not worry , because that small difference is deliberate by Celestion because the cone and the dome are not exactly the same at the low midrange end ,
so the differences in the filters match the differences of the drivers there.
It is good you did the listening experiment , because that is how a person can learn why different drivers need different filters.
I have read two of your other Threads:-
In your "Celestion Ditton 44 sounding muddy" I see that you have Celestion 44 cabinets.
You could test your new crossover with the 44 drivers and the SEAS tweeter in those cabinets.
In your "Crossover cap replacement - just some quick questions" I read the various posts by others about different types of capacitors.
It does make the issue a bit confusing , but some of the participants there may not have heard some of the other capacitor options ,
and the human brain does allocate different priorities to hearing to some people than to others.
We do not all hear the same way.
I have identified at least two very distinct different types of brain-allocation of priorities for replayed sound through loudspeakers with different crossover types.
There will also be differences in preference of the Tone or Timbre of the sound caused by the different construction and assembley of different capacitors
even when all are of the same type , such as if all polypropylene , as well as the distinct difference of Tone caused by Alcaps.
For coherence of sound I think it is better to use the same type of dielectric for all capacitors in a crossover , such as all are polypropylene I recommended to you.
The smaller differences caused by different brands become more obvious when one installs very expensive , hopefully very well made , capacitors in one filter ,
and the lowest price , not as well designed or made , capacitors in another filter of the same crossover.
I recommended for you what in general for a lot of listeners are safe choices of caps for your budget.
The type of sound absorbing material , and how you arrange it within the cabinet ,
will cause some differences to the sound for different types and/or arrangements of the materials.
Post here again after you have done some detailed listening whenever in the future.
A notice of the post will be sent to me.
Hi Jeffrey ,
yes , I would have expected the midrange to sound different with a different filter for that section ,
because the 66's dome mid-driver has a fairly smooth roll-off from approximately 5kHz ,
and the 44's cone mid-driver has a peak in its response somewhere around 5kHz , and that requires a larger inductor to push down to flat response ,
along with the larger capacitor to reduce the impedance load the inductor sees around the crossover frequency.
Each mid-range filter is designed for a different driver.
Also , the peak in the upper midrange area of the cone driver's output will be at a different Phase Angle to the tweeter's output through the crossover region ,
and will thus cause some cancellation - what you are hearing as a suck-out when you use the 66's filter with the cone-mid.
The Phase Angle is caused by the reactive impedances of the inductances and capacitances in the filter.
Fortunately the dome-mid and the cone-mid are very similar at the other end - the low midrange area - so what looks like the same filter there for both
- 24uF and 2.2mH - works for both drivers ,
BUT , in a Bandpass filter , which is what this midrange filter is , all the components interact with each other ,
and as such the filter shape will be a bit different at the low midrange end for each of the 44 and 66 filters ,
but do not worry , because that small difference is deliberate by Celestion because the cone and the dome are not exactly the same at the low midrange end ,
so the differences in the filters match the differences of the drivers there.
It is good you did the listening experiment , because that is how a person can learn why different drivers need different filters.
I have read two of your other Threads:-
In your "Celestion Ditton 44 sounding muddy" I see that you have Celestion 44 cabinets.
You could test your new crossover with the 44 drivers and the SEAS tweeter in those cabinets.
In your "Crossover cap replacement - just some quick questions" I read the various posts by others about different types of capacitors.
It does make the issue a bit confusing , but some of the participants there may not have heard some of the other capacitor options ,
and the human brain does allocate different priorities to hearing to some people than to others.
We do not all hear the same way.
I have identified at least two very distinct different types of brain-allocation of priorities for replayed sound through loudspeakers with different crossover types.
There will also be differences in preference of the Tone or Timbre of the sound caused by the different construction and assembley of different capacitors
even when all are of the same type , such as if all polypropylene , as well as the distinct difference of Tone caused by Alcaps.
For coherence of sound I think it is better to use the same type of dielectric for all capacitors in a crossover , such as all are polypropylene I recommended to you.
The smaller differences caused by different brands become more obvious when one installs very expensive , hopefully very well made , capacitors in one filter ,
and the lowest price , not as well designed or made , capacitors in another filter of the same crossover.
I recommended for you what in general for a lot of listeners are safe choices of caps for your budget.
The type of sound absorbing material , and how you arrange it within the cabinet ,
will cause some differences to the sound for different types and/or arrangements of the materials.
Post here again after you have done some detailed listening whenever in the future.
A notice of the post will be sent to me.
Last edited:
to:- osd1 and jeffrey88
Hi osd1 ,
I refer to your Post above , and to your PM to me which I have copied and pasted in the quote box below.
I will reply to both here - below the quote box.
By "jeff" I am presuming you are refering to "jeffrey88" ..?
For your first question surely jeffrey88 can answer that , and I am surprised he did not inform you.
Click on and open here:-
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/213426-celestion-ditton-44-sounding-muddy-5.html
That is #46 on Page 5 of the thread titled:-
Celestion Ditton 44 sounding muddy
by:-
jeffrey88
There you can see that he has Ditton 44 , clearly obvious in his photographs ,
and there are the drivers !
Why has he not measured the drivers' flanges and cut-outs and informed you ?
Your second question:-
"driver displacement is .01 for the midrange"
- I ask you to clarify , do you mean the volume of space occupied by the driver ?
and ".01" of what ?
Your third question:-
"how much cubic feet of bracing" ?
I reply:-
jeffrey88 has designed the enclosure , thus surely he knows how much bracing ...
The question from your PM to me about the "fc6" midrange driver ,
"jeff" has at least two of these drivers , so why has he not informed you ?
The mid-cones from Ditton 44 I have seen , and all those commented on by owners of such in other threads in diyaudio ,
are all open-back cones.
There were two versions , of which I have seen only the second version.
I posted earlier in this thread some recommendations to jeffrey88 about an enclosure for this mid-cone.
I have some more ideas about that , but before I can comment relevant to jeffrey's design I need to see the drawings for his design.
Hey , your location: " Outskirts of Life " ...
are you up in the Yukon ?
and if so , then good for you , as far away from the troubles of this World , I hope ...
*** *** ***
jeffery88 ,
if you are reading here , please post here all your drawings of your final design for the enclosure/s , { including the separate mid & tweeter box } ,
and include all Dimensions so that we can comment on whatever else may be needed.
Hi osd1 ,
I refer to your Post above , and to your PM to me which I have copied and pasted in the quote box below.
I will reply to both here - below the quote box.
can someone tell me the cut out diameter and mounting flange width so i can build jeff a box.
also is it safe to say driver displacement is .01 for the midrange?
also how much cubic feet of bracing is in the woofer box?
thank ye
{ Your PM }---> quick questions about the ditton 44
hey now.
i was just wondering if the fc6 that is in the ditton 44 is a sealed back driver?
By "jeff" I am presuming you are refering to "jeffrey88" ..?
For your first question surely jeffrey88 can answer that , and I am surprised he did not inform you.
Click on and open here:-
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/213426-celestion-ditton-44-sounding-muddy-5.html
That is #46 on Page 5 of the thread titled:-
Celestion Ditton 44 sounding muddy
by:-
jeffrey88
There you can see that he has Ditton 44 , clearly obvious in his photographs ,
and there are the drivers !
Why has he not measured the drivers' flanges and cut-outs and informed you ?
Your second question:-
"driver displacement is .01 for the midrange"
- I ask you to clarify , do you mean the volume of space occupied by the driver ?
and ".01" of what ?
Your third question:-
"how much cubic feet of bracing" ?
I reply:-
jeffrey88 has designed the enclosure , thus surely he knows how much bracing ...
The question from your PM to me about the "fc6" midrange driver ,
"jeff" has at least two of these drivers , so why has he not informed you ?
The mid-cones from Ditton 44 I have seen , and all those commented on by owners of such in other threads in diyaudio ,
are all open-back cones.
There were two versions , of which I have seen only the second version.
I posted earlier in this thread some recommendations to jeffrey88 about an enclosure for this mid-cone.
I have some more ideas about that , but before I can comment relevant to jeffrey's design I need to see the drawings for his design.
Hey , your location: " Outskirts of Life " ...
are you up in the Yukon ?
and if so , then good for you , as far away from the troubles of this World , I hope ...
*** *** ***
jeffery88 ,
if you are reading here , please post here all your drawings of your final design for the enclosure/s , { including the separate mid & tweeter box } ,
and include all Dimensions so that we can comment on whatever else may be needed.
Last edited:
I have been doing most of the enclosure work, including volume, bracing etc. Normally I would say "ok" and just build. But Jeff is a good friend of mine, and I want to make sure everything is gonna be perfect.
Jeff has provided me information from this post, but he has not provided me with any information on bracing or information on what the actual volume of the woofer enclosure is.
I don't have too much specifics on whats going on inside the enclosure. I have exterior and interior dimension. Thats about it. The last thing I wanna do is build Jeff a box that makes the woofer have a high total q.
I will message you with drawings for the plans when i finish them.
All right so here is where I'm at with this project.
Cabinets are pretty much built, a little bit of tweaking needed to finish them off but they are pretty much done.
I'm having an issue though, and that is the midrange is way too pronounced. Using an EQ, I am reducing the midrange by about 4dB to get it to sound nice. Otherwise it's very "shouty". Any ideas? I'll double check that I wired it up right but I am pretty sure I did.
Cabinets are pretty much built, a little bit of tweaking needed to finish them off but they are pretty much done.
I'm having an issue though, and that is the midrange is way too pronounced. Using an EQ, I am reducing the midrange by about 4dB to get it to sound nice. Otherwise it's very "shouty". Any ideas? I'll double check that I wired it up right but I am pretty sure I did.
Now that I have a few minutes to sit down and give a more detailed write-up..
So, with regards to the Celestion Ditton 44s, I do not own those anymore and haven't for some time. I could never get the midrange to sound right on those and just ended up selling them on.
For the cabinets, a few modifications took place.
For one, the separated cabinets could not be done while retaining the original spacing between the midrange and bass drivers. In fact, using the thicker wood this had to be increased by 0.5" in order to accomodate. Considering the cabinets would be much sturdier and less resonant, I decided to compromise here slightly.
All edges are rounded.
The shape of the enclosure is a rectangle except for the top where it is an octagon shape. This is only for the portion above the tweeter so that the baffle width retains the same 14.5" for all drivers just like in the original design.
All drivers are isolated into their own cabinets. The bass drivers cabinet size was increased by 10% as well to allow for lower frequency extension. The midrange driver cabinet was also increased in volume.
The bass cabinet was braced using 1.5" thick MDF, bracing the sides and top and bottom.
For the crossovers. I decided on Solen capacitors for a couple of reasons. While I appreciate your advice on the brands, the Solens were the best cost for me and I had recently done an upgrade to a pair of Polk LSI9s using Solens and was very pleased with the results. I felt there was no reason not to try them out - I can at the very worst upgrade later on, so no big deal there.
For the crossover arrangement, due to the internal bracing I had to split up the crossover into 3 parts, the bass, midrange and tweeter. This will allow me to space the inductors as far apart as I need and also later on if I wish to bi-amp this will allow for that modification quite easily.
I decided on polyfill (for now) to dampen the cabinets. While not the ideal choice, for its cost it is fairly effective and will do until I can afford some better dampening materials. This is just the start for these speakers, getting them up and running was priority one so I had something to work with.
Upon first wiring them up, I noticed the midrange and bass driver are not totally sealed from each other. This isn't an issue - just a matter of applying more bondo/PVA glue.
Also, I ran into the midrange issue I posted about above. After realizing that resistors are to be wired in series to add the resistance together, not in parallel (thinking like a capacitor here), instantly the sound came into balance.
I spent a good hour and a half last night listening to just the one and am very pleased with how these are coming along. They sound excellent. Today I am getting the other cabinet and will be putting that one together to listen to them in stereo and will post some more in-depth thoughts on the sound.
Pictures to come as well!
So, with regards to the Celestion Ditton 44s, I do not own those anymore and haven't for some time. I could never get the midrange to sound right on those and just ended up selling them on.
For the cabinets, a few modifications took place.
For one, the separated cabinets could not be done while retaining the original spacing between the midrange and bass drivers. In fact, using the thicker wood this had to be increased by 0.5" in order to accomodate. Considering the cabinets would be much sturdier and less resonant, I decided to compromise here slightly.
All edges are rounded.
The shape of the enclosure is a rectangle except for the top where it is an octagon shape. This is only for the portion above the tweeter so that the baffle width retains the same 14.5" for all drivers just like in the original design.
All drivers are isolated into their own cabinets. The bass drivers cabinet size was increased by 10% as well to allow for lower frequency extension. The midrange driver cabinet was also increased in volume.
The bass cabinet was braced using 1.5" thick MDF, bracing the sides and top and bottom.
For the crossovers. I decided on Solen capacitors for a couple of reasons. While I appreciate your advice on the brands, the Solens were the best cost for me and I had recently done an upgrade to a pair of Polk LSI9s using Solens and was very pleased with the results. I felt there was no reason not to try them out - I can at the very worst upgrade later on, so no big deal there.
For the crossover arrangement, due to the internal bracing I had to split up the crossover into 3 parts, the bass, midrange and tweeter. This will allow me to space the inductors as far apart as I need and also later on if I wish to bi-amp this will allow for that modification quite easily.
I decided on polyfill (for now) to dampen the cabinets. While not the ideal choice, for its cost it is fairly effective and will do until I can afford some better dampening materials. This is just the start for these speakers, getting them up and running was priority one so I had something to work with.
Upon first wiring them up, I noticed the midrange and bass driver are not totally sealed from each other. This isn't an issue - just a matter of applying more bondo/PVA glue.
Also, I ran into the midrange issue I posted about above. After realizing that resistors are to be wired in series to add the resistance together, not in parallel (thinking like a capacitor here), instantly the sound came into balance.
I spent a good hour and a half last night listening to just the one and am very pleased with how these are coming along. They sound excellent. Today I am getting the other cabinet and will be putting that one together to listen to them in stereo and will post some more in-depth thoughts on the sound.
Pictures to come as well!
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