Are these the HM130Z0? Can you be more specific about the performance differences? Measurements or subjective or?
Zvu, check out Chuck/isaeagle1031 build called Midnight Magic with the 5FE120 and a Dayton AMT.
Wolf
Wolf
No, the goal was to do them as cheaply as reasonably possible.
I really just knocked them up for my daughter to use at uni.
The 19TFF was cheap, 8Ω and roughly as sensitive as the Faitals so I could get away with the simplest possible crossover and used LR2 at 3.5 or 4k.
Never expected them to be better than the Audax ones to listen to.
Robust too as they survived a number of student house parties. 😉
Lots of interesting stuff here for me to think about, including couple of really promising units I'd never heard of...
A question - the SB acoustics Textreme is the logical fit, but the frequency response curves look all over the place, which is why I didn't choose it originally. How come this doesn't seem to bother people? Has anyone heard it? If it sounds better than it measures, it's ideal.
Why a 5"? Because I've gone for the WOP24 as a bass unit, and that's a bit large to take too far up, no?
A question - the SB acoustics Textreme is the logical fit, but the frequency response curves look all over the place, which is why I didn't choose it originally. How come this doesn't seem to bother people? Has anyone heard it? If it sounds better than it measures, it's ideal.
Why a 5"? Because I've gone for the WOP24 as a bass unit, and that's a bit large to take too far up, no?
Not too good either. Terrible breakups above 2kHz. What range would you use it for?
A Purifi PTT4.0W04-01A could go down to ~300 Hz crossed 4th order, if it's not being asked to do more than about 94 dB @ 1 m or so.
Purifi PTT4.0W04-01A | HiFiCompass
Otherwise, if you don't need the tighter spacing with the tweeter, an SB15NAC30 (or SB15NBAC30) is a better performer for a lot less money.
SB Acoustics SB15NBAC30-4 | HiFiCompass
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Is there a particular reason for not wanting to use the MR13P-8? I'm just curious because I came across Troels SBA-941 page. Seems to work well with the WO24P-8, and has a relatively simple crossover.
jeff
I think that directivity in mid's lowpass range has been ignored in this thread, so far.
A midrange in a 3/4-way loudspeaker is IMO the most important driver regarding final outcome, sound characteristics. Mid range is supposed to take care of the most delicate range where our perception is most sensitive too 1-3kHz.
In order to do this, mid driver should deliver smooth response and low directitivty, and to be small so that interdriver distance can be minimal. Low directivity and smooth change of directivity enable higher xo that what is typical for modern 2-way speakers. As well lower order xo order gives less GD/phase rotation than popular LR4.
Mid's performance in upper bass is not so critical, if we use woofer(s) in front - LR2 xo around 300Hz wlill not stress specific midranges in domestic hifi use.
Directivity is affected mostly by driver's diameter, but cone profile (added with surround roll) is important too. Here as example some drivers, from HifiCompass
Purifi 4"
Satori MR13P
SEAS CA15RJY
A midrange in a 3/4-way loudspeaker is IMO the most important driver regarding final outcome, sound characteristics. Mid range is supposed to take care of the most delicate range where our perception is most sensitive too 1-3kHz.
In order to do this, mid driver should deliver smooth response and low directitivty, and to be small so that interdriver distance can be minimal. Low directivity and smooth change of directivity enable higher xo that what is typical for modern 2-way speakers. As well lower order xo order gives less GD/phase rotation than popular LR4.
Mid's performance in upper bass is not so critical, if we use woofer(s) in front - LR2 xo around 300Hz wlill not stress specific midranges in domestic hifi use.
Directivity is affected mostly by driver's diameter, but cone profile (added with surround roll) is important too. Here as example some drivers, from HifiCompass
Purifi 4"
Satori MR13P
SEAS CA15RJY
littlier is better here...often
...Then you can go for a bigger woofer and a lower 3" midrange and increase a little the cut-off towards 500 hz as well. It also permits to push a little the tweeter frequency cut-off, so bigger tweeter choice, or also reduce the XO slope at iso cut-off.
That's what I made with a SB23 NBAC (LR2) to a SS10F (LR2) in less than 1/4 WL Center to center spacing.
Good trade-off and good enough low cut-off to avoid difraction of the woofer aluminium brake-ups (around 4k hz an a little too high 3H towards 1500 hz) in home listening event.
I'd certainly chose the SB15NAC/NBAC/CAC with a 300 hz cut off with a 10/12" PA woofer if the cabinet was bigger than the targeted bookshelf (28L in mine). But a MTM with a 3/4" tweeter and a lower 300 hz cut-off is still possible with the SS10F, (two units = less cone exurssion😎). But here at 300 hz XO not sure a LR2 would be the best choice for the Scan Speak 10F !
...Then you can go for a bigger woofer and a lower 3" midrange and increase a little the cut-off towards 500 hz as well. It also permits to push a little the tweeter frequency cut-off, so bigger tweeter choice, or also reduce the XO slope at iso cut-off.
That's what I made with a SB23 NBAC (LR2) to a SS10F (LR2) in less than 1/4 WL Center to center spacing.
Good trade-off and good enough low cut-off to avoid difraction of the woofer aluminium brake-ups (around 4k hz an a little too high 3H towards 1500 hz) in home listening event.
I'd certainly chose the SB15NAC/NBAC/CAC with a 300 hz cut off with a 10/12" PA woofer if the cabinet was bigger than the targeted bookshelf (28L in mine). But a MTM with a 3/4" tweeter and a lower 300 hz cut-off is still possible with the SS10F, (two units = less cone exurssion😎). But here at 300 hz XO not sure a LR2 would be the best choice for the Scan Speak 10F !
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Well check out the Vifa NE123W-08. It's a midwoofer, an only 86dB/2.83V
Vifa NE123W-08 | HiFiCompass
But used in pairs as a midrange between ~400Hz and 3.5Khz, it's fantastic in the Statement II speaker by Jim Holtz and Curt Campbell.
Speaker Design Works
High performance.reasonable price, svelte dimensions. In room response to 20Hz. 88.5dB/2.83V. Max SPL 100dB. Hard to complain.
Vifa NE123W-08 | HiFiCompass
But used in pairs as a midrange between ~400Hz and 3.5Khz, it's fantastic in the Statement II speaker by Jim Holtz and Curt Campbell.
Speaker Design Works
High performance.reasonable price, svelte dimensions. In room response to 20Hz. 88.5dB/2.83V. Max SPL 100dB. Hard to complain.
Attachments
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BMS have a 5" midrange: http://www.bmsspeakers.com/fileadmin/bms-data/product_data_2012/bms_5s117_t_data_2012-01.pdf
looks good to me 91dB/2.83V
looks good to me 91dB/2.83V
How about Zaph Audio ZA14? It is available from Madisound and is praised by many..
Zaph Audio ZA14W08 5" Aluminum Cone Mid/Woofer
Zaph|Audio - ZA14W08 Woofer
Not very nice directivity...
Zaph Audio ZA14W08 5" Aluminum Cone Mid/Woofer
Zaph|Audio - ZA14W08 Woofer
Not very nice directivity...
Well, the ZA14, as many cones with quite obvious breakup modes under 10k, has to be crossed over somewhere around 2-2,5k, preferably with a steep (even elliptical) lowpass. The directivity up to about 3kHz is quite predictable and above that the tweeter will dominate the response. Combine it (for instance) with a H1499 which essentially does the same at 2 to 2,5kHz and things will be allright (apart from baffle diffraction).
Have you compared the HD close range at 8V of the ZA14 compared to that Satori? The Zaph runs circles around the SB at a third of the price.
Hello! Does somebuddy know where to get these cool baskets? (ZA14) Taiwan, somewhere?
Thiel/Accuton uses them too (C158) maybe along some other manufactures ...
I want to build my own drivers! (no joke)
Thiel/Accuton uses them too (C158) maybe along some other manufactures ...
I want to build my own drivers! (no joke)
In the midrange (above 300 Hz overall)?
If so:
Higher order is more important (5th in particular).
Satori MW13TX-8 | HiFiCompass
Zaph Audio ZA14W08 | HiFiCompass
