A large part due to distribution. Prices increased on the order of 3x, before pricing was similar to Sonindo (which can still be purchased direct). That based on the price of the Magnus that our client obtained before distribution.
Increased price will mean they sell fewer, but that is countered by more sales due to more local availability and they lose the need to ship out small number of drivers to individuals.
dave
Another alignment that I am considering is a slot loaded open baffle (SLOB) for the bass duties. Maybe using 8x 6.5in woofers in a U folded OB cabinet for smaller footprint. F8 Neo on top and maybe 1st order crossover about 150Hz. Could make it outrageously heavy with a granite baffle and base. The look would be consistent. For the woofers some nice smooth Scan Speak or SBA with circa 35Hz Fs and strong motors. Wired series parallel would put the bass output about on par with output of F8 top.
Something like this?
Push-Push Dipole Concept
It was designed to use up a lot of 6.5” midbasses.
dave
More like this:
Cheap and FAST OB, Literally
I found that the bass was very clean and tight. Doesn’t pressurize the room but if you sat lose enough, had huge impact.
Woofers:
Full range top:
Combined:
This was cardboard and six $5 woofers plus a $12 fullrange and it sounded amazing. Imagine nice hard wood or granite baffle and 8 Satori 6.5in woofers plus F8 Neo on top.
Cheap and FAST OB, Literally
I found that the bass was very clean and tight. Doesn’t pressurize the room but if you sat lose enough, had huge impact.
Woofers:
Full range top:
Combined:
This was cardboard and six $5 woofers plus a $12 fullrange and it sounded amazing. Imagine nice hard wood or granite baffle and 8 Satori 6.5in woofers plus F8 Neo on top.
I imagined a variation of one of Danny Richie's designs, NX-Otica or NX-Treme substituting mids and tweeter for the Cube driver. Although I can't imagine why in that Cube drivers are supposed to do bass better than most WB FR drivers (WRT bass PHY-HP comes to mind ... and I used to think those now extinct drives were expensive).Something like this?
Push-Push Dipole Concept
It was designed to use up a lot of 6.5” midbasses.
dave
"due to distribution"?...no doubt when buying direct from the source of assembly, there is those shipping costs noted & added towards your final tally & it is an infinitesimal cost to have an employee ship them out."our client"?
I respectfully submit that since you have vested alternate interests, agendas & motivations, you recuse yourself from your posting as a moderator.
Let us see how these Cube 8 inch do in an eight-stack line-array. Will it sound 44,000 dollars worth?...I don't think so.
--------------------------------------------------------------------Rick........
Awesome! 😀
I've made full size cardboard mock-ups before, but I'd never thought of making one of them into an actual working proof-of-concept loudpeaker.
Thanks, KenNewton! That was a fun speaker and I had extra thick 3ply corrugated from a piano. I have always wanted to revisit this concept with a proper wood cabinet.
Rest easy, you've misunderstood Dave's post. What he is referring to is that two years ago, he and I were asked (exactly like X has been in this thread) by a client to produce a design for his F8 Magus. Said client obtained his drive units before Cube shifted to a dealership distribution model and were selling direct, thus he paid significantly less than the current retail price. Dave was simply stating a fact: when Cube's drivers were sold direct, they were much cheaper than they now retail for, for the usual well-known reasons involved in a distribution & dealership sales approach.
Just to draw a line under this and make it crystal clear, Dave has zero involvement with Cube, has never purchased a pair of their drive units and is not a distributor or dealer for them. Nor have I. For the sake of interest (not that it's actually anybody else's business) over the past couple of weeks he and I been discussing possible expansions to our various plan-set offerings, and we both concluded that Cube are not a high priority given the product cost, which puts them out of reach of many people. We do not have an active interest in developing enclosures for them, and are only likely to do so if we receive a commission. They are certainly amongst the better examples of their type (expensive 8in - 10in etc. whizzer cone widebands), but priced toward the 'luxury' sector.
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If anyone knows of a third party or private measurement of the F8 Neo, please let me know. If it’s anything like Magus, I am afraid that won’t work. My client does want great sound, the promise of that based on factory response curve and the glowing video recommendations. However, if reality is going to be closer to Magus (which I fear it is, can’t get away from whizzer cones behaving like whizzer cones), my client may take a different approach altogether.
F8 v Neo
First of all, I am the importer/distributor of Cube Audio. I guess that makes me biased, but also the most experienced user here.
The Magus is a considerably different driver than the Neo. I found that the proper cabling really helped that driver. It sounded towards the thin side, with too much attack and not enough decay, with most high quality wires. Jena wire really calmed it down and made it very enjoyable.
The Neo is a much better driver. Not as sensitive to cabling, more low level detail presenting more tone and ambiance. The attack/decay ratio is proper, with instruments presenting the initial transient as well as the following harmonics properly.
Both should be listened to slightly off axis where the response is smoother. Nelson Pass is using his SLOB design with a fairly low crossover point, I believe it was about 75 hz. It seems to enjoy this configuration. Nelson is considering a custom crossover to use the Cube with the SLOB.
First of all, I am the importer/distributor of Cube Audio. I guess that makes me biased, but also the most experienced user here.
The Magus is a considerably different driver than the Neo. I found that the proper cabling really helped that driver. It sounded towards the thin side, with too much attack and not enough decay, with most high quality wires. Jena wire really calmed it down and made it very enjoyable.
The Neo is a much better driver. Not as sensitive to cabling, more low level detail presenting more tone and ambiance. The attack/decay ratio is proper, with instruments presenting the initial transient as well as the following harmonics properly.
Both should be listened to slightly off axis where the response is smoother. Nelson Pass is using his SLOB design with a fairly low crossover point, I believe it was about 75 hz. It seems to enjoy this configuration. Nelson is considering a custom crossover to use the Cube with the SLOB.
Thank you for your feedback Jon Ver Halen. Would you happen to have any measurement data for from users on F8 New that is not so deeply smoothed like the factory curves?
A 75Hz crossover is a subwoofer crossing point as it is omnidirectional below 80Hz - I find it odd because I don't think any full range driver can get to 75Hz as an open baffle (even a 3 ft wide one as Mr Pass has on his SLOB). I think Mr Pass used 160Hz on the one in his SLOB article which used a Lowther.
The concern that my client has, is that the F8 Neo, despite the very nice looking smooth frequency response provided by the manufacturer, may in fact, be hiding huge spikes and breakup modes like the Magus. These features are normal on whizzer cone drivers.
Magus independent party measurement:
Let's compare this with a no-whizzer cone 95dB sensitive "full range" driver that I measured myself a few years back (5MR450NDY in 12in wide OB):
A 75Hz crossover is a subwoofer crossing point as it is omnidirectional below 80Hz - I find it odd because I don't think any full range driver can get to 75Hz as an open baffle (even a 3 ft wide one as Mr Pass has on his SLOB). I think Mr Pass used 160Hz on the one in his SLOB article which used a Lowther.
The concern that my client has, is that the F8 Neo, despite the very nice looking smooth frequency response provided by the manufacturer, may in fact, be hiding huge spikes and breakup modes like the Magus. These features are normal on whizzer cone drivers.
Magus independent party measurement:
Let's compare this with a no-whizzer cone 95dB sensitive "full range" driver that I measured myself a few years back (5MR450NDY in 12in wide OB):
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@XRKaudio, F8 Neo plus eight ScanSpeak woofers, x-over components, materials, design cost and assembly is quite an outlay of funds.
May I suggest rather than your client walking into this a$$ backwards that your client fly to Chicago, visit Jon V H, audition the Cube audio speakers and expierance their sonic signatures first hand?
May I suggest rather than your client walking into this a$$ backwards that your client fly to Chicago, visit Jon V H, audition the Cube audio speakers and expierance their sonic signatures first hand?
Neo
Unfortunately I do not have unsmoothed curved to share. Since I was not involved with Nelsons placing the Cubes, I do not know the basis for which he set the crossover, he only shared the results with me.
I do have a 60 day money back guarantee of satisfaction. If they don't work to your satisfaction, just send them back for a full refund.
And to answer the question about too much attack, it is the ratio of attack to decay I am in reference too. When there is too much attack to decay it is typically called over-damped, when there is too little attack to decay it is called under-damped.
Jon
Unfortunately I do not have unsmoothed curved to share. Since I was not involved with Nelsons placing the Cubes, I do not know the basis for which he set the crossover, he only shared the results with me.
I do have a 60 day money back guarantee of satisfaction. If they don't work to your satisfaction, just send them back for a full refund.
And to answer the question about too much attack, it is the ratio of attack to decay I am in reference too. When there is too much attack to decay it is typically called over-damped, when there is too little attack to decay it is called under-damped.
Jon
Hi Helmut,
hot sibilants are inherent in most large fullrange drivers and are controllable, much better than breakups lower in frequency. Some enjoy them as they are (and avoid music that evokes the sharpness - a single guitar could sound quite good), some tame them with toe-in (and loose the extreme treble that way), some tame them with "warm" sounding tube amps.
In my personal opinion only, the best way to control such behaviour is a carefully selected passive filter circuit of high quality. A small rise in the treble region is wanted, a few dB´s to care for the power response, but not 10 or 15 dB as to be seen from honest measurements. There have been attempts to control fullrange drivers with DSP, equalized to flat on axis - that doesnt sond good to me.
You have invested quite some money for the drivers - getting them "right" would require some measurement equipment and a little bit of time, then a handful of crossover parts. Despite other opinions, I don´t think you´re loosing the positive aspects of a fullrange driver this way.
You´ll have to find the right balance for yourself - and even then, quite a few records will remain not nice to listen to, source quality is always a factor to have in mind.
Even an expensive fullrange driver is a compromise.
Of course this is only my personal experience, and others may disagree.
All the best
Mattes