Hi Ken Newton,
Thanks for pointing that out. Actually, no because I was looking at 8in as smaller and having better polars and less beaming than an 8in, but will look at it now. The magnet needs a bit more room in the back but I don’t think that’s a problem. Will have to run a simulation and see how it looks if TS parameters are all in line with the Neo version. Doesn’t look as sexy though and that, might be more important than I might have guessed. Will see what the customer thinks about it. If we decide to go with a FAST/WAW alignment, the 8in might be better.
Thanks for pointing that out. Actually, no because I was looking at 8in as smaller and having better polars and less beaming than an 8in, but will look at it now. The magnet needs a bit more room in the back but I don’t think that’s a problem. Will have to run a simulation and see how it looks if TS parameters are all in line with the Neo version. Doesn’t look as sexy though and that, might be more important than I might have guessed. Will see what the customer thinks about it. If we decide to go with a FAST/WAW alignment, the 8in might be better.
Looking at the 8in Magus ferrite driver now. It appears superior to the Neo in the numbers and graphs alone. Looks smoother with a +5dB bump at 10kHz rather than 10dB, and is 3dB more sensitive. The cone is more conventional looking single whizzer and pointy phase plug we have seen in other designs. Reminiscent of a Dayton PS225-8 ($99) 🙂 [PS220 has an ear-ripping 15dB peak at 3.5kHz though]
Cube Audio has to do something about the fancy graphics on their website. It loads slowly with each mouse click taking 30 seconds. Unbearable so I have to copy the images and data to my own here for quick reference.
Cube Audio has to do something about the fancy graphics on their website. It loads slowly with each mouse click taking 30 seconds. Unbearable so I have to copy the images and data to my own here for quick reference.
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You're not kidding about that blasted flash (or whatever it is) site. It's a pain. The old one wasn't as pretty but it was a bit easier to navigate without wondering if your browser has crashed.
F8 Magus vis-a-vis the F8 Neo?
Hard to directly compare the frequency / amplitude graphs as they're on different scales & different levels of smoothing, but the Magus seems cleaner through the top end; at worst it doesn't look like it would give much away to its pricier stablemate when measured in the same conditions. Slightly higher sensitivity also although the nominal rating is a bit high for the published spec., (but roughly in line for a 1KHz nominal or average).
For the rest, Q, Vas, Fs are similar; same VC gap & coil length based on published Xmax, so from a box design perspective much of a muchness. I prefer the 6ohm nominal impedance for the Magus. The Neo's rated 10ohms isn't a particularly big deal but 6ohms keeps most amplifiers happy. None of which necessarily tells us everything about the presentation, although it says a lot. That twin-whzzer of the Neo will behave a bit differently to the more conventional single-whizzer Magus though, which is probably one reason they've altered the central plug profile.
A long-winded way of saying -yes. I think so. Also a question of taste, obviously, but I'd be inclined to give the nod to the Magus on paper, and definitely given the price difference. Be interesting to use the Neo cone on the Magus motor if the coil, suspension fit. I'm prepared to revise this view in light of additional data or experience of course -I know the Magus, I haven't heard or seen the Neo in person.
Hard to directly compare the frequency / amplitude graphs as they're on different scales & different levels of smoothing, but the Magus seems cleaner through the top end; at worst it doesn't look like it would give much away to its pricier stablemate when measured in the same conditions. Slightly higher sensitivity also although the nominal rating is a bit high for the published spec., (but roughly in line for a 1KHz nominal or average).
For the rest, Q, Vas, Fs are similar; same VC gap & coil length based on published Xmax, so from a box design perspective much of a muchness. I prefer the 6ohm nominal impedance for the Magus. The Neo's rated 10ohms isn't a particularly big deal but 6ohms keeps most amplifiers happy. None of which necessarily tells us everything about the presentation, although it says a lot. That twin-whzzer of the Neo will behave a bit differently to the more conventional single-whizzer Magus though, which is probably one reason they've altered the central plug profile.
A long-winded way of saying -yes. I think so. Also a question of taste, obviously, but I'd be inclined to give the nod to the Magus on paper, and definitely given the price difference. Be interesting to use the Neo cone on the Magus motor if the coil, suspension fit. I'm prepared to revise this view in light of additional data or experience of course -I know the Magus, I haven't heard or seen the Neo in person.
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The impression I had last year when looking at Cube's website, only Helmet telling us about Magnus sibilant issue and not hearing any such talk WRT the F10 Neo in the AVS review has me thinking otherwise, although Peter B did say F10 neo is extremely revealing which could be another way of saying if the recording is full of vocal sibilants you will hear it to a fault!
Cube did just that between the standard F10 driver and F10 Neo.
I'm guessing the Magnus doesn't have F8 Neo double whizzer cone because it's an older design predating the new F8 Neo driver?
Did you experience the annoying sibilants @HelmutHolz reported?
Too much smoothing of the FR data then. Sibilance will usually show up as as a peak or strong bump near 5kHz to 10kHz. I see no such bump in the factory data. No surprise there.
Quite possibly. 😉 Then again, we're also talking about different size drive units so comparisons are problematic.
Right.
Yes, the neo unit is a newer model; until it was introduced the F8 Magus was their high-end 8in, above the FC8 (and a now discontinued predecessor).
Not really, but with the caveats that
-I didn't have an extended amount of time with them
-To date I've been lucky enough not to be overly sensitive to sibilants (many are), and
-I tend to assess drive units within their own context -in this case as an expensive whizzer cone 8in wideband. Within that category, it's one of the better examples of the type I've encountered and I'd take it in preference to many other such units.
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Can someone tell me whats up with the seam in Cube's cones? They look put together like a water dispenser dixi-cup. Not at all what I'd expect to see of an expensive hi-end driver.
It is a rolled up yellow paper cone aka Dixie cup. Having an custom paper cone formed from pulp in a curved mold would be another way to do it. As I recall, the famous Yamaha NS10 studio monitors have a rolled white paper cone too.
Yes, and when Misco's Bold North project set out to make NS10 replacements, they found they had to make the cone that way, or they did not have the same tone.
So a seam is definitely nothing to sneeze at.
So a seam is definitely nothing to sneeze at.
Yikes, that 0deg peak is a real ear-ripper! 🙂
The peaks at 2kHz and 3.9kHz are probably what’s contributing to the sibilance.
That’s a lot of energy hanging around and taking it’s sweet time to slowly wear out in the higher octaves. What I call sonic “bloom”.
I wonder how the Neo compares?
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Hello,
talking about hot sibilants I have to confess, that I am very sensitive to them. Building audio equipment has for me always the goal to avoid hot highs. So my taste may be or may be not comparable to some one else taste.
I measured my Magus with ARTA while listening to music. The anoying highs apear (where audible) while I can see peaks in the area obove about 8 kHz.
Actually I finalize the clone of LX-Mini with the values for the Magus, taken from a post Nelson placed last September. It's a pitty that I have to take the Magus away from my TQWT, but I am convinced that this are good speakers, I just have to tame them a little bit. So I may use them in an OB, the woofers are already in place.
br
Helmut
talking about hot sibilants I have to confess, that I am very sensitive to them. Building audio equipment has for me always the goal to avoid hot highs. So my taste may be or may be not comparable to some one else taste.
I measured my Magus with ARTA while listening to music. The anoying highs apear (where audible) while I can see peaks in the area obove about 8 kHz.
Actually I finalize the clone of LX-Mini with the values for the Magus, taken from a post Nelson placed last September. It's a pitty that I have to take the Magus away from my TQWT, but I am convinced that this are good speakers, I just have to tame them a little bit. So I may use them in an OB, the woofers are already in place.
br
Helmut
Wow, those measurements look quite different than those on cube's pages.
I guess independent measurements are always a good idea.
Frankly, looking at it, its nothing different or special. Typical high efficiency full range with all the warts. I see similar stuff on Rutcho's pages.
Considering the price, not worth to bother.
I guess independent measurements are always a good idea.
Frankly, looking at it, its nothing different or special. Typical high efficiency full range with all the warts. I see similar stuff on Rutcho's pages.
Considering the price, not worth to bother.
Of course. It's a relatively conventional 8in whizzer cone wideband as far as cone type / topology is concerned. Some are better than others on this front, but they're rarely going to be stellar. If you want measured excellence as it's usually classed, a Satori tweeter for e.g. is usually going to beat it, aside from having a slightly more limited BW. 😉 By & large they tend to be aimed at buyers with a different set of priorities though.
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The distributor seems to feel that the newer cone design in F8 Neo is much improved and I wonder if it is smoother. Still looking for 3rd party measurement of that driver.
I'm trying to get a handle on just why this driver is just so#&@!@^ expensive! Upon my own research trying to design a new motor design, I think I found one aspect of this driver that might shed some insight onto this driver.
My "new design" is to have an Nd magnet assembly of six inches in diameter, a "hole" of four inches inside for the pole-piece & VC. This magnet ring is to be two inches thick...built up from four 6" by 1/2" pieces. Drawing up my design, the $186 US dollar price of one of the four magnets(almost $800 total) had me rethinking things. But as I perused thru the smaller versions, the pricing crashes. Those cool looking little silver Nd pill magnets we see here? $ 1.83 each at 3/8" by one-inch.
Still looking for the reasons of the outrageous pricing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Rick......
My "new design" is to have an Nd magnet assembly of six inches in diameter, a "hole" of four inches inside for the pole-piece & VC. This magnet ring is to be two inches thick...built up from four 6" by 1/2" pieces. Drawing up my design, the $186 US dollar price of one of the four magnets(almost $800 total) had me rethinking things. But as I perused thru the smaller versions, the pricing crashes. Those cool looking little silver Nd pill magnets we see here? $ 1.83 each at 3/8" by one-inch.
Still looking for the reasons of the outrageous pricing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Rick......
One word: Veblen.
Also, production quantities are probably quite small and these essentially look hand made. Just labor and materials on a hand made driver with this much CNC work and touch-work I would say they cost circa $1500 to make. 3x markup for retail to cover overhead and profit is not unexpected. They simply don’t crank out 50,000 units at a time like Vifa or Tangband.
Also, production quantities are probably quite small and these essentially look hand made. Just labor and materials on a hand made driver with this much CNC work and touch-work I would say they cost circa $1500 to make. 3x markup for retail to cover overhead and profit is not unexpected. They simply don’t crank out 50,000 units at a time like Vifa or Tangband.
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Conspicuous consumption...I thought so..AKA, Snake oil.
------------------------------------------------------------------Rick.........
------------------------------------------------------------------Rick.........