Thanks..I believe it is actually a cheap drive..it must be, they were too embarrassed to put their logo on the front...mr-mac said:
jsa_ind said:
A mix. The words are pulled from a textbook on steel processing, but not pulled correctly.
Pure elements contain no carbon. Nor do a lot of compounds.
If that came from one source, the source is incorrect.
serengetiplains said:
Of course....my bad..😉
Cheers, John
jsa_ind said:
I'm not qualified to answer the question about the effect of time on the amount of stress produced, but the mismatches would still exist.
My next question was to be "what is supposed to be occuring when you treat an object?".
The quote above does take a stab at putting a technical spin on what might be happening and a bit of research will tell if we have another Bybee style explaination. At least there is a solid measurable/sonic difference with the bybee devices.
Any physical change that is occuring through the cryo treatments should be measurable and reproducable. To get back to the beginning, I would not waste my money without a decent explaination, and a believeable demonstration.
There's too much real science out there these days.
Mike
jsa_ind said:
Oh, forgot to answer this.
Thermal shock has several parts.
1. TCE mismatch (or cte)..that is the rate at which things contract as they get colder. Aluminum and copper are good examples, if you bond two flat plates together with glue, then as the composite cools down, the aluminum will shrink more, causing the pair to bow. It will spin on a flat surface if you put it copper down. At some point, the glue may fail.
2. diffusivity rates.. All materials have heat capacity as well as thermal conductivity, diffusivity is the speed that heat can transfer within the bulk of the material.. If you take a foot cube block of unfilled epoxy into liquid nitrogen, the outer surface will cool on contact, the inner volume will only cool by conduction of the inside heat to the outside. In the meantime, the outer surface is trying to shrink. Eventually, the outer surface will begin to craze if the inner volume cannot keep up, sometimes it will shatter violently... If you go really slowly in the cooldown rate, it is possible to get the thing to 77K. Warmup has the same issues. A filled epoxy, like 2850 kt from Emerson and Cuming, you can drop the block directly into liquid nitrogen from a 150C oven. Been there, done that. No cracks, no crazing..nuttin but lots a boilin. Reason? Low expansion co, and lots of conductivity for transferring heat. Use this stuff for all my cryo apps.
Solders have to take the strain of expansion mismatches without failing..sometimes, it ain't good.
Some insulations on wires, if they have been bent to shape during manu, will break when they are cooled down.
So, some things simply will not survive cryo, others will.
Cheers, John
All matter does however contain phlogiston...
Now... I don't often correct our neutron (little need)... but, I do believe that the element carbon, in all of its forms, contains at least some amount of carbon.
🙄
Now... I don't often correct our neutron (little need)... but, I do believe that the element carbon, in all of its forms, contains at least some amount of carbon.
🙄
Thanks a million guys for so willingly helping me out.
I have learnt so much from you guys !
I saw that video on Discovery....now they want to add pulsating electrometric fields & ultra sonic vibrations to -300 cooling, they say the performance increases further !!! 🙂
I have learnt so much from you guys !
I saw that video on Discovery....now they want to add pulsating electrometric fields & ultra sonic vibrations to -300 cooling, they say the performance increases further !!! 🙂
Putting your CD's in the oven (or the microwave) WILL make them worse.
Even John will agree that freezing them will make them better... its only logical...
😎
Even John will agree that freezing them will make them better... its only logical...
😎
years ago.....
When I had a speaker company in Calgary we merged with Ed Meitners company. Ed had a cryo chamber and so I go interested in the whole thing (this was 88-89). Ed was working closely with Analog Devices at that time. They sent us a number of thier most popular audiophile DAC's for us to cryo treat. They then sent them out to all thier big customers in evaluation packages which included the same DAC non cryo treated and another version that they thought would be better than the others. This was done with little or no fanfair just requesting evaluation of prototypes. You guessed it the cryo dac was the first choice with the new DAC second and the non cryo version third. The same year Ed treated a whole Porshe turbo for the Rothman's Porshe team in Montreal they were amazed at the reduction in lag time and its speed in developing full boost. I have lots of other interesting stories like these. When you do things like that and have personal experience with something like this well sometimes these debates can get a little old. If you like it great if you don't that's great too it will leave more room in the tank for my stuff. Regards Moray James.
When I had a speaker company in Calgary we merged with Ed Meitners company. Ed had a cryo chamber and so I go interested in the whole thing (this was 88-89). Ed was working closely with Analog Devices at that time. They sent us a number of thier most popular audiophile DAC's for us to cryo treat. They then sent them out to all thier big customers in evaluation packages which included the same DAC non cryo treated and another version that they thought would be better than the others. This was done with little or no fanfair just requesting evaluation of prototypes. You guessed it the cryo dac was the first choice with the new DAC second and the non cryo version third. The same year Ed treated a whole Porshe turbo for the Rothman's Porshe team in Montreal they were amazed at the reduction in lag time and its speed in developing full boost. I have lots of other interesting stories like these. When you do things like that and have personal experience with something like this well sometimes these debates can get a little old. If you like it great if you don't that's great too it will leave more room in the tank for my stuff. Regards Moray James.
I am still drinking all this in...could you please advise if pulsating electrometric fields & ultra sonic vibrations to -300 cooling improves performance further ?
I'm just curious whether or not Arrhenius's Law has been repealed?
I designed a test for cryo'd tubes, but still haven't received them yet.
I designed a test for cryo'd tubes, but still haven't received them yet.
Re: years ago.....
So,,, as part of all of these experiments was there any discussion as to what might be going on? There seems to have been a considerable number of smart people involved and, from experience, most experiments are performed to answer a question or two, which in this case would seem to be: how does this work and how can we control the effect.
I'm not hearing anything along these lines in the discussions about cryo- treating and I'm always skeptical of concepts that seem to work equilly well for all applications.
What are we to make of Analog Devices lack of fanfare over the process 15 years later? If it was a boon to semiconductor manufacturing I would know about it because this is my world.
My question are because I'm curious more than any other reason.
Also, since you were involved in some experiments was there a formal of informal process that was used? I have access to LN2 and could possibly "treat" a device or two if its reasonable.
Thanks, Mike.
moray james said:
So,,, as part of all of these experiments was there any discussion as to what might be going on? There seems to have been a considerable number of smart people involved and, from experience, most experiments are performed to answer a question or two, which in this case would seem to be: how does this work and how can we control the effect.
I'm not hearing anything along these lines in the discussions about cryo- treating and I'm always skeptical of concepts that seem to work equilly well for all applications.
What are we to make of Analog Devices lack of fanfare over the process 15 years later? If it was a boon to semiconductor manufacturing I would know about it because this is my world.
My question are because I'm curious more than any other reason.
Also, since you were involved in some experiments was there a formal of informal process that was used? I have access to LN2 and could possibly "treat" a device or two if its reasonable.
Thanks, Mike.
I find the account re AD entirely unbelievable...
1) AD has no cryo toys?
2) AD would allow something this monumental (and cheap) to be handled by a third party?
3) AD has no toys for testing and would rely on the opinions of customers as to the quality of their devices?
4) All our AD chips are cryo'd and we just don't know it?
Should we push this through Delphion and see how many cryo patents are assigned to AD?
What the hell is an electrometric field anyway?
I need more coffee.
1) AD has no cryo toys?
2) AD would allow something this monumental (and cheap) to be handled by a third party?
3) AD has no toys for testing and would rely on the opinions of customers as to the quality of their devices?
4) All our AD chips are cryo'd and we just don't know it?
Should we push this through Delphion and see how many cryo patents are assigned to AD?
What the hell is an electrometric field anyway?
I need more coffee.
Poobah,
What's the max safe time to run the microwave for, and do I need to put a glass of water in with the CD?
What's the max safe time to run the microwave for, and do I need to put a glass of water in with the CD?
About 20 seconds usually has the desired effect on CD's.
Now take a potato and cut 1/2" off one end. Place the cutting flat side down in the cener of the microwave. Insert a toothpick upright in the potato. Light the the upper end of the toothpick (small fire). Now close the door and throw the microwave on high.
Enjoy!
🙂
Now take a potato and cut 1/2" off one end. Place the cutting flat side down in the cener of the microwave. Insert a toothpick upright in the potato. Light the the upper end of the toothpick (small fire). Now close the door and throw the microwave on high.
Enjoy!
🙂
Poohba
You just have to be wrong. I just installed my new audiophile grade fuses in my amplifier and the distortion decreased 100%
it is clear to me that these specially treated tubes are just as much a bargin. I wouldn't be surprised if the distortion lowered even more as a result of using them. You can just hear the difference. I have noticed however that the performance is even greater if you preheat the tubes with a torch prior to turning on the power.
You just have to be wrong. I just installed my new audiophile grade fuses in my amplifier and the distortion decreased 100%
it is clear to me that these specially treated tubes are just as much a bargin. I wouldn't be surprised if the distortion lowered even more as a result of using them. You can just hear the difference. I have noticed however that the performance is even greater if you preheat the tubes with a torch prior to turning on the power.
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