I own a set of Vandersteen 2Ce Signatures. I just purchased a Vandersteen Model 2W subwoofer on eBay. It has not yet arrived, but I’ve been doing some reading, and it appears that I will need a pair of in-line crossover between the preamp and the sub. Apparently Vandersteen supplied these with the product, but they are now scarce and expensive.
Apparently, the Vandersteen x-overs were variable according to the input impedance of the amplifier. This is confusing to me. Since the sub is self-powered, I would assume that any relationship between the sub's amplifier and the preamp should be handled without an external device. If the amplifier in question is the amp that is powering the main speakers, then I’m also confused – but I’m often wrong. (FWIW, the input impedance of my main amp (PSA BHK 250) is 50K single ended and 100K balanced.)
I happened to notice a set of line of in-line crossovers from Harrison Labs (https://www.hlabs.com/products/crossovers/). The only variable with them seems to be the crossover frequency - not the input impedance of any amp.
I wonder if these crossovers would meet my requirements. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Apparently, the Vandersteen x-overs were variable according to the input impedance of the amplifier. This is confusing to me. Since the sub is self-powered, I would assume that any relationship between the sub's amplifier and the preamp should be handled without an external device. If the amplifier in question is the amp that is powering the main speakers, then I’m also confused – but I’m often wrong. (FWIW, the input impedance of my main amp (PSA BHK 250) is 50K single ended and 100K balanced.)
I happened to notice a set of line of in-line crossovers from Harrison Labs (https://www.hlabs.com/products/crossovers/). The only variable with them seems to be the crossover frequency - not the input impedance of any amp.
I wonder if these crossovers would meet my requirements. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
If the original crossover was passive at line level, then the input impedance of the amp can affect things. More so if it's extreme.
The FMods are cheap and easy enough that they are worth a try. I think they are 12 dB/octave, while the one from Vandersteen looks like it was 6 dB/octave. Though their page/manual also talks about using an AV processor, which would also have a steeper slope.
https://www.hlabs.com/products/crossovers/index_files/Page446.htm
"The color ring indicates Hlabs standard crossover frequency (-3db point)
There is an 8%(LP) / 25%(HP) frequency increase at 10K ohms and 8%(LP) / 15%(HP) frequency decrease at 47K ohm load. Otherwise all color design values of crossover frequencies are standardized at 22k ohms. Keep in mind that exact crossover frequencies are seldom noticed or necessary.
20hz black bands (25hz @ 10K / 17hz @ 47K)
30hz 2 black bands (37hz @ 10K / 26hz @ 47K)
50hz brown band (54hz @ 10K / 46hz @ 47K) (62hz @ 10K / 43hz @ 47K)
70hz purple band (76hz @ 10K / 65hz @ 47K) (87hz @ 10K / 60hz @ 47K)
100hz has no band (108hz @ 10K / 92hz @ 47K) (125hz @ 10K / 85hz @ 47K)
150hz 2 blue bands (162hz @ 10K / 138hz @ 47K) (187hz @ 10K / 128hz @ 47K)
200hz blue band (216hz @ 10K / 184hz @ 47K) (250hz @ 10K / 170hz @ 47K)
300hz 2 white bands (375hz @ 10K / 255hz @ 47K)
500hz white band (540hz @ 10K / 460hz @ 47K) (625hz @ 10K / 425hz @ 47K)
1000hz light blue band (1080hz @ 10K / 920hz @ 47K) (1250hz @ 10K / 850hz @ 47K)
2500hz light green band (2700hz @ 10K / 2300hz @ 47K) (3125hz @ 10K / 2125hz @ 47K)
3500hz gray band (3780hz @ 10K / 3220hz @ 47K) (4375hz @ 10K / 2975hz @ 47K)
6500hz orange band (7020hz @ 10K / 5980hz @ 47K) (8125hz @ 10K / 5525hz @ 47K)"
The FMods are cheap and easy enough that they are worth a try. I think they are 12 dB/octave, while the one from Vandersteen looks like it was 6 dB/octave. Though their page/manual also talks about using an AV processor, which would also have a steeper slope.
https://www.hlabs.com/products/crossovers/index_files/Page446.htm
"The color ring indicates Hlabs standard crossover frequency (-3db point)
There is an 8%(LP) / 25%(HP) frequency increase at 10K ohms and 8%(LP) / 15%(HP) frequency decrease at 47K ohm load. Otherwise all color design values of crossover frequencies are standardized at 22k ohms. Keep in mind that exact crossover frequencies are seldom noticed or necessary.
20hz black bands (25hz @ 10K / 17hz @ 47K)
30hz 2 black bands (37hz @ 10K / 26hz @ 47K)
50hz brown band (54hz @ 10K / 46hz @ 47K) (62hz @ 10K / 43hz @ 47K)
70hz purple band (76hz @ 10K / 65hz @ 47K) (87hz @ 10K / 60hz @ 47K)
100hz has no band (108hz @ 10K / 92hz @ 47K) (125hz @ 10K / 85hz @ 47K)
150hz 2 blue bands (162hz @ 10K / 138hz @ 47K) (187hz @ 10K / 128hz @ 47K)
200hz blue band (216hz @ 10K / 184hz @ 47K) (250hz @ 10K / 170hz @ 47K)
300hz 2 white bands (375hz @ 10K / 255hz @ 47K)
500hz white band (540hz @ 10K / 460hz @ 47K) (625hz @ 10K / 425hz @ 47K)
1000hz light blue band (1080hz @ 10K / 920hz @ 47K) (1250hz @ 10K / 850hz @ 47K)
2500hz light green band (2700hz @ 10K / 2300hz @ 47K) (3125hz @ 10K / 2125hz @ 47K)
3500hz gray band (3780hz @ 10K / 3220hz @ 47K) (4375hz @ 10K / 2975hz @ 47K)
6500hz orange band (7020hz @ 10K / 5980hz @ 47K) (8125hz @ 10K / 5525hz @ 47K)"
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Hello everyone I recently finished a studio monitor project and i am struggling to find the crossover points of the PMC mb2s Xbd monitors witch my monitors are deigned around. I am using DSP Hypex amps to model the filters . But would be great if i could find out the original frequency's of the PMC speakers .
thanks..
thanks..
Attachments
Hi speakerBob, PMC was one of the first places I checked. My original information on the build was from DiyAudio and everyone has been most helpful over the years, and this last bit of information would finally get me over the finish line. I did at one point directly email PMC but naturally they were not very forthcoming . All the very best Bob
Thanks BoB but I was looking for some sort of visual frequency graph to copy that into my filters. excuse my ignorance , I am grate with hands construction but totally useless when it come to this side of the work.. With the 4 way crossover system i have just started with the speakers manufacturers infomation .. Thats as far as ive got.. Thanks again.
Is this the sort of graph you are looking for? This one is comprised of Linkwitz-Riley filters: a 2nd-order LP filter on the woofer section, a 2nd-order HP filter and 2nd-order LP filter on the midrange, and a 2nd-order HP filter on the tweeter. Note that the polarity of the midrange driver is reversed in order to get the correct summation to a flat response. The crossover frequencies are chosen to be 380Hz and 3800Hz, and the summation (black line) is quite flat. Of course, the natural frequency responses of each of your drivers will come into play, but hopefully this will help to get you started.
The Harrison site says ACCURACY ± 1% @ 22KΩ LOAD. That's because the crossover frequency of the passive FMods will change due to the load splitting between the monitor amp and the sub amp.
I would highly recommend using a miniDSP 2x4 between the preamp and sub amp rather than the FMods, with the mains running full range. A DSP solution will allow you to select whatever crossover frequency and slope you want, and allow room and speaker corrections easily using the freeware Room EQ Wizard. I have used FMods, as well as Marchand active and passive crossovers and nothing came close to what I was able to achieve with the very inexpensive miniDSP/REW solution.
You have bought an excellent set of drivers, I have heard PMC's they were extremely good. (powered by Bryston amps)
You owe it to yourself to buy a measuring mic and work with actual graphs from the speakers you have put all that hard work into.
Bob.
Hay once again thank you all and "Bob" so much, its reassuring that there are people here to help , Ive stated the crossover filter work and the results are very promising at the moment. The drivers are absolutely spot on , the only thing letting them down is me . But sounding good at the moment, im sure ill be tweaking for the next few weeks.
. I have sound id sonarworks Bod so ill be using that once i streamline my room more . I will send link so you can check out the audio once ive finished ..
. I have sound id sonarworks Bod so ill be using that once i streamline my room more . I will send link so you can check out the audio once ive finished ..Attachments
Hi, so I have a bit of a frankenstein set up , for the 3 way i am using 2 Hypex 503 and for the subs lab gruppen ipd 1200 witch has the DSP , i am using one of the Genelec sub settings and tweaking that between 80 and 30hz although Volt say 27hz .. Ayway once things are up and running ill pop back and send you all a link so you can give me some feeed back.. Many Thanks