Crossover help please for a super tweeter using the Satori AT60NC-4 AMT Tweeter

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#2
That unit is a tweeter rather than a super tweeter; the difference being it has a lower crossover point and a reduced off axis response in the higher frequencies compared to a "super" tweeter.

You would need to provide info on what the super tweeter is crossing too and the baffle you are mounting it on
 
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#4
I apologize I didnt give enough details.
So this would be mounted on its own baffle. On top of an existing speaker.
The speaker in question is a Tannoy Arden. I have listened to a demo of the new Tannoy Super tweeters and thought they really added some extra revelation to the sound.
Tannoy Supertweeter for Prestige GR Loudspeakers (each) – Upscale Audio

I am hoping to build something similar. If this isnt the right tweeter for this application, can someone recommend what might work best ?
 
#5
A few things to take note off to select the right tweeter. Normally the selection asks for a very small tweeter for better of axis response. Typically 1/2 inch for domes as well as high sensitivity in the 10-20kHz region.

You didn't mention which speaker you are pairing with but if pairing with Tannoy, you would want a tweeter of about 95db efficiency at 10-20kHz to match that speaker. Unfortunately there us not much tweeter with that kind of efficiency. And even fewer that publishes off axis response.

I have used this and pretty cheap and good

Visaton SC5
Visaton DTW72

For ribbons, you can consider

Fountek neo 1.0 or 3.0 CD

Fountek NeoCD3.0 Ribbon Tweeter Black

They have better off axis response and sensitivity than satori AMT in the 10-20kHz region.

Hope that helps

Ideally use a second order or more crossover on the tweeters

Oon
 
#6
Does the off axis response matter if I am always listening on axis ? Since you brought up Visaton, thoughts on Visaton TL 16 H Horn tweeter ? Seems like this unit has the needed efficiency and is highly rated ?

I will be pairing this with the Tannoy legacy Arden.
 
#7
Yea it will matter because of the late reflections back from the walls. Just because you don’t measure it on axis it doesn’t mean it is not there. And if it’s there it is audible.

Horn tweeter has more chance of success because of the constrained dispersion which will match closer to the woofer
 
#9
A ribbon has dispersion based on the footprint of the diaphragm ie the ribbon. A tall but narrow (width) ribbon makes a vertically narrow dispersion pattern but a horizontally very wide dispersion pattern. So it is inversely proportional to the dimensions of the ribbon or radiating area in general
 
#11
Have we defined a purpose for this tweeter, and decided whether it needs to cross or blend in order to achieve that? It would seem difficult to have a conversation without knowing what 'super' means in this case.
 
#12
@AllenB, I had auditioned the new Tannoy Super tweeters at a dealership pared with Ardens

Tannoy Supertweeter for Prestige GR Loudspeakers (each) – Upscale Audio

Since then I had been wanting to get something similar or close but not at 4000 USD for a pair.

So I am asking the community what they would do if they were to build something that competes with the Tannoy unit.

The tannoy unit has a built in crossover and I believe it blends in with 3 different user selectable points

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1...GO_P0DEW_Detail2_L_2048x2048.png?v=1583879359
 
#13
w2olves... either you do something serious which includes the ability to do measurement and interpret them including an idea of what kind of result/integration is desired wrt to FR, dispersion and time/phase. A tweeter inserted with a first order XO at 10kHz has still a contribution of only -12 dB down at 2,5 kHz - this is most probably what you hear rather than a contribution at 14-18kHz. So maybe some EQ is a better way of improving the sound. It was from this position I suggested a 4uF cap in series with the AMT. Try it and see!? Anything beyond this ambition and to be made correct, is quite advanced actually.

Now I see that the lowest for that product is 14kHz. Just calculate: 4uf/k->10kHz*k - - - k=1,4 -> 2,8uF->14kHz ... (smaller cap->higher Xo)

//
 
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#15
So the purpose of this tweeter is to add more treble, and to do so by putting it in more places at once, thereby increasing the spacious aspect of the treble by bouncing it off more walls?

Not to simply make more treble, which you could also do by EQing with the standard tweeter.

And not to improve the treble by making it come out of a fine unit, which would involve crossing to the other tweeter removing its top end?
 
#16
It's easier 🙂 So you do want to do something more advanced. Well, then you need to dig up all the info; impedance trace. FR. Directivity. And have an idea what you want to accomplish. There is no in-between because that would just be a lot of guessing. There is the "try" and there is the "do right"... Whatsgonnabe? 😉

//
 
#17
@AllenB, adding EQ on the Ardens, did not make it sound better than the Ardens with Super Tweeter, if anything it made it sound whiney. So the goal here is definitely improving the treble, not more emphasis or added loudness to the treble. Removing the top end from the main unit is feasible. Thoughts ?

@TNT I would like to do this right just keep my budget at less than 1K. I feel like there is enough community knowledge here that it can be done.
 
#18
I have another question for the audio masters, I will be moving to Poland for a couple of years, from USA next month. I am planning to take the Arden drivers with, leave the cabinets behind. Too many other heavy items to take.
I have access to an excellent carpenter who will build me high quality cabinets, however my wife's request is make the cabinets slimmer.
So lets say I keep the same internal volume but reduce the width of the cabinet to what the drivers would allow, would I lose anything sonically ? I feel like I wouldnt but I am curious if anyone has any opinions.
What about the ports ? If the ports were in the rear, would they make a perceptible difference ? Considering the speakers will be close to the wall ?

Attached is a pic of my current set up for those not familiar with Ardens.

Thanks a lot for your thoughts
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.



ardens.jpg - Google Drive
 
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#19
Ok, so the two options are..
1. Add more treble by blending the supertweeter but EQ the total back to where you were at the start.

2. Cross to the supertweeter..each tweeter plays on its own in part of the treble region.

You suggest option 2, and this may be a worthy option. You will face the fact that the tweeters are separated in space, making it less easy for you to make the connection between them for one reason or another. This could potentially be made easier by crossing rather high where it's more difficult to tell.

However it also begs the question.. Why not just change to a single tweeter which you like? Not saying you have to do that, just trying to help you put the puzzle together.
 
#20
@AllenB, the more I think of it, the more open I am to changing to a single tweeter. So lets say I build a low pass for the existing Ardens, say cut off at 14K and then a highpass of 14K and add a tweeter, does that sound feasible ? What tweeter would you recommend ?
 
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