I would definitely trust your opinion since its obvious you have more experience than I. I was looking to build flatish-response speakers on a budget, but even the Classix II build lacks mids (based on his review and reviews). So If I can ditch these drivers(can sell the DC160s to a friend), would you recommend another proven kit that is close to having a flat-reponse? the only reason I choose the DC160s was that even as a 2-way it can go so low I wouldn't need a subwoofer, but wouldn't mind adding a subwoofer for the better overall sound.
Thank you for this much effort, I was truly going for cheap and cheerful indeed!
QUOTE: I was looking to build flatish-response speakers on a budget, but even the Classix II build lacks mids.. would you recommend another proven kit that is close to having a flat-reponse?
Thank you for the kind words, but my opinion is just an opinion, of course. I've also realised that I don't have the equipment or expertise to design speakers.
Your question raises more questions which you'll need to think about for people to better advise you:
music preferences and listening level?
room size?
budget?
can you build cabinets, or will you need to buy a 'kit' which includes knock down cabinets?
where do you live (affects shipping costs and what brands you can buy)?
what power output is your amp?
You might want to start a new thread and include comments on those questions so that members can advise you better: you will get more replies that way. There are also several threads on this Forum which are well worth a look. There are many commercially produced 'kits', but DIY designers will give you a Bill of Materials (BoM) which lists what you need to buy, plus cabinet dimensions and crossover schematic. So you get a 'virtual kit'.
Your music preferences are really important: for example, I like the Classix for old LPs and less well recorded or mixed music: think early Beatles or Dylan, or older classical music. I wouldn't say the speaker 'lack' mid range, but it is relaxed and smooth, so my ears don't get tired after hours of listening. Bass is excellent for normal listening levels.
For jazz and classics, I prefer Curt Campbell's Tritrix MTMs (vented, not transmission line), there's just a bit more detail to the mids, but the bass doesn't dig quite as deep. The transmission line version, which most people build, will play deeper and have been built by many, many happy people.
Our main 'reference' speakers are Curt's Slapshot MTMs but they would cost around A$800 in parts.
Whatever options you consider , look for a speaker which has been widely built and well reviewed. There are some fine speakers which don't fall into that category, but as you can't listen to them or read reviews, you're a little in the dark. For example, I've done a test build of Michael Chua's "Lark" (SB16pfc woofer and Vifa BC25 tweeter), which sound really nice and we also have a 5" two way (Peerless 830656 and that BC25 yet again) designed by Ralf Giralfino on this Forum, also good. We have enough speakers.......
As for 'flat response', there is much debate about that! IMHO, suffice it to say that neither the Classix nor the Tritrix have 'ruler flat response', but they sound fine. Paul Carmody's "Hitmakers" 2 ways use the same tweeter as the Classix and the Dayton DA175, but were designed as studio monitors with a flat response, they reportedly sound great too.
You're spoiled for choice and may end up a little confused but that's all part of the journey.
Good luck!
Geoff
Thank you for the kind words, but my opinion is just an opinion, of course. I've also realised that I don't have the equipment or expertise to design speakers.
Your question raises more questions which you'll need to think about for people to better advise you:
music preferences and listening level?
room size?
budget?
can you build cabinets, or will you need to buy a 'kit' which includes knock down cabinets?
where do you live (affects shipping costs and what brands you can buy)?
what power output is your amp?
You might want to start a new thread and include comments on those questions so that members can advise you better: you will get more replies that way. There are also several threads on this Forum which are well worth a look. There are many commercially produced 'kits', but DIY designers will give you a Bill of Materials (BoM) which lists what you need to buy, plus cabinet dimensions and crossover schematic. So you get a 'virtual kit'.
Your music preferences are really important: for example, I like the Classix for old LPs and less well recorded or mixed music: think early Beatles or Dylan, or older classical music. I wouldn't say the speaker 'lack' mid range, but it is relaxed and smooth, so my ears don't get tired after hours of listening. Bass is excellent for normal listening levels.
For jazz and classics, I prefer Curt Campbell's Tritrix MTMs (vented, not transmission line), there's just a bit more detail to the mids, but the bass doesn't dig quite as deep. The transmission line version, which most people build, will play deeper and have been built by many, many happy people.
Our main 'reference' speakers are Curt's Slapshot MTMs but they would cost around A$800 in parts.
Whatever options you consider , look for a speaker which has been widely built and well reviewed. There are some fine speakers which don't fall into that category, but as you can't listen to them or read reviews, you're a little in the dark. For example, I've done a test build of Michael Chua's "Lark" (SB16pfc woofer and Vifa BC25 tweeter), which sound really nice and we also have a 5" two way (Peerless 830656 and that BC25 yet again) designed by Ralf Giralfino on this Forum, also good. We have enough speakers.......
As for 'flat response', there is much debate about that! IMHO, suffice it to say that neither the Classix nor the Tritrix have 'ruler flat response', but they sound fine. Paul Carmody's "Hitmakers" 2 ways use the same tweeter as the Classix and the Dayton DA175, but were designed as studio monitors with a flat response, they reportedly sound great too.
You're spoiled for choice and may end up a little confused but that's all part of the journey.
Good luck!
Geoff
Last edited:
Thank you so much Geoff for your input, today after checking some of Paul Carmody's builds, I have decided to build the Classix II, since I already have the woofers and I'll try to get my hands on the BC25T tweeters and buy all the crossover parts. Have seen couple of your comments about the Classix II around, pretty convinced thats the right move (regarding cash) at the moment.
Wanted an accurate studio monitors for mixing but maybe I can make Paul's Hitmakers later in the future!
Thanks again!
Good luck with your build, I'm sure you will enjoy the Classix II.
If you've looked at Paul's other designs, he's also done a TMM Classix 2.5 which would be useful for larger rooms, you just have to buy two more of the DC160s and some extra XO parts - they're on my 'to build' list. I have all the parts but no excuse to build them at the moment.
Depending where you live, you could place a 'wanted' advert for the BC25 tweeters and see how you go: I have a spare pair but the post cost from Oz would prohibitive, assuming you live elsewhere.
New units are available here:
BC25TG15-04 Peerless By Tymphany 1" Silk Dome Tweeter | Wagner Online Electronic Stores
but at A$32 plus post, they will kill your budget. You could also try Digikey, although I haven't bought anything from them - Wagner's service is very good but not sure what they charge for overseas delivery.
My Classix were my first go at cabinet making and look pretty awful (att), but it was fun and we enjoy them, which is the main thing. I used speaker grilles as the DC160s are a bit 'clunky' to look at. I think I have some photos of the crossover layout if you 'd find that useful. I strongly suggest using them on stands and don't place them too close to corners, or the bass may get a bit 'muddy'.
Geoff
If you've looked at Paul's other designs, he's also done a TMM Classix 2.5 which would be useful for larger rooms, you just have to buy two more of the DC160s and some extra XO parts - they're on my 'to build' list. I have all the parts but no excuse to build them at the moment.
Depending where you live, you could place a 'wanted' advert for the BC25 tweeters and see how you go: I have a spare pair but the post cost from Oz would prohibitive, assuming you live elsewhere.
New units are available here:
BC25TG15-04 Peerless By Tymphany 1" Silk Dome Tweeter | Wagner Online Electronic Stores
but at A$32 plus post, they will kill your budget. You could also try Digikey, although I haven't bought anything from them - Wagner's service is very good but not sure what they charge for overseas delivery.
My Classix were my first go at cabinet making and look pretty awful (att), but it was fun and we enjoy them, which is the main thing. I used speaker grilles as the DC160s are a bit 'clunky' to look at. I think I have some photos of the crossover layout if you 'd find that useful. I strongly suggest using them on stands and don't place them too close to corners, or the bass may get a bit 'muddy'.
Geoff
Attachments
Last edited:
I have actually seen your build on other forum, pretty awesome! Actually the Classix 2.5 look (and probably sound) so good but they're currently out of my budget!
Unfortunately Oz is way too far from anywhere I could possibly go haha, currently in the Netherlands but even back at the US still too far!
got my DX20 tweeters from Digikey actually but they dont have BC25 in stock 🙁
I have found the BC25s and the crossover components on soundimport but the prices in the EU specially with taxes is crazy, guess I'll have to bite the bullet and buy them anyway.
What about from the UK:
Vifa Peerless BC25TG15-04 Tweeter - Willys-Hifi Ltd
Post might be more reasonable?
I mistakenly bought a pair of BC25TG18-04 tweeters, they look identical and sound the same as the -15s (I swapped them out in another build which uses the -15s) they might have been OEM spares or something like that. You could also try having a look for those online.
Geoff
Vifa Peerless BC25TG15-04 Tweeter - Willys-Hifi Ltd
Post might be more reasonable?
I mistakenly bought a pair of BC25TG18-04 tweeters, they look identical and sound the same as the -15s (I swapped them out in another build which uses the -15s) they might have been OEM spares or something like that. You could also try having a look for those online.
Geoff
Last edited:
Thank you so much for trying to help out!
Actually soundimports seem to be the best option right now, €20/piece and next day delivery!