Ed LaFontaine said:
Well, maximum means what it means - no more. Density will not be exceeded under the unchanged conditions. I merely observe that the introduction of energy will change the temperature condition and therefore reduce density, not increase it.
If that doesn't make sense to you, I don't know how else to put it.
Ed LaFontaine said:
Be careful, you have almost admitted to the compression of water by using those statements.
I think you should re-read what I have posted.
That should be, "I do pretty well..."
It looks as though my optimism about you was a bit, well... optimistic.
What is it with this fixation on posting frequency? I've done more than my share of posting over the years, round and about. Quality over quantity, you know. I am so happy I finally learned not to drive myself to distraction trying to prevail in arguments like this. LOL.
Yes, you did. You just don't realize it.
There are enough clues here for you to straighten this thing out in your head. And an infinitesimal probability that you're right and everyone else is wrong. Now, you just have to hop to it!
Good luck to you, John.
-Henry
Wow, reading this thread has totally made my evening!
I am curious when you're book debunking the entire scientific community's theories about the process of sound waves traveling through a physical medium will be published. I believe it will be equally entertaining to read. Out of curiosity, what education, title, or career do you have that has allowed you to make such discoveries?
Keep up the good fight!
-Justin
I am curious when you're book debunking the entire scientific community's theories about the process of sound waves traveling through a physical medium will be published. I believe it will be equally entertaining to read. Out of curiosity, what education, title, or career do you have that has allowed you to make such discoveries?
Keep up the good fight!
-Justin
Does sound actually travel?
The real question should be..
"Can sound travel in a black hole. After all, don't they have infinite density?"
Maybe what we're all hearing is the summation of all those "strings" vibrating in various ways at the sub atomic level, eh?
John, don't quit your day job...
I used to think your posts were fairly informative and coherent.. but, unfortunately, you've removed all doubt.
John L.
The real question should be..
"Can sound travel in a black hole. After all, don't they have infinite density?"
Maybe what we're all hearing is the summation of all those "strings" vibrating in various ways at the sub atomic level, eh?
John, don't quit your day job...
I used to think your posts were fairly informative and coherent.. but, unfortunately, you've removed all doubt.
John L.
I'm just going to press on and ignore the last few posts as they have nothing in the way of useful information.
I keep saying: "keep an open mind". Also, it helps if you actually try to read and understand what it is I'm saying.
I'll try again.
Imagine, if you will, that you have a material that is fairly dense. It isn't infinitely dense, but it does require a great deal of force to make it more dense, even in a "local" way.
This material is at rest, at a specific temperature under a specific pressure.
Now, examine how sound travels. It is a form of energy that will produce vibration, right down to the molecular level. The energy from our sound wave will make molecules vibrate in our material. Still with me?
The molecules need room to move. The problem is that the energy (or force) from the sound wave is not enough to push the molecules closer together in this material. It tries to push molecules closer together, as in compression, but it can not as there isn't enough force. What it does instead is displaces the molecules around it (like getting in a tub that is too full, water overflows - that is displacement). This takes a lot less force.
Now we have the "compression" part of the sound wave exciting the molecules in our material, making them move, vibrate rapidly. The increased activity, under the relatively unchanged condition (temp, pressure) translate to a region of high pressure in our material. This is "seen" as a cluster of rapidly vibrating molecules.
Along comes the "rarefaction" part of the sound wave. This tries to reduce density within our material, but it also lacks the force necessary to accomplish that. Instead, it pulls back on our excited molecules. The result of this is a region on low pressure within our material. This would appear as an area of relatively still molecules.
As the sound wave travels through the material, it loses energy in the form of heat. Given the small amount of energy the sound wave has in the first place, this will not be very much heat. BUT heat is heat and it will effect a temperature change. When energy is dissipated in any material, heat is produced.
What happens to any material when it gets warmer? I won't wait around for a sensible answer, but give it now myself: as the material gets warmer, it's molecular activity goes up (more vibration). This equates to a lower density per unit volume. Admittedly, this will be a very slight decrease in density, as the temperature increase would be slight as well.
I ask you - what is so ridiculous about what I am saying here? I dare anyone to read with understanding what I have written above and tell me what I'm saying isn't plausible.
I keep saying: "keep an open mind". Also, it helps if you actually try to read and understand what it is I'm saying.
I'll try again.
Imagine, if you will, that you have a material that is fairly dense. It isn't infinitely dense, but it does require a great deal of force to make it more dense, even in a "local" way.
This material is at rest, at a specific temperature under a specific pressure.
Now, examine how sound travels. It is a form of energy that will produce vibration, right down to the molecular level. The energy from our sound wave will make molecules vibrate in our material. Still with me?
The molecules need room to move. The problem is that the energy (or force) from the sound wave is not enough to push the molecules closer together in this material. It tries to push molecules closer together, as in compression, but it can not as there isn't enough force. What it does instead is displaces the molecules around it (like getting in a tub that is too full, water overflows - that is displacement). This takes a lot less force.
Now we have the "compression" part of the sound wave exciting the molecules in our material, making them move, vibrate rapidly. The increased activity, under the relatively unchanged condition (temp, pressure) translate to a region of high pressure in our material. This is "seen" as a cluster of rapidly vibrating molecules.
Along comes the "rarefaction" part of the sound wave. This tries to reduce density within our material, but it also lacks the force necessary to accomplish that. Instead, it pulls back on our excited molecules. The result of this is a region on low pressure within our material. This would appear as an area of relatively still molecules.
As the sound wave travels through the material, it loses energy in the form of heat. Given the small amount of energy the sound wave has in the first place, this will not be very much heat. BUT heat is heat and it will effect a temperature change. When energy is dissipated in any material, heat is produced.
What happens to any material when it gets warmer? I won't wait around for a sensible answer, but give it now myself: as the material gets warmer, it's molecular activity goes up (more vibration). This equates to a lower density per unit volume. Admittedly, this will be a very slight decrease in density, as the temperature increase would be slight as well.
I ask you - what is so ridiculous about what I am saying here? I dare anyone to read with understanding what I have written above and tell me what I'm saying isn't plausible.
What you're saying isn't plausible.
Vibration at the molecular level occurs in the infrared.
Then by symmetry, there are corresponding places that have a slight increase in density. Or are you postulating that there's a discontinuity at the average pressure and that whatever forces hold the fluid together are not the commonly understood electrical ones?
Vibration at the molecular level occurs in the infrared.
Then by symmetry, there are corresponding places that have a slight increase in density. Or are you postulating that there's a discontinuity at the average pressure and that whatever forces hold the fluid together are not the commonly understood electrical ones?
Press on,almighty
You can press on all you want.. but you'll still be wrong.
Furthermore, as you seem to rile at the lighthearted mockery of your inaccurate and incorrect understanding, you brazenly mock all those trying to help you understand what actually occurs, rather than what looks like a misguided grade school interpretation of reality.
You seem to want to redefine standard science in terms that fit your model w/o a shred of reference to any substantive information.
If it looks like a troll, I guess.
Bye
John L.
You can press on all you want.. but you'll still be wrong.
Furthermore, as you seem to rile at the lighthearted mockery of your inaccurate and incorrect understanding, you brazenly mock all those trying to help you understand what actually occurs, rather than what looks like a misguided grade school interpretation of reality.
You seem to want to redefine standard science in terms that fit your model w/o a shred of reference to any substantive information.
If it looks like a troll, I guess.
Bye
John L.
Re: Press on,almighty
That seems to be what you are doing here. You haven't made a worthwhile contribution, just flames.
I'm not saying anything that outside the realm of possibility.
Take the time to read my post #107 and like I said, keep an open mind and try to understand what it is I'm saying.
auplater said:
That seems to be what you are doing here. You haven't made a worthwhile contribution, just flames.
I'm not saying anything that outside the realm of possibility.
Take the time to read my post #107 and like I said, keep an open mind and try to understand what it is I'm saying.
SY said:
You are kidding, right? What is vibrating in the air around you when you speak? Dust?
We'll really need to go back to the basics here, I can see that.
EDIT: To avoid confusion, the vibration I was (obviously) talking about is the molecules themselves, not the atoms within the molecules.
Now for something completely different. A demonstration of brute force requirement to accomplish a selected task (yes, compression )
Try this little experiment:
Fill a bottle with a small mouth (say a wine bottle) with water about a half inch from the top. Insert a cork into the bottle until it starts to push the water up, pushing the air out. Keep pushing until the cork is firmly in the neck of the bottle, with a good seal around. Try to push the cork in some more. Use as much force as you dare. You will not be able to push the cork in any further. What you are trying to do is compress the water, and you cannot produce enough force to do this.
Now, remove the cork and empty the bottle into a drinking glass. Put the cork into the water. Take note of how much force is needed to push the cork fully into the water. What? Not much? The only real resistance in this case is the buoyancy of the cork. When you put the cork in the water, it displaces the equivalent amount of water.
This is the difference between the amount of force required to compress something as opposed to displacing it.
)Try this little experiment:
Fill a bottle with a small mouth (say a wine bottle) with water about a half inch from the top. Insert a cork into the bottle until it starts to push the water up, pushing the air out. Keep pushing until the cork is firmly in the neck of the bottle, with a good seal around. Try to push the cork in some more. Use as much force as you dare. You will not be able to push the cork in any further. What you are trying to do is compress the water, and you cannot produce enough force to do this.
Now, remove the cork and empty the bottle into a drinking glass. Put the cork into the water. Take note of how much force is needed to push the cork fully into the water. What? Not much? The only real resistance in this case is the buoyancy of the cork. When you put the cork in the water, it displaces the equivalent amount of water.
This is the difference between the amount of force required to compress something as opposed to displacing it.
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